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Looking for a Zero Turn mower that will last

#1

H

Hal9000

I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.


#2

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.
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Lol, either would be extreme overkill for your lawn. You will be fine with either mower. Take care of which ever mower you decide to purchase and it will last for ever. Personally I don't think you have to spend $4500 on a mower to get one that will last, but if it is in your budget then you will get a great mower.


#3

H

Hal9000

Shughes717 said:
Lol, either would be extreme overkill for your lawn. You will be fine with either mower. Take care of which ever mower you decide to purchase and it will last for ever. Personally I don't think you have to spend $4500 on a mower to get one that will last, but if it is in your budget then you will get a great mower.
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I am open for suggestions on a good mower that is less expensive. From what I can tell you either have the Big Box Store mowers that you will have to wait weeks for them to service if something goes wrong, or you go to an independent dealer which sells low end commercial and up.


#4

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
I am open for suggestions on a good mower that is less expensive. From what I can tell you either have the Big Box Store mowers that you will have to wait weeks for them to service if something goes wrong, or you go to an independent dealer which sells low end commercial and up.
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You are right about that, but you aren't mowing a whole lot. If you can afford one of those mowers then go for it. Should be the last mower you will ever have to purchase if you take care of it. I purchased a higher end commercial 48" ztr mower and only had 1 acre to mow. Two years later I sold my home and purchased a house with 4.2 acres to mow. I'm glad I made the purchase now. Every brand offers a low end commercial mower similar to the ones you are looking at. Hustler, toro, gravely, snapper pro, scag, husqvarna , etc. They are all quality built machines with similar drive trains, and fabricated decks. If that is what you want then I suggest looking around your area to see what brands are available. The quality of the dealer should play into your decision. You can get a very good mower in the $4k range.


#5

Ric

Ric

Hal9000 said:
I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.
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If I had to make a choice I'd buy the Exmark. The spec's on the mowers are not really identical, there trade offs on both mowers, the only thing I can see that the Kubota has over the Exmark are the 3100 drives but it has a B&S engine which isn't worth having. (JMO) The exmark has the Kohler ZT710 which is a far better engine than the B&S but it has the 2800 drives which are top end residential drives but they would be more than sufficient for what your mowing. Personally if I were spending the money your spending on those, I'd go a little more and buy the Hustler Fastrak 48, you'll get the Kawasaki engine which is better than both of the others you'll also get the 3100 commercial drives and little better BTS and a far better built mower, but like I said JMO


#6

S

shiftsuper175607

Hal9000 said:
I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.
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Do you have many trees or obstacles to go around?
I also thought I wanted a ZT. I guess because they are the new fad.
Then I got a mower at our city auction.
I drive/mow with a John Deere LX277 and I really enjoy driving it.
it is not as fast as a ZT, but it steers good and turns good.
I now would consider a 300 series John Deere if I was looking.
Also a regular lawn tractor is easier to work on...IMO


#7

S

Shughes717

shiftsuper175607 said:
Do you have many trees or obstacles to go around?
I also thought I wanted a ZT. I guess because they are the new fad.
Then I got a mower at our city auction.
I drive/mow with a John Deere LX277 and I really enjoy driving it.
it is not as fast as a ZT, but it steers good and turns good.
I now would consider a 300 series John Deere if I was looking.
Also a regular lawn tractor is easier to work on...IMO
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How do you know a lawn tractor is easier to work on if you haven't owned a ztr mower? No hood in the way of the engine with a ztr mower. I have owned both, and I find that my ztr mower is very easy to service. Low end ztr mowers and lawn tractors both have similar drive trains, it's just easier to get to the engine on a ztr mower. Most ztr mowers also have a removable floor panel for easier access to the top of the deck. Which sounds easier to work on to you?


#8

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
If I had to make a choice I'd buy the Exmark. The spec's on the mowers are not really identical, there trade offs on both mowers, the only thing I can see that the Kubota has over the Exmark are the 3100 drives but it has a B&S engine which isn't worth having. (JMO) The exmark has the Kohler ZT710 which is a far better engine than the B&S but it has the 2800 drives which are top end residential drives but they would be more than sufficient for what your mowing. Personally if I were spending the money your spending on those, I'd go a little more and buy the Hustler Fastrak 48, you'll get the Kawasaki engine which is better than both of the others you'll also get the 3100 commercial drives and little better BTS and a far better built mower, but like I said JMO
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Exmark is a very well built mower, as is the hustler and the kubota. All of them are built well. I do disagree with Ric on one thing. I for one don't believe engine is going to be a big issue for the op because he is not even mowing an acre. Won't even put 4 hours a month on a mower like the ones he is considering. Any of the engine options available on those mowers should handle that with no issues. It's not like the op is going to be mowing commercially with it. I can't say that the kohler engine is better than the commercial turf either. Ric bases his opinion of briggs on their lower end engine line, which I don't like either. I also don't believe Ric has any experience with the commercial turf engine, therefore he cannot give an informed opinion. Their commercial turf engines have gotten some good reviews. There are some very knowledgable members on this site that have been using the commercial turf engines for a few years now (mad Mackie for one), and seem to be pleased with it.


