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As I slip past 60 years of age and still working hard, it has made me reflect on much of my past "hard times".

My goodness, If I had not learned my skills early in life as a troubleshooter and mechanic, I would be flat broke and begging for food and shelter on a daily basis. That, or living with my kin folks basically mooching from them and riding on their success in life.

I have also heard the phrase "This generation will never learn" many times over the years. Generations have passed and I have also witnessed through the years as it is slowly becoming a reality more and more. Less people are willing to put forth any effort to learn and be a productive member in society. Pride in workmanship is a rare trait anymore.

Why should they want to apply themselves when they have multiple avenues that will keep the afloat. Many have the mindset that they don't have to put forth any effort.

Quite a few of them I meet say "why do I need to learn this stuff? I'll never use it. They are totally missing the "big picture".

What happened to self-motivation, self-reliance and self-improvement as we age?

Most modern techs I come across are only interested in "riding the clock" to get a paycheck. Along with that, they bounce from job to job without actually learning the needed skills to be good at any job.

Auto Doc's said:

Most modern techs I come across are only interested in "riding the clock" to get a paycheck.

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And playing on their phones all day long. Wasting time on MOWER FORUMS, oops like I am right now LOL.

If they are being proactive trying to research an issue to perform a proper repair, I would not have an issue with that.

I am 75 years old will be 76 on the 23thrd. Worked in the industry 50 years but had to retire just after the first of the year due to health issues. Sure, wish I could continue to work. I am doing a little on the side and fixing and selling used mowers. Enjoy what you do while you can.

A I is going to be able to everything. Besides they have us with installed USB ports so we instantly load the info we need.

Let's see. 18250 days since the last time i needed to solve a quadratic equation. I think my high school math teacher lied to me. I think the auto shop class was more useful than algebra 3.

I made a good career being able to fix machines for almost 50 years. Had a manager once threaten to fire me for not being available for call outs 24/7 for no pay. He didn't like "no" but he was gone in a couple years. I was there 20 more.
50 years ago service techs in most industries were valued. Not any more. Corporations only care about how cheap they can get a warm body to hold the proper end of a screwdriver. The mower dealers around me don't pay squat for techs. Same for most industries.

And shops don't trust a mechanic that say he do the work and just certification out the rear even through most I have attended are useless I usually know more than the instructor.

I even offered once the work a week and if I couldn't do the job they didn't pay me and I could quit. JD refused to take me up on the offer. So I went to work and two years later they were trying to hire. I said why as I already learn how to run my own business. That was 16 yrs ago.

I've got a huge stack of certifications, but they mean very little if the knowledge is not understood and applied.

Way too much of this so-called "certification" process has been pushed off to 1-hour videos and pass the 20 questions at the end. No practical application or real-world equipment diagnostics. It's all done sitting in a chair and clicking the computer mouse. The rest is OJT by trial and error. Many of the younger techs lack the patience to be working with small engine equipment.

I still get called in to shops from time to time for contract work mostly on AG tractors and equipment, but they are happy to also have me help resolve their backlog of mystery lawn equipment issues as well when I happen to already be there.

Several shops typically want to play "flat rate" labor guide hours games, and I will have nothing to do with that mess. If I'm there, it is strictly pay me by my straight "working hour" agreed rate regardless of how many units I work on. They can have the headaches sorting out how they want to bill it.

When I have a shop tech ask me about a repair, the first question I ask them is where the repair manual is and what have they tested? They are baffled because I did not provide an instant "off the top of my head" solution to their machine problem. Of course, there are some situations that a repair manual just does not cover. The problems are usually self-inflicted. That is where years of experience and system/component working knowledge come into play.

Example:

A young tech was working on a 25HP Kawasaki engine carb in a zero-turn. He pulled the carburetor off and completely disassembled it (down to the last screw) and put all the parts in an ultra-sonic wash for an hour.

He then reassembled and installed it only to find out that the idle was high and he had no low idle. He fiddled with it for about an hour and was completely baffled.

I was busy with a tractor job but watching over him and his dilemma. He was going to start messing with the governor adjustment until I stopped him. I told him to pull the carburetor back off. He was confused but pulled it back off.

