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Lawn Mower Problems related?

#1

G

gbsk

I have had a lawn mower for about 10 years and it has served me well. It is a B & S engine with 3.5 HP and 20 ". Ace is the manufacturer. Two years ago, I tried to prime it and the "balloon" did not seem to have much backpressure. I bought a new diaphragm and it worked well after I installed it. This year it takes many pulls on the cord to start it. I cut the grass today and the mower ran out of gas. I refilled the tank and pull the cord to start it but it would not pull at all. I lifted the mower up and moved the blade and the cord was still stuck or not pulling. How can I fix this?

Thanks
GB


#2

EngineMan

EngineMan

You don't say what type the engine is (model)..! you need to take off the cover, the bit with the pull cord on, after that it may just pop back in (cord/rope) they sometimes do, try that first and if it doesn't come back with a model number which will help us on here to help you.


#3

G

gbsk

EngineMan said:
You don't say what type the engine is (model)..! you need to take off the cover, the bit with the pull cord on, after that it may just pop back in (cord/rope) they sometimes do, try that first and if it doesn't come back with a model number which will help us on here to help you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I did take the cover off. The cord pulled fine with it off. The shaft the cord mechanism hooks onto turns fine counterclockwise but does not turn at all clockwise or the direction the cord pulls. The Model # is 95902; Type 3107 01 Code 93031605. I also cleaned off the spark plug before trying to start it the other day.

Thanks


#4

EngineMan

EngineMan

Have you put it back to see if all is working now...?


#5

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

gbsk said:
I cut the grass today and the mower ran out of gas.
Click to expand...

I assume the engine cut out? And you thought that the mower must have ran out of fuel.

Maybe the engine has stopped because the engine is siezed due to lack of quantity and quality of oil?


#6

Ric

Ric

Have you tried cranking the engine over without the spark plug in. Without the plug it should relieve the pressure, if you can't crank the engine without the plug I agree with pugaltitude it sounds like the engine is seized.


#7

G

gbsk

EngineMan said:
Have you put it back to see if all is working now...?
Click to expand...

Yes, the cord will still not pull.


#8

G

gbsk

pugaltitude said:
I assume the engine cut out? And you thought that the mower must have ran out of fuel.

Maybe the engine has stopped because the engine is siezed due to lack of quantity and quality of oil?
Click to expand...

It takes about 2 tanks of gas to do the lawn. I was halfway through and it was bone dry.


#9

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

Take the top cover back off that has the recoil connected to it.

Try and turn the big nut on top of the engine with the plug out.

Does it turn easily?

If not then engine could be siezed.

You have done well considering its a 1993 engine!!


#10

G

gbsk

Ric said:
Have you tried cranking the engine over without the spark plug in. Without the plug it should relieve the pressure, if you can't crank the engine without the plug I agree with pugaltitude it sounds like the engine is seized.
Click to expand...

I just now turned the shaft with pliers without the spark plug and it turned fine. I did not want to put the top back on in case I have to take it off again and work on it.

Thanks
GB


#11

EngineMan

EngineMan

gbsk said:
I just now turned the shaft with pliers without the spark plug and it turned fine. I did not want to put the top back on in case I have to take it off again and work on it.
Click to expand...

Lets just get this right, you can turn the engine over with the top off (recoil) with a pair of pliers on the shaft, and it turns ok,
When you put back on the lid (recoil) back on, you can't pull the engine over. are we on the right path here...?


#12

G

gbsk

EngineMan said:
Lets just get this right, you can turn the engine over with the top off (recoil) with a pair of pliers on the shaft, and it turns ok,
When you put back on the lid (recoil) back on, you can't pull the engine over. are we on the right path here...?
Click to expand...

I just put the top back on. Before I did that, I checked the cord and it recoiled very easy. The shaft turned with the pliers. However, when the shaft goes inthe recoil area with the top on, it will not pull. I even had my son stand on the front of the mower so it would not lift up and the cord would not pull. Weird.


#13

EngineMan

EngineMan

Is there anyway you can take photos, one of the underside of the lid (the bit with the pull cord) and one of the the top of the engine (the bit that as the shaft on) manual that I have on the 310701 is only showing them fitted with electic start. if I had a photo of the one you have I could lookup in other manual's that should help out here.


