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rattle after kawa 691v warms up at fly wheel area shes super quiet when first started
#1
W
wheel 520h
W
wheel 520h
kawasaki 691v rattle after motor hot,sounds like fly wheel area at top of motor,only 15 hrs on it,runs great ,is somthing i should be worrid about?,it has 3 year warr on it ,but still bugs me ,put the 520h out to pasture 2 years ago, just use it for shows and snowblower,my mower is the ss5000.and i love it after i shimmed the front wheel clack!
#2
John R
John R
Could be the valves need adjusting, I noticed my Kaw FX730V is starting to make more noise with only about 9 hours on it.
#3
W
wheel 520h
W
wheel 520h
thanks john,ill take it back to dealer,let them listen,just thought some 1 else had same issue and said thats the way they are, heard lots of good things about kawasaki,also heard they need 50 hrs to be broke in?
#4
7394
7394
Yep about 50 hours according to my Dealer. mine has 77 hours on it, & just started hearing a hot only ticking / rattle. It's at the Dealers to check & adjust the valve lash. Just made it in for warranty work.
Been super to this point.
Been super to this point.
#5
7394
7394
And today I double mowed my place to test her out good. Seems good again.
#6
mhavanti
mhavanti
7394,
My FR730V started clattering at the rocker arms with 28 hours on it and really loud when engine oil is hot. Time to adjust the valves although Kawasaki said it doesn't need adjusting until 300 hours.
If the rockers are loose, its time to adjust them both for power and timing.
Dealer's head mechanic says his FX730V has to be adjusted every time he mows tall, wet grass that requires the governor to stay engaged. I told him that shouldn't have a thing to do with valve adjustment other than the engine is heating more than it would without much of a load.
He just replied it has been true in all the Kawasakis they sell but, the Kohlers keep coming back not running due to their auto choke problems. I'll take a running engine over one that won't run. I can make adjustments to solve problems. Such as removing that stupid choke on the Kohler. lol
Good luck,
Max
My FR730V started clattering at the rocker arms with 28 hours on it and really loud when engine oil is hot. Time to adjust the valves although Kawasaki said it doesn't need adjusting until 300 hours.
If the rockers are loose, its time to adjust them both for power and timing.
Dealer's head mechanic says his FX730V has to be adjusted every time he mows tall, wet grass that requires the governor to stay engaged. I told him that shouldn't have a thing to do with valve adjustment other than the engine is heating more than it would without much of a load.
He just replied it has been true in all the Kawasakis they sell but, the Kohlers keep coming back not running due to their auto choke problems. I'll take a running engine over one that won't run. I can make adjustments to solve problems. Such as removing that stupid choke on the Kohler. lol
Good luck,
Max
#7
cpurvis
Loose valve lash affects max lift and duration but has no effect on timing. Peak lift still occurs at the same place.
cpurvis
If the rockers are loose, its time to adjust them both for power and timing.
Loose valve lash affects max lift and duration but has no effect on timing. Peak lift still occurs at the same place.
#8
7394
7394
Dealer told me last Oct that Kawa suggested us (around here) to run 10w-40, so I switched, & when mowing season began so did my oil burning.:thumbdown: Last thing I want is to cake up the combustion chambers.
So I switched back to Kaw 30wt, & it hasn't burned a drop since. They adjusted my valve lash prior to the oil change back, & I think they only got them close, as I hear a tiny tick. Much better than before, but the tick bugs me.
Maybe this winter I will take my time & check & adjust the valve lash as necessary. Otherwise my Kaw is good @ 79.9 hours today.
Max- what weight oil are ya running ?
So I switched back to Kaw 30wt, & it hasn't burned a drop since. They adjusted my valve lash prior to the oil change back, & I think they only got them close, as I hear a tiny tick. Much better than before, but the tick bugs me.
Maybe this winter I will take my time & check & adjust the valve lash as necessary. Otherwise my Kaw is good @ 79.9 hours today.
Max- what weight oil are ya running ?
#9
mhavanti
mhavanti
cpurvis,
Respectfully,
Effectively, once the lash is loose, it does cause the valve not to open as far and for those that doesn't understand that, lift. Duration is a part of timing according to the amount of lift and when it opens and closes (duration) is a part of timing however not related to crankshaft relation to camshaft. Only in relation to the valve opening and closing relative to the piston placement and dwell time over top dead center.
I ground a lot of camshafts, crankshafts and valve relationship opening is what we're talking about. If the valve doesn't open soon enough (far enough) the compression can lock the engine until the compression can leak down enough for the engine to start. But then, you and I know that. Perhaps the fella with the valve lash problem may not.
Max
Respectfully,
Effectively, once the lash is loose, it does cause the valve not to open as far and for those that doesn't understand that, lift. Duration is a part of timing according to the amount of lift and when it opens and closes (duration) is a part of timing however not related to crankshaft relation to camshaft. Only in relation to the valve opening and closing relative to the piston placement and dwell time over top dead center.