#9

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
Exmark is a very well built mower, as is the hustler and the kubota. All of them are built well. I do disagree with Ric on one thing. I for one don't believe engine is going to be a big issue for the op because he is not even mowing an acre. Won't even put 4 hours a month on a mower like the ones he is considering. Any of the engine options available on those mowers should handle that with no issues. It's not like the op is going to be mowing commercially with it. I can't say that the kohler engine is better than the commercial turf either. Ric bases his opinion of briggs on their lower end engine line, which I don't like either. I also don't believe Ric has any experience with the commercial turf engine, therefore he cannot give an informed opinion. Their commercial turf engines have gotten some good reviews. There are some very knowledgable members on this site that have been using the commercial turf engines for a few years now (mad Mackie for one), and seem to be pleased with it.
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I base my opinion on the fact that I've run Kohler for years and never had an issues with any kohler engine. I base my opinion on the fact that I know B&S has never managed to break into the commercial market with any engine they ever made. I base my opinion on days like yesterday when you have probably 20- 25 of 50 post on the forum here with people who have and own the B&S engines and are all having issues with them. Look at the B&S forum, it has 43 pages of problems while Kohler Has 19 and Kawasaki has only 8 pages.... Really makes me want to run right out and buy a B&S... :rolleyes: I base my opinion on working for too many years for the county and seeing to many B&S engines be replaced with kohlers so If he wants a ZT that's going to last I'd stay as far away from a B&S as I could.


#10

S

shiftsuper175607

Shughes717 said:
How do you know a lawn tractor is easier to work on if you haven't owned a ztr mower? No hood in the way of the engine with a ztr mower. I have owned both, and I find that my ztr mower is very easy to service. Low end ztr mowers and lawn tractors both have similar drive trains, it's just easier to get to the engine on a ztr mower. Most ztr mowers also have a removable floor panel for easier access to the top of the deck. Which sounds easier to work on to you?
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OK... you win. I was referring to less expensive parts and more availability of parts on Ebay for example.
No hood on my LX277, so there....hahaha


#11

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
How do you know a lawn tractor is easier to work on if you haven't owned a ztr mower? No hood in the way of the engine with a ztr mower. I have owned both, and I find that my ztr mower is very easy to service. Low end ztr mowers and lawn tractors both have similar drive trains, it's just easier to get to the engine on a ztr mower. Most ztr mowers also have a removable floor panel for easier access to the top of the deck. Which sounds easier to work on to you?
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shiftsuper175607 said:
OK... you win. I was referring to less expensive parts and more availability of parts on Ebay for example.
No hood on my LX277, so there....hahaha
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Shiftsuper I would guess that what you were referring too about less expensive parts and more availability you would be correct, the lawn Tractor would be cheaper too maintain. As far as working on either mower that would be a total toss up, I've had both. Yes you have a hood on the LT but it's a 30 second job to remove it. Same with a deck, remove a couple of pins and slide the thing out and replace what you want and put it back. I can tell there a lot lighter than a deck on a ztr especially a commercial. You can trust me when I tell you some of the ZTR's can be just as big a pita too work on and more expensive. It all depends on the mower you have. Personally I don't work on any, don't have to and don't have the time. They go to the shop.


