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The murray riding mower I have will not all even crank. In the wiring system from the wiring harness to the alternator wire the connecting wire has 3 wires and one of those wires is black which would indicate that might be a ground but I'm unsure of where it goes. Any help is greatly appreciated. Murray riding lawn mower model #309029X92C

Try searching on line for a wiring schematic .
I have a older schematic but having a brain moment that keeps me from posting the pic .

SeniorCitizen said:

Try searching on line for a wiring schematic .
I have a older schematic but having a brain moment that keeps me from posting the

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my problem is my brain does not work as well when I was in my 20s even though I have looked at wiring diagrams and solved them but now I can not tell origin for anything anymore

Good luck with finding the correct Wiring schematic! If you are referring the the BLACK at the motor connector; it goes to the terminal on the coil for the "Engine Stop Circuit". The Murray I have been working on has been a real PITA! I finally made my own wiring diagram

BGS Mex said:

Good luck with finding the correct Wiring schematic! If you are referring the the BLACK at the motor connector; it goes to the terminal on the coil for the "Engine Stop Circuit". The Murray I have been working on has been a real PITA! I finally made my own wiring diagram

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still doesn't show my connection which what I not seeing in the manual for the motor and murray chassis wiring harness doesn't show up. the dual alternator connector has 3 wires one is black but unsure where it goes.

That Guy88 said:

still doesn't show my connection which what I not seeing in the manual for the motor and murray chassis wiring harness doesn't show up. the dual alternator connector has 3 wires one is black but unsure where it goes.

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You will have to remove the top plastic cover on the motor. At the flywheel you will see the coil, and underneath it a small "tab" This is where that black wire attaches.

BGS Mex said:

You will have to remove the top plastic cover on the motor. At the flywheel you will see the coil, and underneath it a small "tab" This is where that black wire attaches.

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that's already been attached

the wire I'm talking about is the one that goes from stator or alternator out to the chassis wiring harness cause the alternator is a dual charging system.

That Guy88 said:

the wire I'm talking about is the one that goes from stator or alternator out to the chassis wiring harness cause the alternator is a dual charging system.

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So, it's the smaller connector that comes from the Chassis Harness? Does this black have a large "lump" just before it enters the connector on the engine side? If it does that is a Diode. Do you have a pic?

doesn't crank is about a helpful as doesn't work. Do you know how to troubleshoot do a basic testing of a battery charging and starting system? Own a VOM? The battery could be dead. When was the last time it ran?

BGS Mex said:

So, it's the smaller connector that comes from the Chassis Harness? Does this black have a large "lump" just before it enters the connector on the engine side? If it does that is a Diode. Do you have a pic?

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have no picture. at the beginning of the wire it has a two wire connector that connects back to the chassis harness then too the engine

sgkent said:

doesn't crank is about a helpful as doesn't work. Do you know how to troubleshoot do a basic testing of a battery charging and starting system? Own a VOM? The battery could be dead. When was the last time it ran?

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battery is good tested that out already it was 12.66 volts

That Guy88 said:

battery is good tested that out already it was 12.66 volts

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if that is while cranking it is excellent or indicates resistance between it and the starter, ground etc.. If that is just sitting it really means little. It can fall to 8V or 9V when cranking. The test has to be when cranking to see how well the battery holds the voltage.

sgkent said:

if that is while cranking it is excellent or indicates resistance between it and the starter, ground etc.. If that is just sitting it really means little. It can fall to 8V or 9V when cranking. The test has to be when cranking to see how well the battery holds the voltage.

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the problem is it won't even begin to start

Does "Not Cranking" Mean the engine doesn't turn over with the Key turned to the "Start" position? Have you tried shorting across the two (large) solenoid terminals? What voltage is at the "small" solenoid terminal when you turn the key to the "start" position?

BGS Mex said:

Does "Not Cranking" Mean the engine doesn't turn over with the Key turned to the "Start" position? Have you tried shorting across the two (large) solenoid terminals? What voltage is at the "small" solenoid terminal when you turn the key to the "start" position?

