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Low lift or Gators
#1
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
I have a 50" stamped deck on my rider. I currently have high lift blades which throw the clippings out pretty far. I am looking to mulch with my mower this year. Would gator blades and an open chute be better or a plug and low lift blades to achieve a better mulch and less clippings left behind? Thanks.
Mike
Mike
#2
BlazNT
BlazNT
Either gator blades with a plug or mulching blades with plug.
#3
C
cruzenmike
MTD made a molded deck plug that has a contoured inside part. There is also someone who makes a welded metal one that is a bit more angular. Would I see any benefit to the molded plastic one since I have a stamped deck and it will try to creat less drag or pockets to get clippings caught in? And what do you think of Rotary mulching blades? Thanks.
Mike
C
cruzenmike
Either gator blades with a plug or mulching blades with plug.
MTD made a molded deck plug that has a contoured inside part. There is also someone who makes a welded metal one that is a bit more angular. Would I see any benefit to the molded plastic one since I have a stamped deck and it will try to creat less drag or pockets to get clippings caught in? And what do you think of Rotary mulching blades? Thanks.
Mike
#4
BlazNT
BlazNT
I personally would get factory made plug.
#5
Lawnboy18
Lawnboy18
Gator all the way. Really agressive blade that turns everything to crumbs. I have a chute blocker so I usually go around the yard at light speed in circles to mow it into a pile with chute blocker open. I then go thru the pile with the chute down to turn it into dust. I then do a nice final cut stripping the yard. Get's it looking good.
#6
C
cruzenmike
I would love to have a chute blocker, but I cannot really afford one at this moment. I have put hundreds more into this mower than I even thought I would at this point. I did go online today and order the OEM chute blocker and a set of Rotary mulching blades. I am going to wire brush the bottom side of the deck and coat it with automotive epoxy. I am hoping for a slippery smooth finish that helps keep the deck clean and free flowing. Maybe if it cures and hold together it will get a good wax job or some dry graphite spray before being put back together? Is it wrong that this excites me?
C
cruzenmike
Gator all the way. Really agressive blade that turns everything to crumbs. I have a chute blocker so I usually go around the yard at light speed in circles to mow it into a pile with chute blocker open. I then go thru the pile with the chute down to turn it into dust. I then do a nice final cut stripping the yard. Get's it looking good.
I would love to have a chute blocker, but I cannot really afford one at this moment. I have put hundreds more into this mower than I even thought I would at this point. I did go online today and order the OEM chute blocker and a set of Rotary mulching blades. I am going to wire brush the bottom side of the deck and coat it with automotive epoxy. I am hoping for a slippery smooth finish that helps keep the deck clean and free flowing. Maybe if it cures and hold together it will get a good wax job or some dry graphite spray before being put back together? Is it wrong that this excites me?
#7
Lawnboy18
Lawnboy18
It's totally fine that this excites you! Working on mowers and making them better is just a wonderful feeling!
Those chute blockers are not cheap, but well worth it. I don't know how I could mow without one.
I am not sure about coating the deck with epoxy. It will probably get removed after a while with all the dust the blades pick up. Just use graphite spray.
Those chute blockers are not cheap, but well worth it. I don't know how I could mow without one.
I am not sure about coating the deck with epoxy. It will probably get removed after a while with all the dust the blades pick up. Just use graphite spray.
#8
C
cruzenmike
That was the plan until I found the epoxy spray for only $10 a can. This is the information from Rust-Oleum "Epoxy Paint is a one step epoxy coating that does not require a primer. It give the appearance of a tough, baked on porcelain like finish that provides excellent corrosion resistance. Ideal for metal, aluminum, fiberglass & plastic." Since I had already planned on wire Wheeling the bottom side of the deck to get off the years of caked on clippings (from previous owner) I figured $10 and a little time is a small investment. If this works as it should, the bottom of the deck will be as smooth as glass (well, porcelain)!
C
cruzenmike
It's totally fine that this excites you! Working on mowers and making them better is just a wonderful feeling!
Those chute blockers are not cheap, but well worth it. I don't know how I could mow without one.