It took less than a second to spot the problem. The throttle plate was not centered in the bore of the carburetor. I showed him by looking down the throat of the carburetor and seeing considerable daylight with the idle screw backed all the way out. I loosened the throttle plate screws and tapped the plate lightly so it would center then tightened it back down, the slow idle screw was adjusted just enough to test run the engine for final adjustment. He put the carburetor on and was amazed. A small adjustment to the slow idle and life was good.

His comment was priceless when he said, "I guess that's why you get paid the big bucks, huh". I just grinned and said next time don't take any carburetor apart any more than you have to. There is no good reason to remove a throttle plate for a routine cleaning.

will be 75 in a couple weeks. Yes, we see it. I was with my dad when I was about 40, walking down one of a wide sidewalk and a 25 - 30 year old charged between us, guy, nipple rings, leather coat wide open, mohawk. My dad and I were kind and we each stepped aside to let him barrel thru. Both dad and I played tackle football in our youth, both were still athletic and either of us could have laid him flat and said oops. When he was well past us with his temper tantrum, whatever it was, I asked my dad, "is it a generational thing? Did my generation give yours grief like that?" Dad said, "no, some of you were more problems than others but in general no, the gap today is miles wide. You aren't the only one who sees it." So that generation has had children now, and they are the ones that many have been raised to expect someone to do it for them. I have three brothers. Two raised their kids to get er done, and don't whine about it. All the children from those two brothers do well, doctors, nurses, architects, building contractors. One brother did every thing for his kids. They run to mom and dad all the time for help because they can't do it without their mom and dad. If you look around you there are a few words that say it all - BudLight, CrackerBarrel, DixieChicks, Panera Bread. Need I say more. The Supreme Court chastised lower court judges a week ago and threatened contempt if they keep ignoring rulings. I spoke with a "progressive" friend about it. With fingers in his ears figuratively he said, "maybe the Supreme Court should be more clear in its rulings so people understand." I pulled the plug on our 60 year friendship. I too am done with the BS from people who expect someone else to pay their way. They can eat crows if they can catch them for all I care. Plenty of wild hogs need culling so there is plenty of meat around other than crow. Dandelions can make a good salad cause that is where they are headed. It has been a long time coming in all professions, not just with mechanics and repair shops.

sgkent said:

will be 75 in a couple weeks. Yes, we see it. I was with my dad when I was about 40, walking down one of a wide sidewalk and a 25 - 30 year old charged between us, guy, nipple rings, leather coat wide open, mohawk. My dad and I were kind and we each stepped aside to let him barrel thru. Both dad and I played tackle football in our youth, both were still athletic and either of us could have laid him flat and said oops. When he was well past us with his temper tantrum, whatever it was, I asked my dad, "is it a generational thing? Did my generation give yours grief like that?" Dad said, "no, some of you were more problems than others but in general no, the gap today is miles wide. You aren't the only one who sees it." So that generation has had children now, and they are the ones that many have been raised to expect someone to do it for them. I have three brothers. Two raised their kids to get er done, and don't whine about it. All the children from those two brothers do well, doctors, nurses, architects, building contractors. One brother did every thing for his kids. They run to mom and dad all the time for help because they can't do it without their mom and dad. If you look around you there are a few words that say it all - BudLight, CrackerBarrel, DixieChicks, Panera Bread. Need I say more. The Supreme Court chastised lower court judges a week ago and threatened contempt if they keep ignoring rulings. I spoke with a "progressive" friend about it. With fingers in his ears figuratively he said, "maybe the Supreme Court should be more clear in its rulings so people understand." I pulled the plug on our 60 year friendship. I too am done with the BS from people who expect someone else to pay their way. They can eat crows if they can catch them for all I care. Plenty of wild hogs need culling so there is plenty of meat around other than crow. Dandelions can make a good salad cause that is where they are headed. It has been a long time coming in all professions, not just with mechanics and repair shops.

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I appreciate hearing from you guys, and your life experience and mechanic experience. I am 59 and this is my fourth career (small engines), so don’t have the many years of experience some mechanics have.

Turning a wrench correctly is one thing, however, running a shop, and all the different tasks of being self-employed, is a whole other level. How many good solid mechanics have good solid customer service skills and common sense business skills?