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I tried that with the original sylenoid and the 2nd post did not complete the circuit so I had to get another sylenoid to replace that one.

That Guy88 said:

has 3 wires and one of those wires is black which would indicate that might be a ground

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Never go off wire color to determine what is on said wire.

That Guy88 said:

I tried that with the original sylenoid and the 2nd post did not complete the circuit so I had to get another sylenoid to replace that one.

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If you "Short Across" both terminals 12 volts goes directly to the starter. Have you done this? does the starter turn the engine over??? I haven't seen anywhere whether the starter actually works or not. If you put 12 volts directly to the positive post on the starter, and the negative from the battery to the frame; as above this will tell you if the starter actually works. Throwing parts at it will only cost money and you might get lucky.

BGS Mex said:

If you "Short Across" both terminals 12 volts goes directly to the starter. Have you done this? does the starter turn the engine over??? I haven't seen anywhere whether the starter actually works or not. If you put 12 volts directly to the positive post on the starter, and the negative from the battery to the frame; as above this will tell you if the starter actually works. Throwing parts at it will only cost money and you might get lucky.

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I tried that seeing what would happen and it worked. so after doing a continuity test on the sylenoid it did not ping

That Guy88 said:

I tried that seeing what would happen and it worked. so after doing a continuity test on the sylenoid it did not ping

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OK; so now we know that the starter will turn the motor. The Next test is for the solenoid. Take that 12 volt source from the previous test, leaving the negative as attached, and touch it to the "Small" positive terminal on the solenoid; you should hear the "click" and the starter should turn. If it doesn't; mahe sure the solenoid is grounded properly. Let me know the result.

BGS Mex said:

OK; so now we know that the starter will turn the motor. The Next test is for the solenoid. Take that 12 volt source from the previous test, leaving the negative as attached, and touch it to the "Small" positive terminal on the solenoid; you should hear the "click" and the starter should turn. If it doesn't; mahe sure the solenoid is groI'llunded properly. Let me know the result.

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these tests you are saying have been completed. the solenoid from the 2nd post did not turn the start failed connection. I have the new solenoid but the problem now is I don't even hear the solenoid click. could that be a ground issue. just let me know and thanks for the support and answers I greatly appreciate them.

That Guy88 said:

these tests you are saying have been completed. the solenoid from the 2nd post did not turn the start failed connection. I have the new solenoid but the problem now is I don't even hear the solenoid click. could that be a ground issue. just let me know and thanks for the support and answers I greatly appreciate them.

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Does your "new" starter solenoid look like this? The two small terminals on these are interchangeable. One is "Black" to ground, and the other takes it's 12 volts from the Key switch when it is turned to "Start". It doesn't matter as long as both are connected.Some other types take the ground from the chassis and the base of the solenoid and only have one small connector that is fed 12V from the ignition switch when it is turned to "start".
Are you telling me that when you turn the ignition switch to start that the solenoid doesn't "Click" with the new solenoid but did with the original one??? I still don't have a clear pictire of what works and what doesn't. These tests must be done one at a time and the results documented.

BGS Mex said:

Does your "new" starter solenoid look like this? The two small terminals on these are interchangeable. One is "Black" to ground, and the other takes it's 12 volts from the Key switch when it is turned to "Start". It doesn't matter as long as both are connected.Some other types take the ground from the chassis and the base of the solenoid and only have one small connector that is fed 12V from the ignition switch when it is turned to "start".
Are you telling me that when you turn the ignition switch to start that the solenoid doesn't "Click" with the new solenoid but did with the original one??? I still don't have a clear pictire of what works and what doesn't. These tests must be done one at a time and the results documented.

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no but mine grounded on the bolt that connects the solenoid back to the frame. should I reconsidered the one you are suggesting. when I go to start the lawn mower there is no click from the solenoid at all. could it possibly be the engine that is causing the problem. Just unsure at this point.

That Guy88 said:

no but mine grounded on the bolt that connects the solenoid back to the frame. should I reconsidered the one you are suggesting. when I go to start the lawn mower there is no click from the solenoid at all. could it possibly be the engine that is causing the problem. Just unsure at this point.