#12

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
I base my opinion on the fact that I've run Kohler for years and never had an issues with any kohler engine. I base my opinion on the fact that I know B&S has never managed to break into the commercial market with any engine they ever made. I base my opinion on days like yesterday when you have probably 20- 25 of 50 post on the forum here with people who have and own the B&S engines and are all having issues with them. Look at the B&S forum, it has 43 pages of problems while Kohler Has 19 and Kawasaki has only 8 pages.... Really makes me want to run right out and buy a B&S... :rolleyes: I base my opinion on working for too many years for the county and seeing to many B&S engines be replaced with kohlers so If he wants a ZT that's going to last I'd stay as far away from a B&S as I could.
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But do you have any experience with the commercial turf engine? As I said, I don't like the low end briggs engines either, but you can't judge the commercial turf engine by their low end line. You can't comment on an engine that you know nothing about. A year ago I was similar to you in that I was afraid of the commercial turf engine, but you don't read negative reviews on it like some of the other engines. You and that blind briggs & Stratton hatred of yours.:laughing:


#13

S

Shughes717

shiftsuper175607 said:
OK... you win. I was referring to less expensive parts and more availability of parts on Ebay for example.
No hood on my LX277, so there....hahaha
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You didn't say cheaper to work on, you said easier. Btw, if the engines and hydros are the same then won't there be just as many parts available for a low end ztr mower on line for the same price?


#14

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
But do you have any experience with the commercial turf engine? As I said, I don't like the low end briggs engines either, but you can't judge the commercial turf engine by their low end line. You can't comment on an engine that you know nothing about. A year ago I was similar to you in that I was afraid of the commercial turf engine, but you don't read negative reviews on it like some of the other engines. You and that blind briggs & Stratton hatred of yours.:laughing:
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You can argue this all day long but when it comes right down to it there commercial turf engine is just one more attempt to break into the commercial market that never happened. I mean what commercial mowers or manufacturers are running them? LOL even you bought the devil and refused his broth.:laughing: LOL even Cub Cadet wont use B&S on there commercial mowers, even there running the Kawasaki FX and you have to admit that's pretty bad when CC/MTD wont use them.


#15

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
You can argue this all day long but when it comes right down to it there commercial turf engine is just one more attempt to break into the commercial market that never happened. I mean what commercial mowers or manufacturers are running them? LOL even you bought the devil and refused his broth.:laughing: LOL even Cub Cadet wont use B&S on there commercial mowers, even there running the Kawasaki FX and you have to admit that's pretty bad when CC/MTD wont use them.
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I don't have to admit anything. That is a totally false statement. Several brands offer the commercial turf engine on their commercial mower line (scag and Kubota just off the top of my head).You won't answer my question about the engine because you can't. You have never owned a mower with the engine, so how can you give an opinion? you have that hatred for anything associated with briggs. It's narrow minded. I'm no fan of cub cadet, but I would guess they don't have a contract with briggs. You get on here making statements with no proof or knowledge about some of the products that you are talking about. You even got on here talking about how ferris could go under any day because briggs is their parent company, when there are several mower brands owned by other companies. What a rediculous statement to make. Any company could go under, no matter who owns them. My point is that you shouldn't spout opinions about a product you have no experience with (and I mean the commercial turf engine). Mad Mackie is more qualified to give an opinion than you because he has actually used the engine.


#16

S

Shughes717

Btw, Ric

One of the top engines on the commercial market has the briggs name on it. It's called the vanguard. I know who it's manufactured by, but it is still a briggs engine.


#17

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
Btw, Ric

One of the top engines on the commercial market has the briggs name on it. It's called the vanguard. I know who it's manufactured by, but it is still a briggs engine.
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It may be the top commercial engine that Briggs is associated with but it's far from being a top commercial engine in the market. It may have Briggs name on but they only own the marketing rights and they've never made the engine it's a Daihatsu and made in Japan. Briggs also went into business with MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries)in Japan to build there 12hp and under but MHI wouldn't sell them the marketing rights to their engine so the business was dissolved, that's why you don't see any of the smaller VG engines. Lets face facts Briggs just don't know how to make an engine, if they did they wouldn't have to buy all these company's and put the Briggs name on everything.


#18

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
It may be the top commercial engine that Briggs is associated with but it's far from being a top commercial engine in the market. It may have Briggs name on but they only own the marketing rights and they've never made the engine it's a Daihatsu and made in Japan. Briggs also went into business with MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries)in Japan to build there 12hp and under but MHI wouldn't sell them the marketing rights to their engine so the business was dissolved, that's why you don't see any of the smaller VG engines. Lets face facts Briggs just don't know how to make an engine, if they did they wouldn't have to buy all these company's and put the Briggs name on everything.
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How many vanguards have you run? I can tell you from experience they are very powerful, reliable, fuel efficient engines. They are every bit as good as the fx series Kawi engine. You can argue all day long, but the fact remains that you can't back your opinions because you have no experience with these engines. End of story