In general, people today many times, are lacking certain qualities that are needed to be excellent at their craft. Lack of discipline, lack of self motivation, no real thirst for knowledge are a few to begin with. We have it so good as a society, that we have gotten soft, and have lost our hustle. People 40 years old and younger don’t seem to want to get their hands dirty. You have to dive in a blue collar job head first and embrace the scrapes, sore muscles, sweat, and climate you are working in. I am hot in the summer, and cold in the winter. Working on equipment is not an easy job.

Who knows what the future will hold for electricians, plumbers, welders, mechanics, HVAC, etc.
Today all we can do is our best, always keep your integrity, and take care of the customer.

Tiger Small Engine said:

I appreciate hearing from you guys, and your life experience and mechanic experience. I am 59 and this is my fourth career (small engines), so don’t have the many years of experience some mechanics have.

Turning a wrench correctly is one thing, however, running a shop, and all the different tasks of being self-employed, is a whole other level. How many good solid mechanics have good solid customer service skills and common sense business skills?

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I kind of see that in my area. People think that they work on their own equipment so they could work on other people's equipment. And the two things don't come to reality. So I see people starting lawn mower repair shops in their garages, but within a couple years close up and move onto other endeavors. Working on equipment is one thing, but also running the business side of the operation is beyond most people's skills. And a one man shop can't afford a full time accountant to do the books. Much more time is spend on doing the daily business operations than making money doing the actual paying repairs.

And I am probably one of the younger techs on here at 57 and 27 years of professional experience. And if you want people skills, my prior job was going on other peoples property without their permission, to do something that didn't want done, and threatening me could result in being put in timeout in the back of a squad car while we performed necessary work to a felony conviction.

When i was training new guys they all didn't do or want to do logical troubleshooting. They would just change parts and if that didn't fix it they were lost. Especially electrical issues and too lazy to learn theory. They would act like reading was for dumb people.

ILENGINE said:

And I am probably one of the younger techs on here at 57 and 27 years of professional experience. And if you want people skills, my prior job was going on other peoples property without their permission, to do something that didn't want done, and threatening me could result in being put in timeout in the back of a squad car while we performed necessary work to a felony conviction.

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That is about how one nearly got shot here. Driveway alert didn't go off and the shop alarm did. Poking his nose around my shop using a penlight looking at customers equipment like a thief. When he heard me chamber a shell and yelled hands up, he did so and IDed himself. So glad I didn't have to do the paperwork and clean up. 12Ga with T shot makes one heck of a mess and I don't usually miss either. If you to serve notice of a lawsuit you do it during normal business hours not 10pm in the dark using a penlight.

Hammermechanicman said:

When i was training new guys they all didn't do or want to do logical troubleshooting. They would just change parts and if that didn't fix it they were lost. Especially electrical issues and too lazy to learn theory. They would act like reading was for dumb people.

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Or have one that refuse training say he know all about the repairs. This was at a job I was leaving so I let him at it. He lasted 3 months. I just moved on to the new job and forget about it. Beside I had my hands full learning new equipment during a messy merger. First 6 months it was just putting out fires [emergency repairs].

I didn't appreciate algebra and several others either , but walk in an educator's shoes that requires the job to teach what the public wants .

I can't recall all of the classes I was in that taught " Why did Ceasir cross the Rubicon ?

SeniorCitizen said:

I didn't appreciate algebra and several others either , but walk in an educator's shoes that requires the job to teach what the public wants .

I can't recall all of the classes I was in that taught " Why did Ceasir cross the Rubicon ?

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Point of no return and befinning of the end.

I could make all of you feel old really quick..

Scrubcadet10 said:

I could make all of you feel old really quick..

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You don't have to. I really feel old as I know I am not a Spring chicken anymore. Those aches and pains reminds me every day.

I turn 68 this month but don't feel a day over 90. Was up 25 feet on a ladder this morning nailing siding on a barn.

Hammermechanicman said:

I turn 68 this month but don't feel a day over 90. Was up 25 feet on a ladder this morning nailing siding on a barn.

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Most days I feel good, good attitude, and good energy level. I can still outwork guys in their 20’s and 30’s. If you don’t have physical and mental health it makes everything much worse.