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OK; so now we know that the starter will turn the motor. The Next test is for the solenoid. Take a 12 volt source (wire), leaving the negative as attached (to the frame), and touch it to the "Small" positive terminal on the solenoid; you should hear the "click" and the starter should turn. If it doesn't; make sure the solenoid is grounded properly. Are you absolutly positive that the large Red (+) on the solenoid (from the battery) has 12 V? Let me know the results. Can you send a picture of the infamous Loose Black wire?

Hmmm, Ever thought about downloading the schematic? I could post it but I won't.

And that dang black lead from the stator is the AC output for lighting which this mower does not have so of course it is not connected. Someone with a poppy seed brain should been able figured that out by now but that might over tax it.

Oh well back to the dark side [just data collecting] and making parts while watching all the stupid relies to various posts. Just getting sore sides from laughing so much. Most here are just so called mechanics or just part replacers. And they are too scared to actually look up the equipment before replying. This is why I quit helping this forum. I am not going hold their hands and do the work for them without getting paid for it.

BGS Mex said:

OK; so now we know that the starter will turn the motor. The Next test is for the solenoid. Take a 12 volt source (wire), leaving the negative as attached (to the frame), and touch it to the "Small" positive terminal on the solenoid; you should hear the "click" and the starter should turn. If it doesn't; make sure the solenoid is grounded properly. Are you absolutly positive that the large Red (+) on the solenoid (from the battery) has 12 V? Let me know the results. Can you send a picture of the infamous Loose Black wire?

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loose black wire completely removed from that harness now only connected the stator back to the chassis wire harness. but still nothing coming on that solenoid. only conclusion now is to grind away paint to make a bare area on the frame for grounding more proficient.

StarTech said:

Hmmm, Ever thought about downloading the schematic? I could post it but I won't.

And that dang black lead from the stator is the AC output for lighting which this mower does not have so of course it is not connected. Someone with a poppy seed brain should been able figured that out by now but that might over tax it.

Oh well back to the dark side [just data collecting] and making parts while watching all the stupid relies to various posts. Just getting sore sides from laughing so much. Most here are just so called mechanics or just part replacers. And they are too scared to actually look up the equipment before replying. This is why I quit helping this forum. I am not going hold their hands and do the work for them without getting paid for it.

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I removed that wire completely from the harness and if I need lights I can wire them directly to were they need to be out all the mess of a stupid wire I don't need period. thanks for the comment

StarTech said:

Hmmm, Ever thought about downloading the schematic? I could post it but I won't.

And that dang black lead from the stator is the AC output for lighting which this mower does not have so of course it is not connected. Someone with a poppy seed brain should been able figured that out by now but that might over tax it.

Oh well back to the dark side [just data collecting] and making parts while watching all the stupid relies to various posts. Just getting sore sides from laughing so much. Most here are just so called mechanics or just part replacers. And they are too scared to actually look up the equipment before replying. This is why I quit helping this forum. I am not going hold their hands and do the work for them without getting paid for it.

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Was just thinking about you this week Star Tech. If a person has skills, knowledge, experience, and a positive attitude, it really makes a great deal of difference. Let’s just say the phrase, “attitude is everything” isn’t just a saying.

I bought a used Murray at a yard sale years ago, I think its from 2005 or there abouts and I certainly do not baby it. Anyway, I didn't see this thought with a quick read but it caught me a couple times Check the safety switches. My mower got one on the seat, one on the brake/clutch, and I do not recall if there is a third on the blade engage lever. And then there is another connection for I guess what is a non-run on switch on the carb that I am not sure what exactly it does.

Please post engine model number and code. We can look at schematic and walk you through appropriate testing procedures.

Put your multimeter on continuity, looks like a little speaker symbol. Touch probes together and listen for meter to make beeping sound.

Next, put red probe on metal surface of solenoid and black probe on negative (black) terminal of battery. Let us know if the meter beeps. This will let you know if you have proper ground.