I am not sure about coating the deck with epoxy. It will probably get removed after a while with all the dust the blades pick up. Just use graphite spray.
That was the plan until I found the epoxy spray for only $10 a can. This is the information from Rust-Oleum "Epoxy Paint is a one step epoxy coating that does not require a primer. It give the appearance of a tough, baked on porcelain like finish that provides excellent corrosion resistance. Ideal for metal, aluminum, fiberglass & plastic." Since I had already planned on wire Wheeling the bottom side of the deck to get off the years of caked on clippings (from previous owner) I figured $10 and a little time is a small investment. If this works as it should, the bottom of the deck will be as smooth as glass (well, porcelain)!
#9
G
GMoore
G
GMoore
Gator blades are awesome. Mulch plug makes the whole system work. The most important part is cutting the grass frequently, trying to mulch up too much in one cut will leave you with a lot of clumpage.
#10
G
GoPappy
G
GoPappy
Gator blades and a plug do not turn your mower deck into a mulching deck. They turn it into a side discharge deck with the discharge plugged shut. I suspect you will be disappointed with that setup.
A true mulching deck (or a side discharge deck with a mulch kit) creates separate chambers, each of which holds the clippings in and allows them to be chopped up before falling down into the turf.
Just plugging the discharge without using a true mulch kit allows the deck to throw all the clippings over to the discharge side where they will accumulate and leave a trail of clippings behind the right hand side of the deck.
A true mulching deck (or a side discharge deck with a mulch kit) creates separate chambers, each of which holds the clippings in and allows them to be chopped up before falling down into the turf.
Just plugging the discharge without using a true mulch kit allows the deck to throw all the clippings over to the discharge side where they will accumulate and leave a trail of clippings behind the right hand side of the deck.
#11
C
cruzenmike
I get what you are saying. A few things that threw me were that all of the stamped Toro decks (of which I recently owned one) have one single cutting chamber for their mulch kits. The OEM mulch kit for my LTX1050 is just a plug. If Cub Cadet engineered the mower to just be plugged to "mulch" then at that point it's just a matter of what blade to go with? Would the plug simply do better with low lift blades then? The gator style blades, with their extra cutting surface(s) should re-cut the clippings a bit more than a regular high lift blade that is intended to just clear the deck?
C
cruzenmike
Gator blades and a plug do not turn your mower deck into a mulching deck. They turn it into a side discharge deck with the discharge plugged shut. I suspect you will be disappointed with that setup.
A true mulching deck (or a side discharge deck with a mulch kit) creates separate chambers, each of which holds the clippings in and allows them to be chopped up before falling down into the turf.
Just plugging the discharge without using a true mulch kit allows the deck to throw all the clippings over to the discharge side where they will accumulate and leave a trail of clippings behind the right hand side of the deck.
I get what you are saying. A few things that threw me were that all of the stamped Toro decks (of which I recently owned one) have one single cutting chamber for their mulch kits. The OEM mulch kit for my LTX1050 is just a plug. If Cub Cadet engineered the mower to just be plugged to "mulch" then at that point it's just a matter of what blade to go with? Would the plug simply do better with low lift blades then? The gator style blades, with their extra cutting surface(s) should re-cut the clippings a bit more than a regular high lift blade that is intended to just clear the deck?
#12
stevestd
I agree. A dedicated fabricated mulching deck should produce much better results than a stamped side discharge deck with a plug. Otherwise I have wasted the extra money (A$1000.00) I paid for one 10 years ago. I have found that mulching decks need high lift blades to work effectively, irrespective if they are standard or gator . I have tried a lower lift Toro "Atomic" (similar to Gator) with poor results, but these are designed for side discharge, not a mulching deck. I have been unable to source a high lift gator blade for my deck.
stevestd
Gator blades and a plug do not turn your mower deck into a mulching deck. They turn it into a side discharge deck with the discharge plugged shut. I suspect you will be disappointed with that setup.
A true mulching deck (or a side discharge deck with a mulch kit) creates separate chambers, each of which holds the clippings in and allows them to be chopped up before falling down into the turf.