I know we are talking about small engines specifically on this forum, and this thread is addressing running a shop. If you broaden the scope to blue collar work in general, plumbers, HVAC, construction, electrician, etc., my concern is fewer and fewer people want to go into these fields. They are “too good” for it, or it is “beneath” them. All the young people want to go to college. Statistically only about 1 in 4 people actually graduate college with a bachelor degree. If you don’t have a higher education then a skilled trade is a great opportunity. They often don’t have the brains for school, or the desire for a skilled trade. So that is what I am saying we are kind of at in this point in time.

Poor discipline from poor parenting styles over the years, one parent homes, drugs, the internet, are some of the main reasons for results in 2025. I have literally never had anyone that was genuinely interested in learning small engine repair approach me.

Working on your own mower (that you get to know pretty well) and working on just about every brand and model is a whole different ball game. Being a mechanic in a shop and just focusing on that versus running a shop and wearing the multiple hats, is once again a whole different story. People have no idea how difficult some of this stuff can be. The level of patience, persistence, troubleshooting skills, experience is something only select people can do. Then add fielding phone calls, and customers coming into the shop when you are busy, and it can be a daunting challenge.

Most workers have no idea what it takes to run a shop. they come in and do their job and think that is all there is to do.

It doesn't matter what field you're in. If you're running your shop by yourself you have to be a Jack of all trades. Other words you're the owner, employee, salesman, repairman, procurement manager, inventory manager, bookkeeper, complaint department, etc. Here I do it all that along working working multiple OEM brands. Good recording keeping is a must.

And on top of that some customers thinks we are idiots. I just kick out one last week that called and want to know if the equipment was ready even he knew full well he hadn't approved the estimate. He was thinking that I would go ahead and repair the equipment without approval so he could get a free repair. Boy this is an old con that I have seen several times over the years. Hasn't worked yet here.

If I can only stop forgetting where I put my glasses. At least I know where the spare pair is so I can find the ones missing.

Jack of all trades about covers it.

I stopped doing free estimates and taking in random customers or "emergencies". Now I only rely on a network of known good customers referrals. Business has been steady without too much hustle and bustle.

Anyone who is referred to me already understands that my time is not free and all parts costs (over $50.00) will be paid up front before any work begins. if they cannot deal with that, they can go elsewhere.

Some are a little shocked and expect for me to pay for everything to fix their problem machines. That's not happening anymore.

It definitely reduced the number of abandon machines sitting that were already repaired along my money and credit accounts being tied up by slow/no payers.

Auto Doc's said:

Jack of all trades about covers it.

I stopped doing free estimates and taking in random customers or "emergencies". Now I only rely on a network of known good customers referrals. Business has been steady without too much hustle and bustle.

Anyone who is referred to me already understands that my time is not free and all parts costs (over $50.00) will be paid up front before any work begins. if they cannot deal with that, they can go elsewhere.

Some are a little shocked and expect for me to pay for everything to fix their problem machines. That's not happening anymore.

It definitely reduced the number of abandon machines sitting that were already repaired along my money and credit accounts being tied up by slow/no payers.

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New potential customers that “have to get equipment fixed” immediately I can not and will not help. They can keep calling until a shop will jump through hoops for them. I have a minimum diagnostic charge so they at least have some skin in the game.
I only work on four brands of handheld equipment, so I don’t get stuck with loads of off brand equipment that won’t run often because of compression issues.
The longer you stay in business, the more selective you can be. Every week someone calls about a minor repair and implies that “it will only take 20 minutes” when I say I am a month out on repairs. So essentially they want me to bump them up over all the other customers to make $30 bucks. Not how I do business. Once your customer base is established the repeat business and referrals give you plenty of good business.

I had some new customers just to test my abilities before becoming good customers over the years. Handhelds are usually done near cost as they tend to bring more profitable business. They are fairly easy to do here as that what I was limited to when my brother had the business in 2008-09 and I was using the funds to pay for the internet and office supplies. At first it took a long time to get the repairs done but now most are under an hour. I actually took a PU load of 2 cycles my brother refused to look at as he was just going junk out, repaired 3/4 of them and made a profit. Of course I wrote a lot in labor at the time as I chalk that to learning the repairs.

Now I don't do advertising as that usually brings in the deadbeat customers. You know those who wants something done for nothing types.

If customer wants a rush job here it costs them 1-1/2 times the normal shop rate. If they come by on Sundays, its 2x so most will wait for normal business hours.