#14

G

gbsk

Here is the photo with the underside of the cord pull on the left and the shaft with flywheel on the right. I hope this is what you need.

Thanks

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#15

EngineMan

EngineMan

Yes its much better with a photo, right take out the spark plug, now can you turn engine over easily by the flywheel clockwise by hand.
If not look at the brake band, is it still on with you, check the cable, linkage(s)
(Starter Clutch) The shaft, it works like a ratchet, you should be able to turn it anticlockwise, and by turning it clockwise it should dogin (hold) if not you can take them apart...! by removing the retainer cover from the housing, inside you will see a ball, make sure that it can move freely.
I would say that the brake is still on with you, and thats why you can't turn it to start.

Please look at the photo I have mark it for you....!

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#16

G

gbsk

Thanks for your reply. I think I looked at the things you mentioned. I looked at the brake band and it is on the flywheel but do I need to do anything to it? It just looks like a plastic piece but I did not see a linkage with it.

Thanks


#17

EngineMan

EngineMan

gbsk said:
I looked at the brake band and it is on the flywheel but do I need to do anything to it?
Click to expand...

Question is, does it work when you pull the lever, when pulled brake band will come away from flywheel (make it free to turn)

When you say the plastic piece, I believe you are talking about the air vane (to the bottom of flywheel in photo) for the governor and is not the brake band.

Linkage for the brake band is under the black cover top right of photo, you can also see the cable above oil plug.

Make sure that the brake band is free from flywheel when in start position.

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#18

G

gbsk

I see what you are talking about now. I was looking at the air vane. The brake band is away from the flywheel when I pull down the lever. As soon as I put the cover on top, it willnot pull. Could the cover be pushing the brake band against the flywheel? The cover is very tight to put back on.

Thanks for your help

GB


#19

EngineMan

EngineMan

There is something wrong with the pull start, look at the photo red arrow can you see the bottom left side it seems to be damage, can you have a better look at that, like you say it doesn't seem to work when you put pull start cover back on.

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#20

G

gbsk

As far as I can tell, it is just the spring underneath the white holder for the cord. I do not see any damage.


#21

EngineMan

EngineMan

You should not be able to see the spring under the pulley, and you say that its very tight when you try and put it back on, it shouldn't be tight, so you have two options replace the cover, or take the starter assembly apart.
If you have never taken one apart, take you're time and remember what you do (very important).
1 pull the rope out of handle to be able to undo or cut the knot.
2 bend back one of the two tangs (parts that are over the white pulley) (only one) GRASPING THE PULLER WHICH IS WOUND TIGHT and lift out and remove from the cover, disconnecting spring, remembering where the ends of the spring go's.
3 look for any damage or anything that looks out of place and then clean the spring.

INSTALL SPRING
place a dab of grease on pulley (the side that the spring go's) set pulley into housing and bend bumper tang down. Place a 3/4" square piece of stock into center of pulley hub, GRASPING STOCK WITH A WRENCH WIND PULLEY UNTIL SPRING IS WOUND TIGHT. Then back off pulley one turn until hole in pulley for rope knot and eyelet in blower housing are in alignment.
Spring should be securely locked in smaller portion of tapered hole.
Install rope.

I have done this many times over the years, but if you have never done so I would tell you to take it to someone who has, he will know what to look for and also what to do.


#22

G

gbsk

Engine Man,

Thanks for the reply. I looked at a couple of youtube videos and also wha you said and it looks doable. I have a couple of questions. You said the spring should not be showing. When I push the cord housing in the opposite area of your arrow towards the hole where the rope comes out, the spring will not show. Are you saying that the spring is not wound tight enough? When I pull the cord with the cover off, the rope pulls very easy. When I put the cover back on, thee is not much clearance between the gas tank and other parts and the cover goes on tightly. When I put the cover back on, the cord will not pull at all. It did work before. Do you still recommend that I rewind the spring?

Thanks
GB


#23

EngineMan

EngineMan

Service the starter ratchet there are many video's on youtube to do this, I would still say that there maybe something wrong with the recoil because its only when you put that part back on you have the problem, only one way to find out and that would be to that apart and see.