Just plugging the discharge without using a true mulch kit allows the deck to throw all the clippings over to the discharge side where they will accumulate and leave a trail of clippings behind the right hand side of the deck.
I agree. A dedicated fabricated mulching deck should produce much better results than a stamped side discharge deck with a plug. Otherwise I have wasted the extra money (A$1000.00) I paid for one 10 years ago. I have found that mulching decks need high lift blades to work effectively, irrespective if they are standard or gator . I have tried a lower lift Toro "Atomic" (similar to Gator) with poor results, but these are designed for side discharge, not a mulching deck. I have been unable to source a high lift gator blade for my deck.
#13
Ric
What extra cutting surface would you be talking about ? :confused2: What Gator blades are you going to be using?
Ric
I get what you are saying. A few things that threw me were that all of the stamped Toro decks (of which I recently owned one) have one single cutting chamber for their mulch kits. The OEM mulch kit for my LTX1050 is just a plug. If Cub Cadet engineered the mower to just be plugged to "mulch" then at that point it's just a matter of what blade to go with? Would the plug simply do better with low lift blades then? The gator style blades, with their extra cutting surface(s) should re-cut the clippings a bit more than a regular high lift blade that is intended to just clear the deck?
What extra cutting surface would you be talking about ? :confused2: What Gator blades are you going to be using?
#14
C
cruzenmike
I would be using the Rotary 12809. The blade has an edge that goes almost to the center hole, plus the teeth on the back supposedly catch clippings and give them another slice?
C
cruzenmike
What extra cutting surface would you be talking about ? :confused2: What Gator blades are you going to be using?
I would be using the Rotary 12809. The blade has an edge that goes almost to the center hole, plus the teeth on the back supposedly catch clippings and give them another slice?
#15
Ric
OK, you can get those if you want but be aware there not Gator Blades. There a Copperhead Mulcher Blade version of Gator Blades. Gator Blades are made by Oregon and they will have Oregon printed on the label. You can buy those Copperhead Mulcher Blades from Amazon fairly cheap about half the price or less than the Gator blades and my guess is there not a good blade for your LTX1050 anyway.
The problem you will have with Gator Blades or the Copperhead Mulcher Blade version is they don't work the way you think. The teeth on the back do not cut grass, they don't have any cutting edge. There designed to throw the grass up into the bottom of the deck long enough so the cutting blade has a chance to cut the grass again and again up to four times before discharging the grass. (that's how Gator Blades work) You don't need mulching kits or plugs for or to use Gator blades. Your problem will be your mower isn't designed to do that. You'll just end up plugging the deck.
Ric
I would be using the Rotary 12809. The blade has an edge that goes almost to the center hole, plus the teeth on the back supposedly catch clippings and give them another slice?
OK, you can get those if you want but be aware there not Gator Blades. There a Copperhead Mulcher Blade version of Gator Blades. Gator Blades are made by Oregon and they will have Oregon printed on the label. You can buy those Copperhead Mulcher Blades from Amazon fairly cheap about half the price or less than the Gator blades and my guess is there not a good blade for your LTX1050 anyway.
The problem you will have with Gator Blades or the Copperhead Mulcher Blade version is they don't work the way you think. The teeth on the back do not cut grass, they don't have any cutting edge. There designed to throw the grass up into the bottom of the deck long enough so the cutting blade has a chance to cut the grass again and again up to four times before discharging the grass. (that's how Gator Blades work) You don't need mulching kits or plugs for or to use Gator blades. Your problem will be your mower isn't designed to do that. You'll just end up plugging the deck.
#16
C
cruzenmike
Ric,
While I certainly appreciate your help and everyone's else's here, I seem to be either misguided or confused by personal beliefs or objective views. Consider the following:
Current mower - Cub Cadet LTX1050
Mulch Option: OEM part #19A30005100 or MTD part #731-04651
This is just a deck plug that is to be used with the standard 2-1 blades or extreme mulching blades (similar to the Rotary ones I ordered)
Previous mower - Toro SS4225
Mulch Option: OEM part #131-4182
This kit includes two new blades, a deck insert to remove sloping air chamber and kicks for pushing clippings down.
