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Pony Safety Switches....??!!??

#1

B

bobpo

I have an '04 TroyBilt Pony rider mower. I have replaced the 17 hp engine, belts, battery and starter. It ran fine for several months but gradually got harder and harder to start. I had already disconnected the seat switch. No problem there. It has gotten to the point where it will not start at all. It won't even crank. Nothing. It gets good contact though. Called the local Lawn Mower repair shop. He is full beyond capacity. He suggested I find and bypass the safety switches.

That's my problem. I have the schematic, and it shows them, I just can't find them....Any help out there would be appreciated......??? :confused2:


#2

L

Lawnranger

Before you try to bypass any safety switches, confirm by testing a few things first. Check battery voltage, should be 12.6V. Check if you have power to the small wire on the solenoid when you hold the key in the start position. Your solenoid may have two small wires, one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. You may need an assistant to help you while you make the check. Try jumping the two large wires on the solenoid with a screwdriver and see if the starter cranks the engine. These checks are simple to make and it will determine if you have a safety switch problem or a battery problem. There is a good possibility that a safety switch is defective but sometimes they are difficult to find and test. Report back with your findings and that will better help us determine where to go next.


#3

B

bobpo

I actually replaced the Solenoid last summer. As I recall, the solenoid the guy sold me may not have been the one it called for however. He told me how to wire it, but.. It could be wired wrong. The act of starting got worse as the summer went along and eventually it just quit. I did have 12.6V on the battery.

How it started was when I went to start it, it would crank over one partial turn, like it had a bad battery (but it didn't) and then quit. Sometimes when I tried to start it, it would turn over once and quit. If I did this several times, it would eventually start with one crank-over. Then it got to the point where it wouldn't do anything.

I know the battery is good however as well as the contacts.

(You know, being in my 70's I remember a time when they didn't have safety switches. Matter of fact, I recall pushin' a reel-type mower with no motor at all..LOL) :laughing:


#4

R

Rivets

From what you posted LawnRanger has you on the right path. I would add to look for any loose connections. Sounds like something is creating a high draw condition.


#5

B

bobpo

Thanks for the advice, I will try all suggestions. Hopefully, one of the earlier ones will work. I'll post the results.


#6

L

Lawnranger

bobpo said:
I actually replaced the Solenoid last summer. As I recall, the solenoid the guy sold me may not have been the one it called for however. He told me how to wire it, but.. It could be wired wrong. The act of starting got worse as the summer went along and eventually it just quit. I did have 12.6V on the battery.

How it started was when I went to start it, it would crank over one partial turn, like it had a bad battery (but it didn't) and then quit. Sometimes when I tried to start it, it would turn over once and quit. If I did this several times, it would eventually start with one crank-over. Then it got to the point where it wouldn't do anything.

I know the battery is good however as well as the contacts.

(You know, being in my 70's I remember a time when they didn't have safety switches. Matter of fact, I recall pushin' a reel-type mower with no motor at all..LOL) :laughing:
Click to expand...


You can't rule out anything until it is tested and verified good or defective so I like to start with the simple checks first and get those out of the way. Your problem could be more involved such as valve lash incorrect, automatic compression release not working properly (if equipped). If you know how to perform voltage drop tests, do the tests and report back with your findings. I've seen all kinds of crazy things cause the problem you have and even had one with a bent push rod.

I'm not quite your age but I remember cutting the lawn with a reel mower, too. I still remember how relieved I was the day my dad came home with a new Briggs & Stratton powered push mower. I can still see the sticker that read "Step here to start" on the deck.


#7

R

Rivets

Just thought of something after reading the post again. Did the solenoid you replaced last year have three or four terminals? Did the one your mechanic gave you have the same number of terminals? If you replaced a four terminal one with a three terminal one and you mounted it in the same location, you will lose ground because it is not mounted properly. Three terminal ones must be mounted to a chassis ground, while four terminal ones just need a good ground wire. Just an idea.


#8

B

bobpo

Rivets said:
Just thought of something after reading the post again. Did the solenoid you replaced last year have three or four terminals? Did the one your mechanic gave you have the same number of terminals? If you replaced a four terminal one with a three terminal one and you mounted it in the same location, you will lose ground because it is not mounted properly. Three terminal ones must be mounted to a chassis ground, while four terminal ones just need a good ground wire. Just an idea.
Click to expand...

You might be on to something, I'll check it tomorrow.


#9

B

bobpo

Well, it looks like you were right about the Solenoid. It has two (2) large posts, and one (1) small one. :thumbsup:

I jumped a short screwdriver cross the two large posts and the engine cranked a couple of times, so I stopped. I DID NOT TRY TO START IT .

