Export thread

The title says it all. Something tells me my Lowes Husky tractor is gonna take all day.

A buddy of mine who runs a lawn service is convinced I need a commercial mower. He's probably right. I'm in a smaller town. I have a Scag dealer and John Deere in town. Within an hour I can get to a Toro dealer and Xmark, but I'd rather stay local.

JD guy said he wouldn't go smaller than Z915B, he recommended the Z920M. After I picked my jaw up off the floor when he told me the price I went on over to the Scag dealer. They showed me a freedom Z and a Tiger Cat. The freedom z was a bit over $5k with 52 deck. The other mowers were in the $7-8k range.

So is the Freedom Z enough or should I go ahead and bump up to a real commercial mower? It's a flat yard. 6 acres, 1-2 acres of burmuda roughly and the rest is wild grass, weeds, less dense stuff. I don't want to spend all day cutting grass. And I don't want to be making repairs all the time. I'm leaning towards the commercial stuff, but don't want to overspend.

Well we need more info on the 920M 48, 54, or 60" deck?
What did he price to you for?

Why does everyone always leave out that info, but when they talk about a lesser quality unit all info is there but the serial number?

What is your buddy using in his business? Only 2 dealers is not much to bargain with. Are there places you can't get through with a 60"? Gates, between trees?

I guess I was more interested in knowing if the freedom z would work out or not. I didn't get all the specs. I do know the 915 and 920 had the 54" decks. I'm not sure which engines. I'm going back today now that I've done my homework and accepted the prices. He said 'high sevens' for the 915 depending on options and 'high eights' for the 920. I didn't spec out a specific machine.

The lawn is pretty flat and wide open. I do have a small enclosed area near the house but with a zero turn it shouldn't be a problem. I do have one steep area near the garage, I may keep the husky to go up and down that if the big deck scalps there.

I can drive around and look at some other machines, but when it comes time for service I'd rather not drive an hour each way.

My buddy said he had two $13k machines, some brand I didn't recognize. He also has had Scag stuff in the past and really liked them. I'm admittedly a newb with the commercial grade stuff. I bought my yard snail from Lowes 6 years ago. Haven't had a reason to look into mowers since then. It did my .75 acres just fine.

rprice54 said:

I guess I was more interested in knowing if the freedom z would work out or not. I didn't get all the specs. I do know the 915 and 920 had the 54" decks. I'm not sure which engines. I'm going back today now that I've done my homework and accepted the prices. He said 'high sevens' for the 915 depending on options and 'high eights' for the 920. I didn't spec out a specific machine.

The lawn is pretty flat and wide open. I do have a small enclosed area near the house but with a zero turn it shouldn't be a problem. I do have one steep area near the garage, I may keep the husky to go up and down that if the big deck scalps there.

I can drive around and look at some other machines, but when it comes time for service I'd rather not drive an hour each way.

My buddy said he had two $13k machines, some brand I didn't recognize. He also has had Scag stuff in the past and really liked them. I'm admittedly a newb with the commercial grade stuff. I bought my yard snail from Lowes 6 years ago. Haven't had a reason to look into mowers since then. It did my .75 acres just fine.

Click to expand...

The answer to your question is yes. The scag freedom z would suit you well. If your lawn is flat with no serious slopes or obstacles the freedom z should get the job done. The freedom z is a semi commercial mower made for lawns the size of yours. Would go with the 61" deck though

IMO those deeres are WAY overkill. The freedom z would suit you fine. Or even a lower model Deere. Remember sales men are in it to make money so of course they'll try to up sell you.

It's not just the salesman pushing me to a commercial mower. Here's the breakdown:
(All with 50ish decks)
Freedom Z, 48" deck 18HP Kawasaki engine, 20" wheels $5300
Z915B, 25hp Kohler, 54" deck, 24" wheels, $7500
Tiger Cat 25hp Kawasaki 52" deck $8200
Z920B, 23.5 Kawasaki, 54" deck $8500

My other consideration is just cutting time. All of the commercial mowers are faster than the freedom z.

I walked around the yard, I've got a few spots the 61" wouldn't go through.

I lean towards the Z915B. Overkill?

rprice54 said:

It's not just the salesman pushing me to a commercial mower. Here's the breakdown:
(All with 50ish decks)
Freedom Z, 48" deck 18HP Kawasaki engine, 20" wheels $5300
Z915B, 25hp Kohler, 54" deck, 24" wheels, $7500
Tiger Cat 25hp Kawasaki 52" deck $8200
Z920B, 23.5 Kawasaki, 54" deck $8500

My other consideration is just cutting time. All of the commercial mowers are faster than the freedom z.

I walked around the yard, I've got a few spots the 61" wouldn't go through.

I lean towards the Z915B. Overkill?

Click to expand...