#24

G

gbsk

I finally was abke to tackle this for the past couple of days. It is hard to rewind the spring. You almost need 3 or 4 hands. It would seem to me that you should see part of the spring under the pulley since the spring would expand whe it is not pulled tight. Maybe I am wrong. The cover and not the spring was tight putting the cover back on. I go the spring wound again with the rope back on. When I pull the rope now, the pulley makes a lot of clicking sounds and when it is all out, it is just slack and will not rewind so I am confused now. What do I do now?

Thanks,
GB

EngineMan said:
You should not be able to see the spring under the pulley, and you say that its very tight when you try and put it back on, it shouldn't be tight, so you have two options replace the cover, or take the starter assembly apart.
If you have never taken one apart, take you're time and remember what you do (very important).
1 pull the rope out of handle to be able to undo or cut the knot.
2 bend back one of the two tangs (parts that are over the white pulley) (only one) GRASPING THE PULLER WHICH IS WOUND TIGHT and lift out and remove from the cover, disconnecting spring, remembering where the ends of the spring go's.
3 look for any damage or anything that looks out of place and then clean the spring.

INSTALL SPRING
place a dab of grease on pulley (the side that the spring go's) set pulley into housing and bend bumper tang down. Place a 3/4" square piece of stock into center of pulley hub,


GRASPING STOCK WITH A WRENCH WIND PULLEY UNTIL SPRING IS WOUND TIGHT. Then back off pulley one turn until hole in pulley for rope knot and eyelet in blower housing are in alignment.
Spring should be securely locked in smaller portion of tapered hole.
Install rope.

I have done this many times over the years, but if you have never done so I would tell you to take it to someone who has, he will know what to look for and also what to do.
Click to expand...


#25

EngineMan

EngineMan

Do it again because you hav'nt done it right, have a look on youtube or like I said take it to someone who has done it before. the notes are from the manual.

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#26

G

gbsk

Engine Man,

I went to a small engine repair shop and aske d the fellow there about putting the spring back on. He said it was very hard even for him. He suggested starting to put the spring on the end of the pulley and not on the cover first. I tried it and it did not work. The I found this video and worked like a charm.
Video: How to Install a Lawn Mower Starter Spring | eHow.com
The problem is that I found no other alternative than leaving the rope on the pulley. When I wind the spring, the rope unwinds the other way and gets jammed up. If I try to put the rope in when I have the spring on, the rope will hardly get through the hole and then almost impossible to make the turn to get on the pulley. I know it would be easy to get through the hole in the cover once I got it on the pulley. Right now I have the rope on the pulley but most of the rope is wound the wrong way since I put the spring on. I do have one of the tabs pushed down to hold the pulley on and a vice grip on the other side to hold it on. Right now AI do not have a job so I cannot afford to take it to the repair shop. Thanks for helping. Someone gave me another mower but that needs repair also. I will work on that now and ask a question about it.

Thanks,
GB

GB

EngineMan said:
You should not be able to see the spring under the pulley, and you say that its very tight when you try and put it back on, it shouldn't be tight, so you have two options replace the cover, or take the starter assembly apart.
If you have never taken one apart, take you're time and remember what you do (very important).
1 pull the rope out of handle to be able to undo or cut the knot.
2 bend back one of the two tangs (parts that are over the white pulley) (only one) GRASPING THE PULLER WHICH IS WOUND TIGHT and lift out and remove from the cover, disconnecting spring, remembering where the ends of the spring go's.
3 look for any damage or anything that looks out of place and then clean the spring.

INSTALL SPRING
place a dab of grease on pulley (the side that the spring go's) set pulley into housing and bend bumper tang down. Place a 3/4" square piece of stock into center of pulley hub, GRASPING STOCK WITH A WRENCH WIND PULLEY UNTIL SPRING IS WOUND TIGHT. Then back off pulley one turn until hole in pulley for rope knot and eyelet in blower housing are in alignment.
Spring should be securely locked in smaller portion of tapered hole.
Install rope.

I have done this many times over the years, but if you have never done so I would tell you to take it to someone who has, he will know what to look for and also what to do.
Click to expand...