#19

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
I don't have to admit anything. That is a totally false statement. Several brands offer the commercial turf engine on their commercial mower line (scag and Kubota just off the top of my head).You won't answer my question about the engine because you can't. You have never owned a mower with the engine, so how can you give an opinion? you have that hatred for anything associated with briggs. It's narrow minded. I'm no fan of cub cadet, but I would guess they don't have a contract with briggs. You get on here making statements with no proof or knowledge about some of the products that you are talking about. You even got on here talking about how ferris could go under any day because briggs is their parent company, when there are several mower brands owned by other companies. What a rediculous statement to make. Any company could go under, no matter who owns them. My point is that you shouldn't spout opinions about a product you have no experience with (and I mean the commercial turf engine). Mad Mackie is more qualified to give an opinion than you because he has actually used the engine.
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You can talk all you want about the B&S commercial turf engine, I don't need to own one to know what they are. It just stands to reason if there smaller engines are junk that there others wont be much better.
I'm puzzled though, you talk about how good or great the Briggs is but you purchased a Snapper ztr which is owned by B&S and you had a choice of engine and you got the Kawasaki FX, How come if the briggs is so good. Another thing that I wonder about is if briggs thinks they have such a great product in there commercial engine line up how come they don't use them exclusively on all there mowers like Ferris, Snapper etc. :laughing: Says a lot about there engine when they buy another company's engines to use on there mowers so they can sell them.


#20

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
You can talk all you want about the B&S commercial turf engine, I don't need to own one to know what they are. It just stands to reason if there smaller engines are junk that there others wont be much better.
I'm puzzled though, you talk about how good or great the Briggs is but you purchased a Snapper ztr which is owned by B&S and you had a choice of engine and you got the Kawasaki FX, How come if the briggs is so good. Another thing that I wonder about is if briggs thinks they have such a great product in there commercial engine line up how come they don't use them exclusively on all there mowers like Ferris, Snapper etc. :laughing: Says a lot about there engine when they buy another company's engines to use on there mowers so they can sell them.
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To answer your first ? When I went to purchase my mower I also based my opinion of briggs by their low end engine line. The commercial turf had just come out and there weren't many reviews out on them, so I didn't give it a chance. The second reason is that I had a particular budget and the mower I purchased had the best options available to me for what my wife would allow me to spend. I am a huge fan of the fx series Kawi engine, and if I had to do it again I would still choose the fx series Kawi over the commercial turf engine. However, I do consider the commercial turf engine at least comparable to the fs series Kawi. As I mentioned earlier, my father has an s200xt with the vanguard and it is a great engine. I just couldn't afford a mower with the vanguard.

The reason briggs allows ferris/snapper pro to offer the other engine options is for closed minded people such as yourself. Just like with automobiles, many people are brand loyal and will only purchase a mower with an engine that they know. If they didn't offer all three engine options then they would lose out on the opportunity to sell to those who prefer the other engines. I for one think it is very forward thinking of ferris/snapper pro to offer all three engines. It gives the consumer choice of what drive train they prefer. Why doesn't toro only offer their toro engine? You keep side stepping my questions, just like always. How can you give such an opinion? Have you ever used a mower with the engines in question?


#21

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
How many vanguards have you run? I can tell you from experience they are very powerful, reliable, fuel efficient engines. They are every bit as good as the fx series Kawi engine. You can argue all day long, but the fact remains that you can't back your opinions because you have no experience with these engines. End of story
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Never owned a vg, never liked daihatsu engine either. I own a Ford but I don't need to own a dodge or shove it and lay or gmc to know what they are. I can read and do a little research on things before I buy. Like you say You can argue this all day long and there isn't anything said here that isn't just an opinion. You have the right to yours and I have the right to mine.


#22

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
Never owned a vg, never liked daihatsu engine either. I own a Ford but I don't need to own a dodge or shove it and lay or gmc to know what they are. I can read and do a little research on things before I buy. Like you say You can argue this all day long and there isn't anything said here that isn't just an opinion. You have the right to yours and I have the right to mine.
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I agree, I just try to give an unbiased informed opinion rather than one based with absolutely no experience with the product.


#23

Ric

Ric

Shughes717 said:
To answer your first ? When I went to purchase my mower I also based my opinion of briggs by their low end engine line. The commercial turf had just come out and there weren't many reviews out on them, so I didn't give it a chance. The second reason is that I had a particular budget and the mower I purchased had the best options available to me for what my wife would allow me to spend. I am a huge fan of the fx series Kawi engine, and if I had to do it again I would still choose the fx series Kawi over the commercial turf engine. However, I do consider the commercial turf engine at least comparable to the fs series Kawi. As I mentioned earlier, my father has an s200xt with the vanguard and it is a great engine. I just couldn't afford a mower with the vanguard.