That's all up to you. If you don't mind paying that much then no it's not over kill. I mow 4.2 acres with a 48" snapper pro s150xt. Takes 2.5 hours, but I have a lot of obstacles and some hills. The scag freedom z would handle the job and can cut at 8 mph, but if you feel you need to go bigger then that's your call. All of the mowers you mentioned are good machines.

rprice54 said:

It's not just the salesman pushing me to a commercial mower. Here's the breakdown:
(All with 50ish decks)
Freedom Z, 48" deck 18HP Kawasaki engine, 20" wheels $5300
Z915B, 25hp Kohler, 54" deck, 24" wheels, $7500
Tiger Cat 25hp Kawasaki 52" deck $8200
Z920B, 23.5 Kawasaki, 54" deck $8500

My other consideration is just cutting time. All of the commercial mowers are faster than the freedom z.

I walked around the yard, I've got a few spots the 61" wouldn't go through.

I lean towards the Z915B. Overkill?

Click to expand...

If I were you, I'd spend the extra $700 and get the Tiger Cat. If you're gonna overbuy a bit(and this is coming from a guy that bought a Commercial Gravely for 1.5 acres:0) the Tiger Cat would get you Commercial grade that would last a very long time with your requirements. Of course....I can't ever resist....if you have a Gravely dealer nearby you could easily get into a 52" Pro-Turn 100 XDZ with a Kawa like mine for $7,699 plus tax(current Haggle Free Pricing). Again, a Commercial grade ZTR that would suit your needs. If you're interested in adding Gravely to your demo list, here's a link where you can check out the specs and find the closest dealer and pricing:

Pro-Turn 100 Commercial Zero turn Mower

Thanks. I'll look into it.

Found a World Lawn Cobra here for $6250. Never heard of them. Thoughts?

rprice54 said:

Thanks. I'll look into it. Found a World Lawn Cobra here for $6250. Never heard of them. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

World Lawn is a Chinese company that bought Encore mowers. Encore always made good mowers just had bad dealer network. They got bought out recently so they are now producing mowers under the World Lawn name but are still American made in Nebraska I believe. Encore is still producing mowers under the name Encore but is a division of World Lawn.

rprice54 said:

Thanks. I'll look into it.

Found a World Lawn Cobra here for $6250. Never heard of them. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Heard of them...but have never run across any first-hand reviews by owners so unknown quality/durability even though the specs on their website look good. I would try to find some owners to get feedback from before investing in one.

rprice54 said:

Thanks. I'll look into it.

Found a World Lawn Cobra here for $6250. Never heard of them. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

First time I have ever heard of them, but I just looked on their site. Fx series Kawi engine is top of the line. Hydro gear pumps and Parker wheel motors up to 10 mph also good. The deck is 7 ga. With a 10 yr warranty Which is great. Don't know how good the quality of the cut is personally but the machine looks solid to me. Definitely commercial grade.

Djdicetn/ Shughes have you guys seen Encore mowers by chance? Same guys making World Lawn mowers...OP I would message user Ric because he promoted them in someones thread recently.

DSepe said:

Djdicetn/ Shughes have you guys seen Encore mowers by chance? Same guys making World Lawn mowers...OP I would message user Ric because he promoted them in someones thread recently.

Click to expand...

If my memory serves me right(that's questionable:0) user Ric was pointing out the quality/price of the WorldLawn stander(Venom series) compared to his Toro stander. I do seem to recall, though, that his research indicated that WorldLawn mowers were good bang for the buck. Maybe he'll chime in and edify us.

DSepe said:

Djdicetn/ Shughes have you guys seen Encore mowers by chance? Same guys making World Lawn mowers...OP I would message user Ric because he promoted them in someones thread recently.

Click to expand...

I have no experience with encore mowers. I'm impressed by what what you could get in the world lawn series for the price though.

DSepe said:

Link please. Your saying Encore doesn't make frame and deck anymore? I'm skeptical without proof. Preferably without your 'Murica chest pounding. You own plenty of Chinese junk like everyone else.

Click to expand...

I'm all about supporting U.S. manufacturers, but when the Japanese(Kawasaki) can produce so much better quality of a product I have to digress to trying to get the best my money will buy(like most everyone else:0)

djdicetn said:

I'm all about supporting U.S. manufacturers, but when the Japanese(Kawasaki) can produce so much better quality of a product I have to digress to trying to get the best my money will buy(like most everyone else:0)

Click to expand...

Ahhhh the digression...

Looks like a Tiger Cat is in the works. I keep hearing that I'd like the Kawasaki over the JD Kohler.

Turns out I have some connections with the Scag dealer. Hopefully I can get a little better pricing.

rprice54 said:

Ahhhh the digression...

Looks like a Tiger Cat is in the works. I keep hearing that I'd like the Kawasaki over the JD Kohler.

