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This question was raised in another thread about mulching, but it seems important enough to warrant a separate thread. In fact I know it is - because I spent FOUR HOURS this morning tearing out the vile stuff, and it was back-breaking, exhausting work!

If you're going to use fabric around plantings, take my advice and ONLY use it for beds where you have shrubs and trees. Even then, leave a wide berth around each shrub/tree to allow it to breathe, get moisture and expand.

Don't use fabric for perennial beds. You'll suffocate and constrict your plantings.

Two years ago I planted a 40' bed in the front yard (azaleas, hostas, euonymous, japonica, black-eyed susans and ornamental grasses). I spent a small fortune on landscaper-quality, 25-year fabric to cover the entire bed, with cutouts for the plantings. THAT'S what I ripped out this morning, nearly decimating all the expensive plants I'd installed. There are a bunch of problems with this stuff. First, it suffocates the plants - they need air around the soil. Second, it constricts them so they can't branch out and expand/grow. Third, even with the expensive stuff the weeds and plants still grow through the fabric. Granted, there are fewer weeds. But all my expensive plantings began to grow into the fabric - and it's not good growth since the roots are so constricted near the surface. And so it became impossible to cut the fabric back or remove it without extensive damage to the plants.

I would only use this stuff in two ways. First, under large expanses of mulch, but not anywhere near plants. Second, under beds/paths of gravel or other crushed stone.

I don't like the stuff either.I accidentaly mowed some and had pieces of it everywhere....russ

And another issue with this stuff. In two years I had accumulated several inches of organic matter over top of the fabric (mostly from mulched leaves). That organic matter was LOADED with big fat juicy worms that could not penetrate down into the soil where they'd do the most good.

Its the best thing to use under rock mulch! The reason for "permeable" is so moisture can get through it to the trees or shrubbery. ~~ grnspot

grnspot110 said:

Its the best thing to use under rock mulch! The reason for "permeable" is so moisture can get through it to the trees or shrubbery. ~~ grnspot

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Yes, I agree that it's good under stone. But just make sure to keep a WIDE berth around plants so they can stretch their legs and breathe!

And remember there's no more permeable surface than dirt!

The purpose of the fabric is to hold down weeds! A quality fabric can be as close as a few inches from plants, depending on the growth rate of the plant. ~~ grnspot

grnspot110 said:

The purpose of the fabric is to hold down weeds! A quality fabric can be as close as a few inches from plants, depending on the growth rate of the plant. ~~ grnspot

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I think we're agreeing? I'm interested to see if others have had different experiences, so I appreciate your feedback.

Trust me, I'm using the most expensive fabric available. I ordered it in 300' rolls from a landscaping supply company. But it wasn't working. It did keep the weeds down, but I still had weeds. And the plants weren't thriving. So I hired a landscape architect to determine why my bed wasn't working, and the first thing he said - rip that crap out and let your plantings breathe!

Anyway, you're correct - it depends on the growth rate of the plant. Which makes it pretty much unusable for perennial installations. For trees and for shrubs like Azalea, Japonica, etc. - go ahead and use it, but I'd recommend leaving at least a foot radius from the plant, based on my experience.

For large expanses of stone or mulch with no plantings - by all means use it.

But for beds with perennials like flowers, veggies and grasses - don't use it! I made that mistake and paid dearly. In fact, in my vegetable garden (tomatoes, broccoli, peppers, etc), it was a complete disaster and - once again - I had to rip it all out. I had weeds (crabgrass, etc) coming out of my ears and the weeds were twice as difficult to control because they wove into the fabric such that they couldn't be pulled. And my plants didn't do well either.

Here was my point for posting this thread - beware where you use this stuff. In some places it is great. In others, it's a disaster.