The reason briggs allows ferris/snapper pro to offer the other engine options is for closed minded people such as yourself. Just like with automobiles, many people are brand loyal and will only purchase a mower with an engine that they know. If they didn't offer all three engine options then they would lose out on the opportunity to sell to those who prefer the other engines. I for one think it is very forward thinking of ferris/snapper pro to offer all three engines. It gives the consumer choice of what drive train they prefer. Why doesn't toro only offer their toro engine? You keep side stepping my questions, just like always. How can you give such an opinion? Have you ever used a mower with the engines in question?
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OH ouch, does mommy keep you on a short leash :rolleyes: well that's ok that's why I have the 2000 instead of the 5000 but we don't need to talk about that. I'd consider the commercial turf engine to be comparable to the FR series Kawasaki, I run the FS and that would be insulting.:smile: I really don't think B&S is interested in competing in the commercial mower market anymore, with what I've been seeing and the way they buy crap up my guess is there more competing with MTD and working on the homeowner and selling out of BBS. I think that's why Honda stopped making their riders and concentrated on their small engines. They all figure that's where the real money is at.
Well I gotta get off this thing for a while, Monster week on animal planet is ending tonight and beside we've give them enough entertainment here for a while.


#24

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
OH ouch, does mommy keep you on a short leash :rolleyes: well that's ok that's why I have the 2000 instead of the 5000 but we don't need to talk about that. I'd consider the commercial turf engine to be comparable to the FR series Kawasaki, I run the FS and that would be insulting.:smile: I really don't think B&S is interested in competing in the commercial mower market anymore, with what I've been seeing and the way they buy crap up my guess is there more competing with MTD and working on the homeowner and selling out of BBS. I think that's why Honda stopped making their riders and concentrated on their small engines. They all figure that's where the real money is at.
Well I gotta get off this thing for a while, Monster week on animal planet is ending tonight and beside we've give them enough entertainment here for a while.
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Yeah I rule the roost, but momma rules the rooster.:laughing: snapper pro and ferris both only offer commercial mowers. Don't sell them out of bbs either. You are wasting your time, because your opinion has no basis of knowledge. I gotta go too. We will pick this up later ric. As always I enjoy our battles.


#25

H

Hal9000

Well it looks like there had been a lot of back and forth here and not sure there is any information that shows I should go one way or the other.

Let me pose this question, Is there a mower out there that is closer to the 3000-4000 dollar range, that has a good engine and will last a while (with proper maintenance)?


#26

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
Well it looks like there had been a lot of back and forth here and not sure there is any information that shows I should go one way or the other.

Let me pose this question, Is there a mower out there that is closer to the 3000-4000 dollar range, that has a good engine and will last a while (with proper maintenance)?
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You are going to get a different opinion from everyone on this site. The truth is that all of the major brands offer a similar drive train. They will last if not abused, properly maintained, and properly stored. You should go with the mower you like best.


#27

Ric

Ric

Hal9000 said:
I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.
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Hal9000 said:
Well it looks like there had been a lot of back and forth here and not sure there is any information that shows I should go one way or the other.

Let me pose this question, Is there a mower out there that is closer to the 3000-4000 dollar range, that has a good engine and will last a while (with proper maintenance)?
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If you look at your first post and the two mowers you are looking at: You have a Kubota that has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and 3100 drives and if I'm not mistaken the 3100 drives are commercial drives. OTOH you have the Exmark with a I believe 19hp Kohler engine and 2800 residential drives, it's a smaller engine and residential drives and by all accounts should be a cheaper mower but yet the Kubota is $600 less in price. I think you answered your own question when you said They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines.

To answer your second question yes there are other mowers in the 3 and $4000 price range that would be more than sufficient for your needs. IN the $4000 range I'd look at the Hustler Raptor SD it comes with a 23HP Kawasaki FR691 with a BTS of better than 18,600, 2800 drives and Fabricated decks.


#28

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
If you look at your first post and the two mowers you are looking at: You have a Kubota that has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and 3100 drives and if I'm not mistaken the 3100 drives are commercial drives. OTOH you have the Exmark with a I believe 19hp Kohler engine and 2800 residential drives, it's a smaller engine and residential drives and by all accounts should be a cheaper mower but yet the Kubota is $600 less in price. I think you answered your own question when you said They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines.