Turns out I have some connections with the Scag dealer. Hopefully I can get a little better pricing.

Click to expand...

The tiger cat is a very good mower. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Bought the Tiger Cat today. Came home and put it through it's paces. Besides a first awkward 20 min or so I finally got the hang of the Zero turn and quit running into stuff. That thing just flies, probably too fast for the bumpy terrain I'm on. Cut 6 acres in under 3 hours. I'm sure it will get a little better once I get over the learning curve. Cut some real tall/thick stuff too with ease. Glad I went full on commercial. It's a rough bumpy yard, I need all the overbuilt-ness I can get. Also glad I got this one with the springy seat as opposed to the base model JD, I underestimated how much I would appreciate that seat.

rprice54 said:

Bought the Tiger Cat today. Came home and put it through it's paces. Besides a first awkward 20 min or so I finally got the hang of the Zero turn and quit running into stuff. That thing just flies, probably too fast for the bumpy terrain I'm on. Cut 6 acres in under 3 hours. I'm sure it will get a little better once I get over the learning curve. Cut some real tall/thick stuff too with ease. Glad I went full on commercial. It's a rough bumpy yard, I need all the overbuilt-ness I can get. Also glad I got this one with the springy seat as opposed to the base model JD, I underestimated how much I would appreciate that seat.

Click to expand...

The tiger cat is a very good mower. You will get faster every time you mow with it. I try to shave time every time I mow. I hope you enjoy your new mower as much as I do mine.

rprice54 said:

Bought the Tiger Cat today. Came home and put it through it's paces. Besides a first awkward 20 min or so I finally got the hang of the Zero turn and quit running into stuff. That thing just flies, probably too fast for the bumpy terrain I'm on. Cut 6 acres in under 3 hours. I'm sure it will get a little better once I get over the learning curve. Cut some real tall/thick stuff too with ease. Glad I went full on commercial. It's a rough bumpy yard, I need all the overbuilt-ness I can get. Also glad I got this one with the springy seat as opposed to the base model JD, I underestimated how much I would appreciate that seat.

Click to expand...

Congrats on the Scag!!! I take it you got the 52". Did you get the FX691V Kawasaki engine option? That's a fine machine that will cut your mowing time "at least" in half for many years to come!!!!!

P.S.
Do you mind sharing what you got out the door for buying that Tiger Cat???

Took a lot of reading and found it on the bottom of page two on search, but here is another article I found on what I was saying and the proof of what I said, this article also did not mention the seats being made here like the other one I read, so there is a discrepancy talking about the seats:


Worldlawn Rolling Out New Strategy for Encore
by Lisa Danes On Jun 5, 2012
Worldlawn, operated by the Chinese company Jiangsu World Plant-Protecting Machinery, purchased the failing Encore Manufacturing to aid in their plan to expand U.S. operations of Worldlawn and add to the existing product lines.

When news of the transaction spread, industry forums were buzzing with criticism over the Chinese-owned Worldlawn buying up an American company. Critics predicted that the American-made brand would soon be manufactured outside the U.S. It may come as a surprise, but the move will actually be the other way around.
U.S. assembly across the board

A recent interview with Jamie Ware of Worldlawn and Encore revealed that the company will be moving all assembly of previously China-assembled Worldlawn products to the U.S. for assembly in the Beatrice, NE, factory with the Encore brand.

On one industry forum, a site visitor commented: "Maybe they have a trick up their sleeve. Maybe they will offshore everything two years from now. Versus the alternative, it's certainly better to have Chinese companies employing Americans than having unemployed Americans."

At present, all of the company's administrative operations are in Beatrice, NE, as well as the assembly of the Encore brand of products. The company at present is shipping all the American-made parts like wheels, tires, engines and fuel tanks for the Worldlawn brand to China for assembly and then shipping the product back directly to distributors. Soon, Worldlawn will join Encore and be assembled in the U.S.

"Our plan is that in October of this year, we will be moving all assembly from China to Beatrice," explains Ware, marketing manager. "We have done very well this year in keeping up with production to meet demand. The huge disadvantage we have right now is the 30- to 45-day lead time for getting an order to travel here from China."

Ware explains that the lead time played a big role in their decision to move assembly, as well as the considerable amount they will be saving on shipping costs. The company says it is seeing a lot of excitement from dealers and distributors regarding their decision. Time is money for all parties involved, and as the brands grow, equipment needs to be available as soon as possible.

"So far we have been able to meet demand, but we foresee future growth and want to be able to meet it in the future," says Ware. "In this business it depends on the weather. If the season goes longer and we have a late fall, people might want another order. If we can't get it before those 45 days, we might lose that business. Having it here in the U.S. is a huge advantage."