Desired Mower - Ariens Ikon X-52
Mulch Option: OEM part #71514000
This kit includes three new blades and metal plates to isolate each blade beneath the deck.
I know what you are thinking, the Ariens is set up more like a dedicated mulching deck, but as you can see from the other two, there are no individual cutting chambers and differences in how each manufacturer decided to address the desire for someone to mulch with their product. Trust me, I get it; decks are designed to push the clippings out, but if you aren't taking too much off of the grass, even three blades all moving in the same direction in an open stamped deck will allow those clippings to move from one end to the other somehow. If that wasn't the case, wouldn't all mulch kits have to individualize the blades to actually work? Just my thinking, no offense of course.
Mike
C
cruzenmike
OK, you can get those if you want but be aware there not Gator Blades. There a Copperhead Mulcher Blade version of Gator Blades. Gator Blades are made by Oregon and they will have Oregon printed on the label. You can buy those Copperhead Mulcher Blades from Amazon fairly cheap about half the price or less than the Gator blades and my guess is there not a good blade for your LTX1050 anyway.
The problem you will have with Gator Blades or the Copperhead Mulcher Blade version is they don't work the way you think. The teeth on the back do not cut grass, they don't have any cutting edge. There designed to throw the grass up into the bottom of the deck long enough so the cutting blade has a chance to cut the grass again and again up to four times before discharging the grass. (that's how Gator Blades work) You don't need mulching kits or plugs for or to use Gator blades. Your problem will be your mower isn't designed to do that. You'll just end up plugging the deck.
Ric,
While I certainly appreciate your help and everyone's else's here, I seem to be either misguided or confused by personal beliefs or objective views. Consider the following:
Current mower - Cub Cadet LTX1050
Mulch Option: OEM part #19A30005100 or MTD part #731-04651
This is just a deck plug that is to be used with the standard 2-1 blades or extreme mulching blades (similar to the Rotary ones I ordered)
Previous mower - Toro SS4225
Mulch Option: OEM part #131-4182
This kit includes two new blades, a deck insert to remove sloping air chamber and kicks for pushing clippings down.
Desired Mower - Ariens Ikon X-52
Mulch Option: OEM part #71514000
This kit includes three new blades and metal plates to isolate each blade beneath the deck.
I know what you are thinking, the Ariens is set up more like a dedicated mulching deck, but as you can see from the other two, there are no individual cutting chambers and differences in how each manufacturer decided to address the desire for someone to mulch with their product. Trust me, I get it; decks are designed to push the clippings out, but if you aren't taking too much off of the grass, even three blades all moving in the same direction in an open stamped deck will allow those clippings to move from one end to the other somehow. If that wasn't the case, wouldn't all mulch kits have to individualize the blades to actually work? Just my thinking, no offense of course.
Mike
#17
BlazNT
BlazNT
Some decks already have the "baffles" installed. Some you buy them if you want "mulching". But all true mulching blades throw the grass up to be recut by the blades. On gator blades the fins at the end of the blade is turned away from shoot and pointed up to achieve the mulching. Other blades use a long cutting surface and blade and deck design to achieve the desired mulch. I hope this helps you understand it better. Oh the "baffles" are there to keep the grass around the blades so the blades can cut it more than once.
#18
C
cruzenmike
That makes sense. When I had my Toro I completely understood how and why their recycler kit was designed the way it was, but having this Cub Cadet and reading into the different types of blades is what makes it confusing. The steeper the angle on the back side of the blade makes more vacuum which would keep the grass away from the sharpened side of the blade (ideal for throwing clippings far and getting a good stripe). The stock blade looks like a spatula folded up, whereas the Gator type looks the same with some cuts (fins) on it. Without being a physicist or aeronautical engineer, it is hard to completely understand the air movement, geometry and grass trajectory of every blade and in every deck. Starting to over-think this now! I do have the plug, which I can use with any blade, and two different types of blades to try. I guess I could always do some trial and error, but it's not like changing out the blades is quick on this mower. I was hoping to get the correct setup before the cutting season starts up here, but I will just have to see how things play out. Thanks for the help.