To answer your second question yes there are other mowers in the 3 and $4000 price range that would be more than sufficient for your needs. IN the $4000 range I'd look at the Hustler Raptor SD it comes with a 23HP Kawasaki FR691 with a BTS of better than 18,600, 2800 drives and Fabricated decks.
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The hustler raptor would suit the op's needs. I am interested to know what brands are available to the op? He can get a snapper pro s50xt with 3100 hydros and a 19 hp fx series Kawi engine for $4500 (commercial mower). Can get a Husqvarna mz for similar price. Or a scag liberty. There are many options out there. The Kubota or the Exmark would also be good choices. Toro Titan would be another. It boils down to what the op can get, dealer quality, and what he/she likes the best out of the available models in their area.


#29

H

Hal9000

Shughes717 said:
The hustler raptor would suit the op's needs. I am interested to know what brands are available to the op? He can get a snapper pro s50xt with 3100 hydros and a 19 hp fx series Kawi engine for $4500 (commercial mower). Can get a Husqvarna mz for similar price. Or a scag liberty. There are many options out there. The Kubota or the Exmark would also be good choices. Toro Titan would be another. It boils down to what the op can get, dealer quality, and what he/she likes the best out of the available models in their area.
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SCAG, Kabota, Exmark, and Snapper are the options. I actually purchased a SCAG Liberty at the beginning of the season. However, it had an electrical issue from the first mow (would lose power during mowing, battery would die, fuses would blow) and could not be repaired after 3 attempts so the Dealership gave me my money back. SCAG however, told me these things happens and that they wouldn't give me a replacement mower or refund my money. So I would prefer not to go back to SCAG since they don't want to support their products when their are obvious issues.

Now, These dealerships also sell Husqvarna and Hustler. However, every time I talk to them about mowers, they keep pushing the $5000+ mower on me. Telling me that the other mowers are cheaper but you get what you pay for. I feel like I am dealing with used car salesman.

Talking to people about going to a Big Box store to get a mower usually always goes down the path of no service, crappy construction of mowers, bad engines, etc....

TBH, buying a mower has been a very unpleasant experience and I have to get a mower very soon. Otherwise my yard will be a jungle.


#30

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
SCAG, Kabota, Exmark, and Snapper are the options. I actually purchased a SCAG Liberty at the beginning of the season. However, it had an electrical issue from the first mow (would lose power during mowing, battery would die, fuses would blow) and could not be repaired after 3 attempts so the Dealership gave me my money back. SCAG however, told me these things happens and that they wouldn't give me a replacement mower or refund my money. So I would prefer not to go back to SCAG since they don't want to support their products when their are obvious issues.

Now, These dealerships also sell Husqvarna and Hustler. However, every time I talk to them about mowers, they keep pushing the $5000+ mower on me. Telling me that the other mowers are cheaper but you get what you pay for. I feel like I am dealing with used car salesman.

Talking to people about going to a Big Box store to get a mower usually always goes down the path of no service, crappy construction of mowers, bad engines, etc....

TBH, buying a mower has been a very unpleasant experience and I have to get a mower very soon. Otherwise my yard will be a jungle.
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It sounds like you have had some bad experiences with your local dealers. You should look for a dealer who gets good reviews and go talk to them. Dealer support is very important when purchasing a mower. If there are any problems with your new mower you want to know the dealer stands behind the product they sell. I would also stay away from your scag dealer if they wouldn't make it right. All of the other brands you mentioned offer good mowers. If you have a limit on your budget keep to it. You know what you can afford. A $4k mower is more than enough machine for an acre. I mentioned some models to consider. I went with snapper pro because I too had a budget. Got the most bang for my buck, but all of them are quality machines. You just have to go kick the tires on all of them and go with the dealer/ mower you like best. There is no "best mower out there for $4k". They are all well made. The engines and hydros on all are manufactured by the same companies. Once you get past that you are paying for whatever extra features each brand offers and paint color.


#31

Ric

Ric

Hal9000 said:
SCAG, Kabota, Exmark, and Snapper are the options. I actually purchased a SCAG Liberty at the beginning of the season. However, it had an electrical issue from the first mow (would lose power during mowing, battery would die, fuses would blow) and could not be repaired after 3 attempts so the Dealership gave me my money back. SCAG however, told me these things happens and that they wouldn't give me a replacement mower or refund my money. So I would prefer not to go back to SCAG since they don't want to support their products when their are obvious issues.

