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My engine installled on a Hustler has just over 500hrs on it and is starting to burn oil. It’s a little smokey at start up and I’m guessing the valve seals need replacing. This is my work machine so I don’t want anymore downtime than necessary but my question is: should I do anything else while the heads are off and the seals are replaced? There is nothing wrong with the performance and only asking in case this would be an advantageous time to do a freshen up. And if I can order parts in advance because there are known issues, would also save the downtime.

Welcome the advice.
cheers
mat

My usual reply here is " don't fix what aint broke" so I'd start there

Bertrrr said:

My usual reply here is " don't fix what aint broke" so I'd start there

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Too easy. It is definitely a can of worms I want to avoid but if there was something prudent worth money and attention, I would rather do it once. I’ll inspect the valves and assuming all is well just replace the seals.
Thanks.

Do you always replace the head gasket? If it was my landcruiser I would be but does it matter on these engines?

Mad_mat222 said:

Too easy. It is definitely a can of worms I want to avoid but if there was something prudent worth money and attention, I would rather do it once. I’ll inspect the valves and assuming all is well just replace the seals.
Thanks.

Do you always replace the head gasket? If it was my landcruiser I would be but does it matter on these engines?

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If you are going to go through all that time and effort to remove cylinder head, to replace the valve seals, because it is using a little oil, I would say that is a stretch. I would lap the valves, de-carbon everything, and set the valves while your in there. Do you plan on reusing head gaskets?

Valve seats are not a service part offered from Kawasaki and are not replaceable. Though, check with StarTech, I’m sure he can make some from an old piece of pipe.

Please don’t bring personal jabs into this thread.

I have no problem with reusing the gasket unless someone advises against it. As I said, machine is running fine with no leaks. Just want to give it the appropriate tlc. I’m a tight ass but have no drama spending money in the right areas if it will prevent break downs and ensure longevity.

I wouldn't think the seat is a problem - if it's using oil, maybe your valve guides are worn and I think they may be built into the block and not replaceable.

If you are just replacing the valve stem seal why are you taking the heads off? That can be done with the heads still on.

Seals can be replaced with head on but just wondering if inspecting the valves etc at 500hrs is worth it or as Bertrrr has stated, just leave it alone If it ain’t broke.

txmowman said:

Valve seats are not a service part offered from Kawasaki and are not replaceable. Though, check with StarTech, I’m sure he can make some from an old piece of pipe.

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Mad_mat222 said:

Please don’t bring personal jabs into this thread.

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Oh he pissed off because I knew something he didn't but at least I am was willing to share correct info. This is why after this post I will not reply to any thread he post in. It be his and forum lost just like I don't allow PMs and emails after the Administration accused me of dong things that I was not. It cost the forum access to all the service manuals that I have available and any private info I wished to provide. The links to the service manuals had to be sent via PMs as I didn't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have access to them.

It is best I just stop helping out here and start my own forum.

My apologies to all that a piece of dirt on my screen made “seals” look like “seats”.
@StarTech, you are full of yourself and very unprofessional. Your last post proved that.

I have the same 651 kowi on a mid 2010s Toro 50" zt,and mine started huffing smoke at startup around 6-700 hrs,and it shortly got worse until it was taking between a 1/4 up to half a quart to cut an acre of grass... I took rocker covers off and there are no valve seals and no remains of such in the covers,oil,nor bottom end,and I haven't found any replacement kawasaki stem seals or even a blow up that shows them anywhere including the e manual...
I did a leak down test after adjusting the valves to find it was losing cylinder pressure at a steady rate which makes me think that it is the rings as there is zero hiss or compression through any of the valve ports...
Genuine Kowi ring sets are available on fleaBay as well as elsewhere and I'm simply going to go ahead and finish this season with it,and tear it down over winter and do whatever it needs done..
I've spoken to a couple of others with the same engine ,of various different years, who have had the same issue and 1 guy simply found a good used compatible 22-25 hp other brand engine and swapped it in, which makes sense as the new parts costs,plus gaskets,and any machine work would be higher than a decent used engine would cost provided you're mechanically inclined and did the work yourself... If it isn't the rings or cylinder walls then you're looking at new valve guides and their machine shop replacement,(don't have the existing guides knurled, total waste of money long term),or another set of heads...

I purchased these and waiting their arrival. Will let you know how they go.

Genuine seal part number 920490862 off jacks site.

Horizontal V twins smoke a bit on startup...it's just the way they are. I wouldn't do anything unless and until it makes smoke all the time. And it's just a couple of drops getting by the rings while sitting.....nice thin, heated oil. Ever watch a radial engine start up? Same principle.

I’m certainly scaring the mosquitoes away when I kick it in the guts. Takes a few minutes to disappear. It’s only a fairly recent thing that is getting progressively more noticeable. Never smoked new. Obviously just a bit of wear n tear

Mad_mat222 said:

I’m certainly scaring the mosquitoes away when I kick it in the guts. Takes a few minutes to disappear. It’s only a fairly recent thing that is getting progressively more noticeable. Never smoked new. Obviously just a bit of wear n tear

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Rings that have seated and were more effective at the beginning of service life. As the engine ages the rings will wear more and allow just that scant bit of oil to seep past when not running. On startup the combustion gasses pressurize the rings from the piston side and press them into the cylinder wall. Any oil past the rings on the combustion side will have the rings scrape excess oil into the cylinder where it is burned until it's gone. Sometimes after a rebuild with fresh unseated rings and honed cylinder walls, if you don't run the engine under enough load (cylinder pressure from combustion) the cylinder will glaze from the oil and rings will not seat until the cylinder is rehoned. PS....my Kawasaki water cooled is doing the same thing....big puff then that's it. No discernable oil use.

Mad_mat222 said:

My engine installled on a Hustler has just over 500hrs on it and is starting to burn oil. It’s a little smokey at start up and I’m guessing the valve seals need replacing. This is my work machine so I don’t want anymore downtime than necessary but my question is: should I do anything else while the heads are off and the seals are replaced? There is nothing wrong with the performance and only asking in case this would be an advantageous time to do a freshen up. And if I can order parts in advance because there are known issues, would also save the downtime.

Welcome the advice.
cheers
mat

Click to expand...

Mad_mat222 said:

My engine installled on a Hustler has just over 500hrs on it and is starting to burn oil. It’s a little smokey at start up and I’m guessing the valve seals need replacing. This is my work machine so I don’t want anymore downtime than necessary but my question is: should I do anything else while the heads are off and the seals are replaced? There is nothing wrong with the performance and only asking in case this would be an advantageous time to do a freshen up. And if I can order parts in advance because there are known issues, would also save the downtime.

Welcome the advice.
cheers
mat

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Do you need to pull the heads to install the valve seals? Should be able to remove the valve covers to do it. If it still smokes then I would guess that it may need new piston rings.

No need to pull heads. Was just wanting advice on ”while you are in there” jobs. I don’t want to be stripping things twice. 500hrs is not a new engine but it’s certainly not at the end of service life and this machine has been looked after and want to keep it that way. Eg if there is a known issue with valves after 500 and the should be replaced I’m happy to do that now rather than wait for a failure but appears best advice is leave it alone.