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Probably missed something simple...I hope

#1

G

guitfiddler

Hi guys, new guy having some issues with my mower - probably took on a little more than I should have. I really don't have any small engine experience, but I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

There is a bit of background that will probably help figure out what I did, but at this point I can not get the motor to start, the pull cord is difficult to pull and the motor just feels dead - for lack of a better term not like it even wants to to start. The pull cord has been difficult for some time.

Mower is Toro 22" GTS Model 20016 with the Tecumseh LEV 80-120 engine about 9-10 years old poorly maintained

I recently rebuilt the carb a few months ago and I was having an issue of fuel spitting back into the air filter on occasion and engine running poorly - I determined that I likely rebuilt the carb with the needle going the wrong direction and made the correction - the float was new but I double checked it anyway. Engine still ran poorly and I began to get white smoke from the engine after a test run. Did not notice any fuel spitting back into the filter. I did some research and came a across the most likely cause being oil getting into the fuel, I checked the spark plug - less than a year old and found oil on the tip. I decided to drain the oil and gas and replace the gaskets on the carb and the head gasket (about a year ago I pulled the head off and did not replace it). So I ordered the complete gasket kit. Cleaned off the carbon deposits on the inside of the head, piston and valves. (I noticed that the valves did not seat flush with the top but appeared to close completely to the eye), the cylinder appeared to be smooth. The piston did leave a small bit of oil on the cylinder walls which leads me to believe I may need to change the Rings? While doing this I noticed oil stains around the flange - I did not plan on changing this gasket but since it was included it in the kit the "might-as-well" mentality kicked in - this is probably where I went wrong. I opened the housing removed the old gasket, cleaned the housing and re-assembled with the new gasket - the pin from the oil pump came out and the camshaft came out as well. Nothing else inside was pulled. One thing I was not aware of was the timing marks - I know I will have to open it back up and and check those, but the piston and valves closed at the same time so it should not be to far off. New spark plug and air filter. Everything got re-assmebled and there where no left over screws.

I uploaded a PDF of the parts catalog, has the exploded view of the engine on page 10 if it will help.

Thanks in advance any help is most welcome....

- Rich

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  • Toro 6.5 parts.pdf
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#2

M

mullins87

If you say the piston and valves appear to close at the same time, you probably have the cam 180 degrees out of time. If you watch the piston in its bore, it will come up to top dead center twice for every time both valves are closed......in other words, the crankshaft will make two revolutions for every one revolution the camshaft makes. When you pull it apart, look for a mark on the crank and cam, usually a dot or dash, and align those two marks so they are facing each other. If you get this part right, the valves will be in time with the piston.


#3

G

guitfiddler

Thanks Mullins, appreciate the reply. I'll post back afterwards with the results.


#4

R

Rivets

http://www.petthingsnmore.com/Manuals/TecumsehEng4cycleLawnBoy_Manual.PDF

This website has a service manual for your engine. Will help you solve your problem with valve timing. Will watch for a successful outcome. Good luck.


#5

R

Rivets



#6

F

fastback

Definitely sounds like timing. You really want to start there.


#7

G

guitfiddler

Rivets thanks for manuals - been going over them most of the day.

I got the timing lined up and was still not able to get it started, I adjusted the starter timing and carb and got it going - :smile: One thing to note that was different - is that when it started for me earlier I had to pull it several times but every so often the cord would snap out of my hand, I let it idle for awhile and I kept getting a popping sound and an occasional puff of white smoke - very light. I would shut it off , restart it with one pull no issues. Throttle and governor linkage are little sticky - I do need to replace the extension spring.

After about an hour I went back out to start it again and dead as it was the first time - so I am back to square one.

Because of the cord snapping out of my hands the first I am thinking a problem with the recoil assembly?

Thanks again for all the help

- Rich


#8

R

Rivets

If the cord is snapping out of your hand it is NOT the starter spring. My guess is you still have a fuel issue. White smoke puffs usually means water in the fuel. This is what I would do if it c,ame to me. Drain tank and start with fresh fuel. With the issues we are having with ethynal in our fuels, we recommend using either no ethynal or premium fuel when it is worth your while. Ethynal = water attraction = problems. Engine is probably still flooding on start up. Quick lesson. White smoke = water. Black smoke = too much fuel. Blue smoke = oil problems. Take your time and you'll probably figure it out. I've also switched over to SeaFoam as my fuel additive to solve gumming and varnish in the carb problems.


#9

G

guitfiddler

I have a feeling this was something simple....does the blade have to be installed? :ashamed:

Even though it started the other day with out it, as soon as I put it on it started right up.

I also need a new recoil now, the reason the cord was snapping out of my hand was the dogs working their way loose. After a couple of starts they gave up.

Anyone confirm the blade theory, before I put any more money into this thing?

One other thing the fuel issue is back, the tank was just about dry - (I left it about half way full), air filter soaked and the deck wet with fuel. I am thinking just gravity? The float needle not sealing? Any thoughts.


#10

R

Rivets

YES YES YES You must have the blade installed. Also, you are correct in a bad float needle and seat. Simple fix with a rebuild kit.


#11

G

guitfiddler

lol...I am such a knucklehead!! I could had this thing done a week ago.

Thanks for the help!!


#12

R

Rivets

Let me know if you get it running. I need a confidence builder.


#13

G

guitfiddler

Got it going...new starter installed - ignition adjusted...also figured out the problem with the carb. When I rebuilt it I installed the inlet needle seat backwards :rolleyes:

Runs good, see if I can get another 8 or 9 years out of it.

Thanks for all the help!!

- Rich


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