#27

EngineMan

EngineMan

http://youtu.be/adnDwQGzcZo


#28

G

gbsk

Engine Man,

I finally got the pulley and spring back on. I asked at a lawn mower repair place and they said that it is very hard for them to put the pulley and spring back on. I asked about putting the rope back on because I had a very rough time just putting the rope through the hole in the cover, much less getting it through the pulley. The repairman showed me some tools that looked like big sturdy dental picks to baby the rope around angles. J also snapped off the end of the spring accidently so I had to file anothe r notch on the spring.

Here is what I ended up doing. I wound the rope on the pulley and taped it with masking tape so it would not unwind. I the fed the inside of the spring through the outer side of the cover through the hole that hooks the other end of the spring. I then attached the inner end of the spring to the pulley and wound it up a few turns. I then pushed the tabs down and stuck the piece of wood in the cogs of the pulley and wound the pulley until it was wound tight. I unwound the rope and spring one rotation.and fed the rope through the rope hole. I put the cover on and pulled hte rope. It would only pull about a foot of rope out. It was thinking that I need to let a lot more rope out before I put it through the rope hole. Is that right? I hope this makes sense.

Thanks
GB

EngineMan said:
how to fix and rewind briggs and stratton pull starters Davidsfarmison[bliptv]now - YouTube
Click to expand...


#29

EngineMan

EngineMan

gbsk said:
Engine Man,

I finally got the pulley and spring back on. I asked at a lawn mower repair place and they said that it is very hard for them to put the pulley and spring back on. I asked about putting the rope back on because I had a very rough time just putting the rope through the hole in the cover, much less getting it through the pulley. The repairman showed me some tools that looked like big sturdy dental picks to baby the rope around angles. J also snapped off the end of the spring accidently so I had to file anothe r notch on the spring.

Here is what I ended up doing. I wound the rope on the pulley and taped it with masking tape so it would not unwind. I the fed the inside of the spring through the outer side of the cover through the hole that hooks the other end of the spring. I then attached the inner end of the spring to the pulley and wound it up a few turns. I then pushed the tabs down and stuck the piece of wood in the cogs of the pulley and wound the pulley until it was wound tight. I unwound the rope and spring one rotation.and fed the rope through the rope hole. I put the cover on and pulled hte rope. It would only pull about a foot of rope out. It was thinking that I need to let a lot more rope out before I put it through the rope hole. Is that right? I hope this makes sense.

Thanks
GB
Click to expand...

Am not sure if I understand you.. you say that the repair shop told you it would be hard for them to do, no its not, anyone who has done it before can do the job in five minute's ten at the top.
from what I can read of this it seems that you have not manage to fix it, if so go back to the last video post and play it again and again until you do it right, if all parts are there and none are damage, its has to be you who is not doing it right. if you can't fix it look out for other one.


#30

C

chance123

I didn't read all the posts but with most recoil starters, if you are just replacing the rope, it is a simple matter to simply wind the starter in the direction of engine rotation until the spring is tight and won't turn anymore. Slowly release the pulley and let the spring unwind just to the point where the hole for the rope in the pulley lines up with the rope hole in the shroud or hsing, and take your new rope with a knot at the end and insert into the pulley hole and guide it through the housing hole and pull it all the way out. when the rope is all the way out, hold the end of the rope and release the pulley, and the taught spring will feed the rope back on the pulley. Be careful not to let the rope go as it will slip through the shroud/hsing. It's best to immeadiately put your starter handle on.


#31

G

gbsk

Thanks for the feedback. I tried getting the cord back on this way. However, I could not navigate pushing the rope through the hole until it entered the inside of the pulley. I could not go beyond the right angle even using an awl pushing it through. I could not even do it with the pulley out of the cover. I finally fed it through the opposite way through the inside of the pulley until it got to the outside of the pulley and just left a couple of inches so I could fish it out after I wound the spring. The spring and cord are wound on the pulley. The cord will recoil when I pull it off the engine.

However, I am back to my original problem. Taking the spring and rope out of the cover and cleaning it did not work. Before the cord would not pull when it was on the shaft. Now it will not recoil when on the shaft. It recoils fine off the shaft. The shaft is turning very easy. I think it is related to the shaft or something driving the shaft. What would be the next step?

Thanks


#32

EngineMan

EngineMan

Did you check the starter clutch (ratchet) you should be able to turn it with two fingers in one direction and not the other, if you can't service it or replace it, thats the only thing left to do.