Now, These dealerships also sell Husqvarna and Hustler. However, every time I talk to them about mowers, they keep pushing the $5000+ mower on me. Telling me that the other mowers are cheaper but you get what you pay for. I feel like I am dealing with used car salesman.

Talking to people about going to a Big Box store to get a mower usually always goes down the path of no service, crappy construction of mowers, bad engines, etc....

TBH, buying a mower has been a very unpleasant experience and I have to get a mower very soon. Otherwise my yard will be a jungle.
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Yes there are a lot of good mowers out there on the market and what the dealer told you was right, you get what you pay for. Now for me when I look at a mower I want to know what is the most reliable mower I can Buy and didn't find that out on a forum listening to peoples opinions that may or may not know what there talking about. I didn't find it out buy listening to dealers either but looking and talking to the professionals that use the mowers 24/7.

Out of the mowers here that have been mentioned there are good mowers. You can buy a commercial mower from most any company out there, they all have one and people do but they mow a few acres here and there but they're not used commercially 24/7 for a lot of different reasons.

When I see and talked to the Pro's I see there Exmark's, Toro's and Hustlers and some Dixie that get used everyday 24/7 and for thousands of hours and the reason they are used is because they hold up and have company's that stand behind there product whether it's a commercial rig which I'm not suggesting you buy or their residential units it doesn't matter. It only stands to reason that if the company's like Exmark Toro etc have a product that the pros rely on that there residential stuff is going to be made to handle any abuse the homeowner will dish out.


#32

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
Yes there are a lot of good mowers out there on the market and what the dealer told you was right, you get what you pay for. Now for me when I look at a mower I want to know what is the most reliable mower I can Buy and didn't find that out on a forum listening to peoples opinions that may or may not know what there talking about. I didn't find it out buy listening to dealers either but looking and talking to the professionals that use the mowers 24/7.

Out of the mowers here that have been mentioned there are so good mowers. You can buy a commercial mower from most any company out there, they all have one and people do but they mow a few acres here and there but they're not used commercially 24/7 for a lot of different reasons.

When I see and talked to the Pro's I see there Exmark's, Toro's and Hustlers and some Dixie that get used everyday 24/7 and for thousands of hours and the reason they are used is because they hold up and have company's that stand behind there product whether it's a commercial rig which I'm not suggesting you buy or their residential units it doesn't matter. It only stands to reason that if the company's like Exmark Toro etc have a product that the pros rely on that there residential stuff is going to be made to handle any abuse the homeowner will dish out.
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Commercial lawn companies use different brands in different regions. Around here you see lawn care companies use ferris, john Deere, snapper pro, hustler, kubota, and a few Exmarks. I have not seen one toro mower in used in my area. They are all built with the same engines and hydros, and all durable. The reason those are used around here is dealer support. Exmark is sold by our local john Deere dealer who has 7 dealerships in west tennessee. There are several good dealers for the other brands as well. My problem with exmark is the same problem I see with john Deere. A little over priced. The you get what you pay for comment doesn't hold much water either. Sure, the higher end mowers are going to cost more than a low end mower, but you can get some brands at a much better price than others.

If you know what you are buying you can get a mower with the same specs for a much better price. For instance, you can get a 61" snapper pro s200xt with the big block vanguard and zt5400 hydros for about $8500, or a kubota z700 series with Parker pumps for a similar price. Go price an exmark mower and see what you can get for that price. Maybe a pioneer s series which doesn't have near as good a drive train. The dealer is the one who stands behind the product to the customer. All of the mowers mentioned have warranties.


#33

H

Hal9000

I have been looking around more and more and came across the Snapper 300Z ZERO TURN LAWN MOWER. 300Z Zero Turning Mower | ZTR Lawn Mowers | Snapper
Anyone had any experience with these?


#34

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
I have been looking around more and more and came across the Snapper 300Z ZERO TURN LAWN MOWER. 300Z Zero Turning Mower | ZTR Lawn Mowers | Snapper
Anyone had any experience with these?
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Yes, it is a high end residential ztr mower. Pretty well built, but I would spend $4500 to $4800 and upgrade to a snapper pro s50xt if I were looking at mowers in that range. You get the heavy duty commercial fx series Kawi engine, commercial zt3100 hydros, and the commercial icd deck.