Next, change volt meter to voltage VDC, same as you used to obtain battery voltage of 12.6 you posted earlier.

Disconnect wire from spade on solenoid, place red probe in female end of wire. Place black probe on battery ground. Turn key to start, ensure all safety mechanisms are met. Ie .....parking brake on, seat down, pto off etc.

Provide voltage reading sir.

Assuming your motor is original, this should be the schematic. Read top and match to your machine. It's a start!

In your case, assuming this is the proper diagram. Perform testing posted above on orange wire.

StarTech said:

Hmmm, Ever thought about downloading the schematic? I could post it but I won't.

And that dang black lead from the stator is the AC output for lighting which this mower does not have so of course it is not connected. Someone with a poppy seed brain should been able figured that out by now but that might over tax it.

Oh well back to the dark side [just data collecting] and making parts while watching all the stupid relies to various posts. Just getting sore sides from laughing so much. Most here are just so called mechanics or just part replacers. And they are too scared to actually look up the equipment before replying. This is why I quit helping this forum. I am not going hold their hands and do the work for them without getting paid for it.

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Dang, dude

I have been confronted with that problem in the past. What I did was run a red wire directly ( from the battery ) to the starter, ( don't connect it to the starter,just have it ready to go ). And then the black wire from the battery to the frame. I say this because I am guessing the starter you have has only one post for the red wire coming from the battery. Get all this set up and touch the red wire to the starter and see if it rotates. Using a voltmeter is probably the more pro way to do it, but what I am suggesting should tell you if the starter works.

The quick thing I did was get a very well insulated screw driver and bridge the gap on the altenator and if the starter rotates because you know the starter is perfect then the altenator is the problem, maybe even some security features are the issue. Is it one of three things, battery altenator starter or is it combo of 2 or all 3? In my case doing this, the starter did rotate and I did not have a wiring issue and replacing the altenator solved the problem.

Jim

It sounds like one of your safety switches is not in a ready to start state. How many times I have seen this (self inflicted and on neighbor's riders) it's hard to say. First step - go through and VERIFY all safety switch locations are placed in the correct position to start, PTO, deck, seat, brake and any other's that may keep it from cranking. Just the other day the neighbor was all up in the engines stuff because his wouldn't start - first thing I said - are all your safety systems ready to start (of course) what about the pto lever, he slid it over one position and it started and felt pretty damn stupid. Once you are sure it is set to start and it doesn't, pull the starter switch unless you can get good access to the rear of it and with a VOM check the key positions to make sure they are closing as expected. If that checks out go through and close/open each safety switch one at a time and see if one of those is malfunctioning. Some switches you need to short with a wire stub others might need to be isolated. Most likely there will be a video online on how-to for most of these. That's a start - you will either find the problem or eliminate potential issues before getting into the more difficult issues.

It's probably is an ac circuit that powers the headlights!

Douglas Lee said:

It's probably is an ac circuit that powers the headlights!

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Definitely not, because, it was not manufactured with headlights. In addition, the a/c from stator is converted to d/c by diode.

Hope this helps.

As BGS states, if this is a Briggs engine, coming to the engine connector are two charging wires (may be in smaller connector). One usually red and the other orange, I think. The red one has a diode in line in it. That goes into the connector and circles around to power the headlights (blue, brown?). Coming into the harness side should be a wire that powers the carb solenoid (orange?) and one for the coil's kill (usually black). These come from the ignition switch.

Red goes back to fuse and on to battery for charging as well as safety switches. This wire does have a diode as shown above in diagram. It converts a/c to d/c for charging the battery. Orange goes from the solenoid to the ignition switch. Hope this helps.

As a side, there is a great range of experience here. My guess would be with the faulty safety switch. Those experts who contribute, my basic understanding is improving. All the best Mr88.

That Guy88 said:

The murray riding mower I have will not all even crank. In the wiring system from the wiring harness to the alternator wire the connecting wire has 3 wires and one of those wires is black which would indicate that might be a ground but I'm unsure of where it goes. Any help is greatly appreciated. Murray riding lawn mower model #309029X92C

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Ok if it’s wiring on the engine you need to look up the model number of the engine. If it’s wiring to the engine then use the model number of the mower. If it’s not turning over at all. The there could be multiple reasons. Battery, solenoid, ignition switch, or any of the multiple safety switches.