C
cruzenmike
Some decks already have the "baffles" installed. Some you buy them if you want "mulching". But all true mulching blades throw the grass up to be recut by the blades. On gator blades the fins at the end of the blade is turned away from shoot and pointed up to achieve the mulching. Other blades use a long cutting surface and blade and deck design to achieve the desired mulch. I hope this helps you understand it better. Oh the "baffles" are there to keep the grass around the blades so the blades can cut it more than once.
That makes sense. When I had my Toro I completely understood how and why their recycler kit was designed the way it was, but having this Cub Cadet and reading into the different types of blades is what makes it confusing. The steeper the angle on the back side of the blade makes more vacuum which would keep the grass away from the sharpened side of the blade (ideal for throwing clippings far and getting a good stripe). The stock blade looks like a spatula folded up, whereas the Gator type looks the same with some cuts (fins) on it. Without being a physicist or aeronautical engineer, it is hard to completely understand the air movement, geometry and grass trajectory of every blade and in every deck. Starting to over-think this now! I do have the plug, which I can use with any blade, and two different types of blades to try. I guess I could always do some trial and error, but it's not like changing out the blades is quick on this mower. I was hoping to get the correct setup before the cutting season starts up here, but I will just have to see how things play out. Thanks for the help.
#19
Ric
There's are a lot of confusion and misguided personal beliefs or objective views about Gator Blades. I'm not trying to sound nasty or offensive here but all those mowers you listed have options to make them mulching mowers, ever ask why? You have the Cub Cadet LTX1050 at the present time that I assume also has a kit that comes with blades.
They all come with blades designed for the mower but there not Gator Blades or Copperhead blades that are 2 1/2 inches wide, twice the thickness and probably twice the weight of your standard blades. The question you need to ask yourself is what is going to happen when you put a blade that is twice the weight and thickness on a spindle which is designed to be used with the blade your removing.
The thing about Gator blades is there designed to work there best and most effectively at or between 18 and 19000 bts and I think your LTX is only something like 16000 bts. That's the reason I said you'll only plug up the deck trying to use those blades. I tried the same thing with my CC LT 1046 and it didn't work either, it only made a mess of the lawn.
Ric
Ric,
While I certainly appreciate your help and everyone's else's here, I seem to be either misguided or confused by personal beliefs or objective views. Consider the following:
Current mower - Cub Cadet LTX1050
Mulch Option: OEM part #19A30005100 or MTD part #731-04651
This is just a deck plug that is to be used with the standard 2-1 blades or extreme mulching blades (similar to the Rotary ones I ordered)
Previous mower - Toro SS4225
Mulch Option: OEM part #131-4182
This kit includes two new blades, a deck insert to remove sloping air chamber and kicks for pushing clippings down.
Desired Mower - Ariens Ikon X-52
Mulch Option: OEM part #71514000
This kit includes three new blades and metal plates to isolate each blade beneath the deck.
I know what you are thinking, the Ariens is set up more like a dedicated mulching deck, but as you can see from the other two, there are no individual cutting chambers and differences in how each manufacturer decided to address the desire for someone to mulch with their product. Trust me, I get it; decks are designed to push the clippings out, but if you aren't taking too much off of the grass, even three blades all moving in the same direction in an open stamped deck will allow those clippings to move from one end to the other somehow. If that wasn't the case, wouldn't all mulch kits have to individualize the blades to actually work? Just my thinking, no offense of course.
Mike
There's are a lot of confusion and misguided personal beliefs or objective views about Gator Blades. I'm not trying to sound nasty or offensive here but all those mowers you listed have options to make them mulching mowers, ever ask why? You have the Cub Cadet LTX1050 at the present time that I assume also has a kit that comes with blades.
They all come with blades designed for the mower but there not Gator Blades or Copperhead blades that are 2 1/2 inches wide, twice the thickness and probably twice the weight of your standard blades. The question you need to ask yourself is what is going to happen when you put a blade that is twice the weight and thickness on a spindle which is designed to be used with the blade your removing.