#33

C

chance123

You can very easily service these starter clutches. Get a 1/4 inch nut driver and remove the 2 small fasteners. Lift the cover off the clutch and you will see 3 or 4 ball bearings.Remove the square ratchet and the bearings. Clean the shaft, bearings, and everything else. DO NOT LUBRICATE! (a tad bit of grease on the shaft only is OK) This only attracts dirt. Reassemble in reverse order. For a quick fix to get you through a job would be to spray some oil into the small hole at the end of the square ratchet. You will probably hear a loud squeel sound later on down the road unless you do the full service as explained above.


#34

G

gbsk

I'm making progress. The ball bearings in the ratchet part were not where they were supposed to be. The rope pulls just fine on the mower. The problem now is that it simply will not start. I thought I would get a new spark plug since it looks old. How do I change the oil in this? I cannot seem to find the hole for the dipstick unless I have to take some parts off. Should I do anything else?

Thanks for all your help,
GB


#35

EngineMan

EngineMan

Have a look under it......:thumbsup:


#36

G

gbsk

Sorry but I guess I am dense. Under "it", do you mean the mower, shroud or something else. I think I can drain the oil under the mower but I am also looking to put some oil in the mower. I did check to see if I was getting a spark by taking it out of the socket and putting the plug near the engine metal and I did get a spark. Is there another reason why it will not start?

Thanks,
GB


#37

EngineMan

EngineMan

If you can't see a drain valve around the engine have a look under the deck there should be one there.
If you have spark make sure you have fuel to the carb, clean the out if needs be.


#38

G

gbsk

I got the carburetor and air filter and diaphragm all cleaned out.and put back together. One thing I noticed is a band ( I don't know the name) around part of the flywheel. It is an arc about 1/5 aroudn the flywheel. It attached to a pin and the other end looks like it attacheds to a pin. I think it may not attach to the other pin because it may not be long enough or if i do get it on, it may be took close to the flywheel on rub on it. Should I put it on the other pin? There is another "arc" on the flywheel that pivots on a screw and the other end attaches to the spring on the carburetor.

Thanks,
GB

gbsk said:
Sorry but I guess I am dense. Under "it", do you mean the mower, shroud or something else. I think I can drain the oil under the mower but I am also looking to put some oil in the mower. I did check to see if I was getting a spark by taking it out of the socket and putting the plug near the engine metal and I did get a spark. Is there another reason why it will not start?

Thanks,
GB
Click to expand...


#39

EngineMan

EngineMan

Please read this

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#40

G

gbsk

Stupid me. All I had ot do was press the brake bar down and put the brake band on. I got it all put together. However, when I put the bolt with the one inch spacer on, I turned it 2 or 3 times with a ratchet socket and not that hard and I heard a pop. now the bolt will not tighten. What should I do? I did try to start it 30 times or so and it "coughed" a tad but would not start. I saw a video about adjusting the points. Is that the next step or something else? I know the carburetor is clean.

Thanks
GB

EngineMan said:
Please read this
Click to expand...


#41

EngineMan

EngineMan

gbsk said:
Stupid me. All I had ot do was press the brake bar down and put the brake band on. I got it all put together. However, when I put the bolt with the one inch spacer on, I turned it 2 or 3 times with a ratchet socket and not that hard and I heard a pop. now the bolt will not tighten. What should I do? I did try to start it 30 times or so and it "coughed" a tad but would not start. I saw a video about adjusting the points. Is that the next step or something else? I know the carburetor is clean.

Thanks
GB
Click to expand...

What you should do next is to go and buy a service book and read it...!

You say you have broken a bolt and ask what you should do next.....well you drill out the bolt (not the threads) you remove the threads with easyout (bolt extractor).
Then you say it will not start, so you are going to adjust the points.....had you look at the type of engine, you will see that that engine does'nt have points.

Make sure you have spark.
Make sure you have fuel to the carb.
Make sure you have compression.
Make sure that the choke is working.
If you hav'nt taken off the flywheel, the timing should be ok, but check the key.
After 30 pulls and not running the spark should be a little wet, if not, look at the carb (no fuel) if too wet look at the spark side (no spark).


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