StarTech said:

Hmmm, Ever thought about downloading the schematic? I could post it but I won't.

And that dang black lead from the stator is the AC output for lighting which this mower does not have so of course it is not connected. Someone with a poppy seed brain should been able figured that out by now but that might over tax it.

Oh well back to the dark side [just data collecting] and making parts while watching all the stupid relies to various posts. Just getting sore sides from laughing so much. Most here are just so called mechanics or just part replacers. And they are too scared to actually look up the equipment before replying. This is why I quit helping this forum. I am not going hold their hands and do the work for them without getting paid for it.

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The stator only puts out AC and it’s not for Lighting. The stator puts out AC that goes to a regulator that charges it to DC to charge your battery.

That Guy88 said:

The murray riding mower I have will not all even crank. In the wiring system from the wiring harness to the alternator wire the connecting wire has 3 wires and one of those wires is black which would indicate that might be a ground but I'm unsure of where it goes. Any help is greatly appreciated. Murray riding lawn mower model #309029X92C

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I see you've gotten a ton of replies. Let me ask a question then make a suggestion that has usually pointed me to the problem.
Question: Did it ever crank?
Suggestion: What happened just before it stopped? Did you do something?

Savage3 said:

Please post engine model number and code. We can look at schematic and walk you through appropriate testing procedures.

Put your multimeter on continuity, looks like a little speaker symbol. Touch probes together and listen for meter to make beeping sound.

Next, put red probe on metal surface of solenoid and black probe on negative (black) terminal of battery. Let us know if the meter beeps. This will let you know if you have proper ground.

Next, change volt meter to voltage VDC, same as you used to obtain battery voltage of 12.6 you posted earlier.

Disconnect wire from spade on solenoid, place red probe in female end of wire. Place black probe on battery ground. Turn key to start, ensure all safety mechanisms are met. Ie .....parking brake on, seat down, pto off etc.

Provide voltage reading sir.

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briggs & stratton 12.5 HP model # 285707-0113-01 Murray riding mower model # 309029X92C

jimbir said:

I see you've gotten a ton of replies. Let me ask a question then make a suggestion that has usually pointed me to the problem.
Question: Did it ever crank?
Suggestion: What happened just before it stopped? Did you do something?

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it tried to crank but stopped. and now nothing even happening.

That Guy88 said:

it tried to crank but stopped. and now nothing even happening.

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Check main fuse first, (if good) then perform other testing mentioned in previous posts. We need to know if power is getting past safety devices and on to the solenoid.

If the main fuse is not good, then we have to find a short that's causing the fuse to blow. Please report back sir

Main fuse should be 15 amp, number 4 posted on diagram above.

Savage3 said:

Main fuse should be 15 amp, number 4 posted on diagram above.

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its a 16 amp fuse for the system and still no crank even after grounded the system directly to the frame. just not sure what the problem may be

Savage3 said:

Check main fuse first, (if good) then perform other testing mentioned in previous posts. We need to know if power is getting past safety devices and on to the solenoid.

If the main fuse is not good, then we have to find a short that's causing the fuse to blow. Please report back sir

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I get nothing from the battery to the solenoid no audible click. unsure how to proceed from here.

That Guy88 said:

I get nothing from the battery to the solenoid no audible click. unsure how to proceed from here.

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If the fuse was good, then check each of the three safety switches. Pto, seat, parking brake. If you need specific instructions, let us know.

Did you remember to test the ground circuit i posted earlier? If so, let us know the results.

Savage3 said:

If the fuse was good, then check each of the three safety switches. Pto, seat, parking brake. If you need specific instructions, let us know.

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test with continuity on PTO seat parking brake

All three switches get tested with continuity while disconnected from Battery and circuit.

Watch video first Bud

So, the ground test was good correct?