I ground a lot of camshafts, crankshafts and valve relationship opening is what we're talking about. If the valve doesn't open soon enough (far enough) the compression can lock the engine until the compression can leak down enough for the engine to start. But then, you and I know that. Perhaps the fella with the valve lash problem may not.
Max
#10
mhavanti
mhavanti
I'm using Shell Rotella T 15/40. It is a mid continent oil that will run in anything and save the motors over pretty much anything else on the market.
My family was in the patroleum industry beginning in 1961 and stayed involved in it until 2004 when we all retired. Shell Rotella T will clean up the inside of an engine and preserve the cross hatch on your cylinders longer than all the other oil on the market as evidenced by many independent laboratories, even to this day including synthetics. I don't run synthetics and if a person wants to pay the price for it, I say go for it. Will it make your engine last longer, answer is no.
You're changing back to the 30W is most likely coincidental to the oil consumption meaning the rings finally seated most likely. Perhaps not, but, as a machinist engine builder, that is my guess. The 30W will heat the engine more quickly due to the heavier weight while the engine oil is cold. That in itself can seat the rings if they were close to finding their home.
Hope your little kawi lasts for at least 1500 hours. Keeping the valves adjusted will help.
Max
My family was in the patroleum industry beginning in 1961 and stayed involved in it until 2004 when we all retired. Shell Rotella T will clean up the inside of an engine and preserve the cross hatch on your cylinders longer than all the other oil on the market as evidenced by many independent laboratories, even to this day including synthetics. I don't run synthetics and if a person wants to pay the price for it, I say go for it. Will it make your engine last longer, answer is no.
You're changing back to the 30W is most likely coincidental to the oil consumption meaning the rings finally seated most likely. Perhaps not, but, as a machinist engine builder, that is my guess. The 30W will heat the engine more quickly due to the heavier weight while the engine oil is cold. That in itself can seat the rings if they were close to finding their home.
Hope your little kawi lasts for at least 1500 hours. Keeping the valves adjusted will help.
Max
#11
cpurvis
Also respectfully, cam timing is defined by the angle between cam lobe centerline and either TDC or BDC of the crankshaft. Engines with variable valve timing can change this angle; fixed cam timing engines, such as lawnmower engines, cannot.
You're right in that excessive valve lash can delay the opening of a valve and cause it to close prematurely, but the angle between those two events is defined as 'duration.' It has nothing to do with cam timing. Peak lift occurs at the same fixed place, regardless of how much or little the valve lash it has. It will be reduced if lash is excessive, increased if valve lash is less than specified. But it occurs at the same, fixed point defined by how the cam is timed to the crankshaft.
http://www.compcams.com/Pages/416/valve-timing-tutorial.aspx
cpurvis
cpurvis,
Respectfully,
Effectively, once the lash is loose, it does cause the valve not to open as far and for those that doesn't understand that, lift. Duration is a part of timing according to the amount of lift and when it opens and closes (duration) is a part of timing however not related to crankshaft relation to camshaft. Only in relation to the valve opening and closing relative to the piston placement and dwell time over top dead center.
I ground a lot of camshafts, crankshafts and valve relationship opening is what we're talking about. If the valve doesn't open soon enough (far enough) the compression can lock the engine until the compression can leak down enough for the engine to start. But then, you and I know that. Perhaps the fella with the valve lash problem may not.
Max
Also respectfully, cam timing is defined by the angle between cam lobe centerline and either TDC or BDC of the crankshaft. Engines with variable valve timing can change this angle; fixed cam timing engines, such as lawnmower engines, cannot.
You're right in that excessive valve lash can delay the opening of a valve and cause it to close prematurely, but the angle between those two events is defined as 'duration.' It has nothing to do with cam timing. Peak lift occurs at the same fixed place, regardless of how much or little the valve lash it has. It will be reduced if lash is excessive, increased if valve lash is less than specified. But it occurs at the same, fixed point defined by how the cam is timed to the crankshaft.
The last thing we will discuss is the difference between intake centerline and lobe separation angle. These two terms are often confused. Even though they have very similar names, they are very different and control different events in the engine. Lobe separation angle is simply what it says. It is the number of degrees separating the peak lift point of the exhaust lobe and the peak point of the intake lobe. This is sometimes referred to as the "lobe center" of the cam, but we prefer to call it the lobe separation angle. This can only be changed when the cam is ground. It makes no difference how you degree the cam in the engine, the lobe separation angle is ground into the cam. The intake centerline, on the other hand, is the position of the centerline, or peak lift point, of the intake lobe in relation to top dead center of the piston. This can be changed by "degreeing" the cam into the engine. Figure 1 shows a normal 270 degree cam. It has a lobe separation of 110°. We show it installed in the engine 4° advanced, or at 106° intake centerline. The light grey curves show the same camshaft installed an additional four degrees advanced, or at 102 degrees intake centerline. You can see how much earlier overlap is taking place and how the intake valve is open a great deal before the piston starts down. This is usually considered as a way to increase bottom end power, but as you can see there is much of the charge pushed out the exhaust, making a less efficient engine. There is a recommended intake centerline installation point on each cam card, and it is important to install the cam at this point. As far as the mechanics of cam degreeing, COMP Cams® has produced a simple, comprehensive video (part #190) that will take you step-by-step through the process.