The thing about Gator blades is there designed to work there best and most effectively at or between 18 and 19000 bts and I think your LTX is only something like 16000 bts. That's the reason I said you'll only plug up the deck trying to use those blades. I tried the same thing with my CC LT 1046 and it didn't work either, it only made a mess of the lawn.
#20
C
cruzenmike
Ric,
The new Rotary blades weigh 940g and the oe blades, which have been sharpened twice that I know of, weigh 720 grams. I am not sure if this 25-30% difference in rotational mass will be significant enough to cause a failure. I imagine that an increase in blade mass on any machine, commercial or not, will lead to blade failure. In this case, the slower than average BTS could help since the spindle shaft on this mower will be spinning significantly slower than one on a commercial unit. But this is all theory; I have yet to try it out. I did look at the manual and there is no "mulch kit" just the plug listed. In fact, Cub Cadet, for the LTX1050 only shows one blade type, the 2-1 that I have on it now. These blades are more of a high lift than a mulch blade therefore with the plug it would not work well. The answer is: oe blade for clean cut but large clippings, low lift with plug for finest clippings, and "gator-type" for slighter smaller clippings than oe blade but with greater dispersal?
Mike
C
cruzenmike
There's are a lot of confusion and misguided personal beliefs or objective views about Gator Blades. I'm not trying to sound nasty or offensive here but all those mowers you listed have options to make them mulching mowers, ever ask why? You have the Cub Cadet LTX1050 at the present time that I assume also has a kit that comes with blades.
They all come with blades designed for the mower but there not Gator Blades or Copperhead blades that are 2 1/2 inches wide, twice the thickness and probably twice the weight of your standard blades. The question you need to ask yourself is what is going to happen when you put a blade that is twice the weight and thickness on a spindle which is designed to be used with the blade your removing.
The thing about Gator blades is there designed to work there best and most effectively at or between 18 and 19000 bts and I think your LTX is only something like 16000 bts. That's the reason I said you'll only plug up the deck trying to use those blades. I tried the same thing with my CC LT 1046 and it didn't work either, it only made a mess of the lawn.
Ric,
The new Rotary blades weigh 940g and the oe blades, which have been sharpened twice that I know of, weigh 720 grams. I am not sure if this 25-30% difference in rotational mass will be significant enough to cause a failure. I imagine that an increase in blade mass on any machine, commercial or not, will lead to blade failure. In this case, the slower than average BTS could help since the spindle shaft on this mower will be spinning significantly slower than one on a commercial unit. But this is all theory; I have yet to try it out. I did look at the manual and there is no "mulch kit" just the plug listed. In fact, Cub Cadet, for the LTX1050 only shows one blade type, the 2-1 that I have on it now. These blades are more of a high lift than a mulch blade therefore with the plug it would not work well. The answer is: oe blade for clean cut but large clippings, low lift with plug for finest clippings, and "gator-type" for slighter smaller clippings than oe blade but with greater dispersal?
Mike
#21
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
UPDATE:
I finally put the Rotary Blades on the Cub Cadet and gave them a try. Here are my observations:
The rotary blades are noticeably quieter than the factory 2-1 blades. They are durable and held up well to sticks and pine cones. Clipping dispersal is moderate, likely between a low lift and high lift. I could not tell a difference in the size of the clipping compared to the normal blades.
Needless to say, I put the 2-1 s back on for now, primarily due to greater discharge velocity and better clipping dispersal. When fall comes I will try to compare the two types of blades again the leave begin to fall.
Mike
I finally put the Rotary Blades on the Cub Cadet and gave them a try. Here are my observations:
The rotary blades are noticeably quieter than the factory 2-1 blades. They are durable and held up well to sticks and pine cones. Clipping dispersal is moderate, likely between a low lift and high lift. I could not tell a difference in the size of the clipping compared to the normal blades.
Needless to say, I put the 2-1 s back on for now, primarily due to greater discharge velocity and better clipping dispersal. When fall comes I will try to compare the two types of blades again the leave begin to fall.
Mike