Most customers don't really know what is involved in a repair. I had one that insisted it only took 30 minutes to remove and install a horizontal CC shaft drive engine. So I ask for him to prove it; I even offered to let him to use my tools. He declined of course and he is no longer a customer as I barred him from the shop.

And I just barred another customer for trying an old con job. I don't do work before approval and he just called wanting to know if I had the equipment ready after two weeks of him not approving the estimate. He assumed I was stupid enough to do the work without approval. The equipment was return just like it came in except it had UV dye in the oil.

Now I had to program my phone so it doesn't ring after hours just so I have my peace of mind. Leave a message or I don't call them back. I just demand my private time.

Hi StarTech,

Back when I was a JD service manager, I used to tell my more opinionated techs that I would gladly make them manager for a day if they wanted to see if they could do the job better than me. They knew that I was not joking and quickly backed off with all the gripping and complaining.

It's kind of funny, it seems like everyone wants to be "in charge" until they actually are actually put in that position.

Self-employed and being their "own boss" to many seem like some kind of ideal dream.

Being a self-employed one-man operation, it only takes a short time and a near empty bank account to figure out that "window shoppers", and the phone estimate type people will burn up all of your time if you let them. Mix in a few telemarketers and product vendors trying to make a sale and there goes a majority of the time that you could have actually been working on equipment for paying customers.

Equipment problems are simple compared to people problems. Eliminating distractions, time management along with good record keeping makes all the difference. The phase "Don't suffer Fools" comes to mind.

Most of the younger generations (past 40 years at least) have seldom been taught good management skills, work ethics or raised in or around a hard-working family.

StarTech said:

I had some new customers just to test my abilities before becoming good customers over the years. Handhelds are usually done near cost as they tend to bring more profitable business. They are fairly easy to do here as that what I was limited to when my brother had the business in 2008-09 and I was using the funds to pay for the internet and office supplies. At first it took a long time to get the repairs done but now most are under an hour. I actually took a PU load of 2 cycles my brother refused to look at as he was just going junk out, repaired 3/4 of them and made a profit. Of course I wrote a lot in labor at the time as I chalk that to learning the repairs.

Now I don't do advertising as that usually brings in the deadbeat customers. You know those who wants something done for nothing types.

If customer wants a rush job here it costs them 1-1/2 times the normal shop rate. If they come by on Sundays, its 2x so most will wait for normal business hours.

Most customers don't really know what is involved in a repair. I had one that insisted it only took 30 minutes to remove and install a horizontal CC shaft drive engine. So I ask for him to prove it; I even offered to let him to use my tools. He declined of course and he is no longer a customer as I barred him from the shop.

And I just barred another customer for trying an old con job. I don't do work before approval and he just called wanting to know if I had the equipment ready after two weeks of him not approving the estimate. He assumed I was stupid enough to do the work without approval. The equipment was return just like it came in except it had UV dye in the oil.

Now I had to program my phone so it doesn't ring after hours just so I have my peace of mind. Leave a message or I don't call them back. I just demand my private time.

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You can always make more money, but you can’t make more time. I work hard and steady 5 days a week. I push myself and strive for excellence in service, communication, turn around time, and value. I don’t need customers adding to my work load by wanting after hours special treatment or “rush jobs”, so I simply have basic business rules such as regular hours. If the customer cannot abide by them, I can’t help them. There is too much good business to be chasing bad customers.

I do have regular hours and have insisted customers coming during those hours. Yes some got overly pushy and those are out of here. My time off duty is my time, not theirs; as I got my own place to take care of.

And I can be a real A-hole if I having a bad week, I try to be nice but some just want to push their luck.

I have my business phone number through GoDaddy Smart Line. Rings to my phone starting at 8:00AM and rolls to voicemail at 8PM. I will accommodate folks dropping off or picking up till 8 since my shop is 100 yards from my house. Not sure why some folks think a broken mower is an emergency. 99.9% of my customers are great but you still get that one joker in the deck. I have found the people wanting an estimate over the phone really need to have a different shop than mine do the work. My reputation and work quality is more important than the dollar but i refuse to be taken advantage of.

Those are usually the ones that wait until someone raises enough cane before they try to get things repaired. Otherwords they wait until they are in deep trouble.