http://www.compcams.com/Pages/416/valve-timing-tutorial.aspx
#12
mhavanti
mhavanti
cpurvis,
You and I are in the know of how timing is arrived during the 720 degrees of turn for a crankshaft relative to the camshaft, I'm betting others reading our comments do not. At least our fellow readers will now have a better understanding of the camshaft, crankshaft, valve opening points and closing points. Add in lobe centers, lobe spread and we can go on and on.
Good hearing from you. Keep up the good work.
Max
You and I are in the know of how timing is arrived during the 720 degrees of turn for a crankshaft relative to the camshaft, I'm betting others reading our comments do not. At least our fellow readers will now have a better understanding of the camshaft, crankshaft, valve opening points and closing points. Add in lobe centers, lobe spread and we can go on and on.
Good hearing from you. Keep up the good work.
Max
#13
cpurvis
cpurvis
Same to you, Max! It's been a pleasure.
#14
7394
Max-
For the first 2 years of ownership or since I bought it new, I run the 30wt, & never used a drop. When I switched to the Kaw 10w-40 is when oil consumption was evidenced. And only put 15.4 hours on with that oil in mine, this year.
So no not the rings finally seating. I now only have 79.9 hours on it.
I worked in Machine shop at nights many years & still build Harley motors.
Might try the Shell 15/40 next oil change.
7394
I'm using Shell Rotella T 15/40. It is a mid continent oil that will run in anything and save the motors over pretty much anything else on the market.
My family was in the patroleum industry beginning in 1961 and stayed involved in it until 2004 when we all retired. Shell Rotella T will clean up the inside of an engine and preserve the cross hatch on your cylinders longer than all the other oil on the market as evidenced by many independent laboratories, even to this day including synthetics. I don't run synthetics and if a person wants to pay the price for it, I say go for it. Will it make your engine last longer, answer is no.
You're changing back to the 30W is most likely coincidental to the oil consumption meaning the rings finally seated most likely. Perhaps not, but, as a machinist engine builder, that is my guess. The 30W will heat the engine more quickly due to the heavier weight while the engine oil is cold. That in itself can seat the rings if they were close to finding their home.
Hope your little kawi lasts for at least 1500 hours. Keeping the valves adjusted will help.
Max
Max-
For the first 2 years of ownership or since I bought it new, I run the 30wt, & never used a drop. When I switched to the Kaw 10w-40 is when oil consumption was evidenced. And only put 15.4 hours on with that oil in mine, this year.
So no not the rings finally seating. I now only have 79.9 hours on it.
I worked in Machine shop at nights many years & still build Harley motors.
Might try the Shell 15/40 next oil change.
#15
cpurvis
cpurvis
This may be unrelated but I've had consumption problems with 10w-40, too. I had a little 4 cylinder Ranger pickup whose manual said to use 10w-40, which I did. It usually went through a quart every 800 to 1,000 miles. By mistake, I substituted 5w-30 and the oil consumption vanished.
"C" class oils (Rotella, Delvac, Delo, etc.) are required by diesels but work well in gas engines which specify "S" oils as well. Apart from viscosity, which is usually 15w-40, they are very high detergent, with very high TBNs (total base number, with "base" being the opposite of acidic, i.e., alkaline). They do a heck of a good job keeping engines clean.
"C" class oils (Rotella, Delvac, Delo, etc.) are required by diesels but work well in gas engines which specify "S" oils as well. Apart from viscosity, which is usually 15w-40, they are very high detergent, with very high TBNs (total base number, with "base" being the opposite of acidic, i.e., alkaline). They do a heck of a good job keeping engines clean.
#16
7394
7394
Very interesting, one would think the opposite. Thanks for posting this.
I mow normally 30-35 minutes for my place (not counting occasional double mows) & for that quick 1 mow, my cold dip stick used to drop 1/8 inch in that short time.
I would prefer to run a multi-grade to get the oil everywhere quickly after sitting 1 week since last mow. But it won't be anymore 10w-40 for sure.
I'm familiar with the Diesel oils.
I mow normally 30-35 minutes for my place (not counting occasional double mows) & for that quick 1 mow, my cold dip stick used to drop 1/8 inch in that short time.
I would prefer to run a multi-grade to get the oil everywhere quickly after sitting 1 week since last mow. But it won't be anymore 10w-40 for sure.
I'm familiar with the Diesel oils.