#35

H

Hal9000

Shughes717 said:
Yes, it is a high end residential ztr mower. Pretty well built, but I would spend $4500 to $4800 and upgrade to a snapper pro s50xt if I were looking at mowers in that range. You get the heavy duty commercial fx series Kawi engine, commercial zt3100 hydros, and the commercial icd deck.
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I found a place that will sell me the 400Z for $3800 and there is a $200 rebate on them. It has the Kawasaki engine. Seems like a decent deal.


#36

Ric

Ric

Hal9000 said:
I have been looking around more and more and came across the Snapper 300Z ZERO TURN LAWN MOWER. 300Z Zero Turning Mower | ZTR Lawn Mowers | Snapper
Anyone had any experience with these?
Click to expand...


I look at that snapper and I wonder why would you buy a mower with a 25 hp engine when it would serve you no purpose in what your mowing and the only thing it will do will cost you more money in gas to operate. The problem I have with Snapper and Ferris mowers Is the fact that I have a hard time buying from a company that went under and had to sell out to another to keep there name and keep there product on the market when they couldn't do it themselves.

If you want to know which engine you want on a mower do a little research first and check the small engine forums here. The B&S forum has 43 pages and 1063 threads, I'd go through the Kawasaki forum first, it only has 8 pages and 179 threads.


#37

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
I look at that snapper and I wonder why would you buy a mower with a 25 hp engine when it would serve you no purpose in what your mowing and the only thing it will do will cost you more money in gas to operate. The problem I have with Snapper and Ferris mowers Is the fact that I have a hard time buying from a company that went under and had to sell out to another to keep there name and keep there product on the market when they couldn't do it themselves.

If you want to know which engine you want on a mower do a little research first and check the small engine forums here. The B&S forum has 43 pages and 1063 threads, I'd go through the Kawasaki forum first, it only has 8 pages and 179 threads.
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Here you go again spouting off about something you know absolutely nothing about. Just because the companies were purchased by B&S doesn't mean they were going under. B&s has owned simplicity, snapper, and ferris since 2003. They are still some of the major brands on the market. The mowers are still manufactured in the same factories they were always manufactured in. How do you know how much more gas it will use? You have never ran one. I have a friend with a s50x that has a 48" deck and a 27 hp B&s els. His mower doesn't use any more fuel than my Kawi. You just get on here and spout about how bad these mowers are without having ever used them. You see very few threads about the commercial turf B&S or vanguard engines. I dont like the low end engines either, but you can't show many threads bashing their high end engine line. One reason there are more threads about b&s is there is a lot more lawn equipment out there with b&s engines than there are kawasaki engines.

You have an unreasonable blind hate for anything that is even associated with b&s with absolutely no experience with some of the products you are bashing. You want to talk about threads about problems with a product. The raptor and raptor sd you are always pushing has more negative threads than just about any other ztr mower on this site.


#38

S

Shughes717

Hal9000 said:
I found a place that will sell me the 400Z for $3800 and there is a $200 rebate on them. It has the Kawasaki engine. Seems like a decent deal.
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Yes the 400z has the kawasaki engine option, but it's the fr series with is the low end residential version. Not a bad engine, but it's not in the same ball park as the fx series. If you have a max budget of $4k then it will be a fine mower. It would handle your property easily.


#39

B

bigd40

got board with the back and forth so i jumped to the end. sory if i missed anything....original question included an xmark pioneer ztr. i have the 60" pioneer. it is pricey and more than u need, but awsome. i have 3 neighbors that own the more affordable quest version. this is more like toro timecutter. all 3 really like theirs. idk if that helps or not.


#40

PVHIII

PVHIII

Hal9000 said:
I have less than a acre of almost flat land to mow. I have been looking at a Kubota Kommander Z122E-48 and a Exmark Pioneer 48'. They seem to be very identical in specs other than the engines. Kubota has a 22 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and Exmark has a Kohler ZT710. Does anyone have experience with either or both? Right now the Kubota is about $600 less in price.
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I think I would consider a Hustler Fast Track..I have a Fast Track SD (2014) 48" cut with a Kawasaki FX 691V 23.5 HP power plant and I honestly don't think I'll ever have to buy another mower and I have about 2 acres of mostly flat lawn to mow.. Research those engines before you pull the trigger... JMO :)


#41

S

Shughes717

PVHIII said:
I think I would consider a Hustler Fast Track..I have a Fast Track SD (2014) 48" cut with a Kawasaki FX 691V 23.5 HP power plant and I honestly don't think I'll ever have to buy another mower and I have about 2 acres of mostly flat lawn to mow.. Research those engines before you pull the trigger... JMO :)
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The Fastrack is a good mower, but over the op's $4k budget.


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