So how do (or can) we flip this problem around against our current entitled society that is hell bent on having everything done with garbage cheap parts and think mower mechanics are just beggars with a hobby?

The few (new) equipment dealers that are in my area seem to think they can charge what the car dealers do for labor ($150.00-180.00hr) in their repair shops, but the technicians are still hovering at around minimum wage.

Training is mostly OJT in the small engine shops with a few OE product training video lessons thrown in so they can maintain their dealership license status to sell new products.

The general public is getting shafted, especially at the big box stores who sell "licensed products" but have to refer them to the dealer for warranty work. After the OE warranty runs out then the aftermarket warranty that the customer possibly purchased kicks in and the fun really begins.

The aftermarket warranty companies play lots of denial games and often want to pay for used or cheap aftermarket parts or deny the claims and dispute labor times according to some imaginary "repair time matrix" they've cooked up.

One of two things usually happen; the shop takes a loss, or the customer takes a loss and pays the difference. The warranty company wins in most situations because of their shady contract the customer purchased.

I once worked as a JD service manager, and I know the reality of the situation across several product lines that we dealt with. I finally walked away from the JD dealership in 2010 and have seen things get much worse working as an independent contractor in several of the competing dealer shops I get called into.

Equipment dealer shops are reluctant to call in outside help until it becomes a full-blown emergency with an irate customer and they just cannot figure out the problem(s).

Fortunately, I do not have to chase work very much and my (older) customers do not hesitate to have me resolve their small engine problems. If it is just not worth fixing due to costs, I give them the harsh reality then it's up to them to save it or let it go.

Auto Doc's said:

So how do (or can) we flip this problem around against our current entitled society that is hell bent on having everything done with garbage cheap parts and think mower mechanics are just beggars with a hobby?

The few (new) equipment dealers that are in my area seem to think they can charge what the car dealers do for labor ($150.00-180.00hr) in their repair shops, but the technicians are still hovering at around minimum wage.

Training is mostly OJT in the small engine shops with a few OE product training video lessons thrown in so they can maintain their dealership license status to sell new products.

The general public is getting shafted, especially at the big box stores who sell "licensed products" but have to refer them to the dealer for warranty work. After the OE warranty runs out then the aftermarket warranty that the customer possibly purchased kicks in and the fun really begins.

The aftermarket warranty companies play lots of denial games and often want to pay for used or cheap aftermarket parts or deny the claims and dispute labor times according to some imaginary "repair time matrix" they've cooked up.

One of two things usually happen; the shop takes a loss, or the customer takes a loss and pays the difference. The warranty company wins in most situations because of their shady contract the customer purchased.

I once worked as a JD service manager, and I know the reality of the situation across several product lines that we dealt with. I finally walked away from the JD dealership in 2010 and have seen things get much worse working as an independent contractor in several of the competing dealer shops I get called into.

Equipment dealer shops are reluctant to call in outside help until it becomes a full-blown emergency with an irate customer and they just cannot figure out the problem(s).

Fortunately, I do not have to chase work very much and my (older) customers do not hesitate to have me resolve their small engine problems. If it is just not worth fixing due to costs, I give them the harsh reality then it's up to them to save it or let it go.

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One of the best ways to ensure a smooth customer/equipment/mechanic owner experience is to be selective on what you work on, and who you work on it for. No shop, be it a small engine shop or a guy that repairs clocks and watches, has to fix or help anyone they don’t want to help. I am not saying take all the gravy jobs only. However, difficult customers or equipment or specific repairs you know you don’t want to tackle, DO NOT do it. Be professional, courteous, and matter of fact about it. If you say “yes”, they will come. Until you lay down the rules, people will nicely take advantage of you. Our goal is to give the best customer service to all our customers. Difficult customers and nightmare repairs negatively affects our attitudes, and therefore trickles down to the customer.

Because most shops are 30% higher on labor (bare minimum) than I am, I rarely have customers complain about costs. Same scenario on parts, they don’t say “wow that part is too high.” People know everything is expensive these days since 2020 and the Corona pandemic hit. They are used to paying a lot and have sort of become numb to today’s costs in general. If people occasionally complain about an invoice total, then you know your costs are about right. My goal is to be as fair as possible on costs, and at the same time not eat everything and maintain gross margins.