Now, does this indicate that I might have a bad Solenoid? When I jumped the posts, one of the heavy wires (from one of the large posts) got really hot in a second or two. :eek:

It rained real good so, and since I can't find a steering drag link for my Allis Chalmers Model C w/mower deck, I will have to rely on the Pony...I HOPE...:rolleyes: Two acres plus..... :frown:


#10

L

Lawnranger

bobpo said:
Well, it looks like you were right about the Solenoid. It has two (2) large posts, and one (1) small one. :thumbsup:

I jumped a short screwdriver cross the two large posts and the engine cranked a couple of times, so I stopped. I DID NOT TRY TO START IT .

Now, does this indicate that I might have a bad Solenoid? When I jumped the posts, one of the heavy wires (from one of the large posts) got really hot in a second or two. :eek:

It rained real good so, and since I can't find a steering drag link for my Allis Chalmers Model C w/mower deck, I will have to rely on the Pony...I HOPE...:rolleyes: Two acres plus..... :frown:
Click to expand...

In my first post to you I asked that you check voltage on the small wire going to the solenoid while holding the key in the start position but you have not reported back with your findings on that test. Go back and read my first post to you and perform the tests recommended and report back with your findings. This is a process of elimination and until we eliminate all the possibilities, we won't be able to answer your question if the solenoid is bad or not.


#11

B

bobpo

Thanks Lawnranger, I will do as instructed (this time) sometimes I don't read, or is it "comprehend" everything I read.

I don't think I used to be like that when I was younger...LOL :laughing:

Thanks again for your assistance, I appreciate it.....


#12

J

jross

An engine that starts to crank, then stops, could need the valves adjusted to enable the compression release to function The fact that it kept getting worse through the mowing season would indicate valve wear.


#13

B

bobpo

Lawnranger,

I checked voltages.The Solenoid has two Large Posts and One Small Wire. I first checked the voltage from the Battery side of the Solenoid to the Small Wire, with the Key in the Start Position. It showed 12.8 volts, same as the battery.

Then I checked Voltage from the Engine Side of the Solenoid with the Key in the Start Position, to the Small Wire on the Solenoid. Zero Voltage.

I also checked the Continuity from the Small Wire on the Solenoid to the Frame, GOOD. Then from the Battery side of the Solenoid to the Frame, GOOD. From the Engine side of the Solenoid to the Small Wire with the Key in Start Position. NOTHING.


#14

R

Rivets

Do what LawnRanger says and get back to us. Can't help without good input. Remember we normally get to see what we are working on, now you have to be our eyes and hands.


#15

B

bobpo

Lawnranger said:
Before you try to bypass any safety switches, confirm by testing a few things first. Check battery voltage, should be 12.6V. Check if you have power to the small wire on the solenoid when you hold the key in the start position. Your solenoid may have two small wires, one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. You may need an assistant to help you while you make the check. Try jumping the two large wires on the solenoid with a screwdriver and see if the starter cranks the engine. These checks are simple to make and it will determine if you have a safety switch problem or a battery problem. There is a good possibility that a safety switch is defective but sometimes they are difficult to find and test. Report back with your findings and that will better help us determine where to go next.
Click to expand...

Back to Base #1.

Well, there is No Voltage to the Small Wire on the Solenoid with the Ignition Switch in the "START" position. The Solenoid is grounded well however.

The Battery Voltage is reading 12.8V


#16

B

bobpo

Rivets said:
Do what LawnRanger says and get back to us. Can't help without good input. Remember we normally get to see what we are working on, now you have to be our eyes and hands.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the assist Rivets.....


#17

R

Rivets

Is that with the key switch turned to the start position? If the answer is YES, then you have either a safety switch issue or bad key switch.


#18

B

bobpo

Rivets,

As I recall, I ran several tests on that Ignition/Key Switch when all this started and it seems to be in good working order. But then on the other hand, I don't know a lot about electrical wiring when it comes to any motorized piece of equipment. Car, Mower, ATV etc..

I might just replace it also while I'm at it, but I guess now I'll look for the Safety Switches....:confused2: :mad: :thumbdown:


#19

B

bobpo

bobpo said:
Rivets,

As I recall, I ran several tests on that Ignition/Key Switch when all this started and it seems to be in good working order. But then on the other hand, I don't know a lot about electrical wiring when it comes to any motorized piece of equipment. Car, Mower, ATV etc..

I might just replace it also while I'm at it, but I guess now I'll look for the Safety Switches....:confused2: :mad: :thumbdown:
Click to expand...

Well, this is the Latest Update y'all asked for. I broke down and took the Pony to a repair shop

Problems;
1. Solenoid Bad (replaced)
2. Carb Needle and Seat, with gasket Bad. (Replaced.)
3. Mower Deck ran all the time. (now adjusted properly)
4. A little Gas in the Oil (Oil Changed)
5. Valve Adjustment off slightly (adjusted with a new gasket)

Now works great. Thanks for the input


#20

R

Rivets

From your postings I would never have guessed that you had a bad solenoid. Would like to know why you had no voltage at the small terminal when you tried to start it? Any way it works that's the best news.


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