Moving Worldlawn operations will also create jobs in the area. The company currently has roughly 30 employees in Beatrice, NE, and anticipates hiring another 10 to 15 once the Worldawn operations have transitioned over. The company is exploring new facility and expansion options to house Beatrice, NE, operations.
Rebuilding distribution network

Since Worldlawn purchased Encore, they have rebuilt their distribution network and reformatted the Encore brand's distribution style. While Worldlawn will continue to be handled through two-step distribution, Encore has gone to a one-step rep program.

As a result of the distribution changes, some of the original Encore distributors have elected not to return to represent the brand. The company has worked hard to fill the void with new and enthusiastic distributors.

"Some of the distributors were not excited about that program," says Ware. "We have aligned ourselves with some new distributors in the last year. All are very aggressive and as excited about the brands as we are."

One original Encore distributor who has returned to work with the brand is skeptical of how it may play out, saying: "We would have preferred a distributor program. However, we are willing to see how the new 'rep' program might play out. We chose to stay with Encore because of our long-term relationship with the company and their employees, and the fact that the product is manufactured in Nebraska."

Another distributor approached the company to distribute the Worldlawn brand after hearing about the opportunity from another distributorship. Soon, they were asked to add Encore and did so gladly.

"We had been doing Worldlawn for about four months and things had already taken off," says Brett Beddow, the field sales manager with General Power Equipment out of Columbus, OH. "They approached us asking if we would be interested in Encore. Knowing the history, Encore appealed to us because it was always known as an American company. Once they bought the Encore facility in Beatrice, it really formed the Worldlawn U.S. footprint as well. The history with Encore means there are a lot more units in the field for parts and service possibilities for our dealers."
New products and people

When they first bought Encore, Worldlawn purchased only the assets of the business, not the existing products in dealer showrooms. The company continues to service warranties for these products as they aim to grow the product lines. They now have a team of engineers from other mower manufacturers poised to take the companies and their products to the next level.

"In the last year we have hired two new engineers that are currently working on line extensions with some new product development and improvements for both the Encore and Worldlawn lines," explains Ware. "Our plan is to have these new lines up and running for GIE+EXPO in Louisville for the 2013 selling season."

One of the things that attracted Beddow to the brands was their low price point and the variety of products. "The two product lines are not identical," says Beddow. "A lot of companies that have multiple brands offer the exact same thing with a different paint job. These are two completely different units that are rugged, dependable, well-built, and at a price $2,000 less than the competition."

According to Ware, some were still asking for more product options from the lines. That is a request that the company is preparing to meet in their quest to increase the popularity of both brands. They will be expanding both the residential and commercial lines of mowers.

"We have had a lot of dealers and distributors asking for line extensions," says Ware. "We want to be able to go to a dealer and give them a complete line and not just a single commercial mower."

They are seeing excitement among dealers and distributors regarding these changes and improvements. Sales for Worldlawn are up so far this year as both brands have seen a busy season.

"A lot of people are really excited and happy that the brand is back," explains Ware. "For a while they couldn't get service and parts. They can see, with us moving assembly and operations to the center of the U.S., that we are here to stay. Our parent company is making a large investment and they understand what it takes to be competitive in this business."

What I gathered from that article was that it was being assembled in China in 2012, but they were moving back to the U.S. To be assembled. There may be some parts made over seas, but many of the parts are made in the U.S.. The trannys are made by the same companies as the other mower brands. The engines same. Fuel tanks, wheels and tires. The only thing I didnt read about was the chassis. It seems to me that these mowers are just as American made as anything else. Keep getting personal if you want, but it doesn't help you prove your point.

P.s. I also found an article in the Beatrice daily sun from 2011 about the sale of encore to world lawn. Talk about keeping the factory in Beatrice and keeping the employees. Says world lawn began operations in California in 2006, and their parent company is jiangsu group. Many companies are owned by foreign companies. Even caterpillar is owned by komatsu. Doesn't mean world lawn mowers are "china junk" just because their parent company is based there. They employ Americans and the mowers are made here. Saying Kawi is american made and world lawn is china junk is retarded. Kawi is a Japanese company. May be assembled in the us, but why does that make them american made? you don't think world lawn mowers are american made, but you admit they are assembled in U.S.. Hypocrisy is running ramped.

$8k plus tax. 52" deck, Kawi motor.

My lawn snail supposedly has a Kohler 24hp engine but it's clearly less power than the 22 Kawi I just bought.

rprice54 said:

$8k plus tax. 52" deck, Kawi motor.

My lawn snail supposedly has a Kohler 24hp engine but it's clearly less power than the 22 Kawi I just bought.

Click to expand...

Kawi is a great engine. Mine has 20 hp Kawi. I initially thought it may be under powered when I purchased it, but was pleasantly surprised. It handles tall grass with ease. You shouldn't have to worry about another lawn mower for many years. Have you figured out how or make zero turns without making divets? That one took me a while to figure out. Luckily that was on the lawn at my old house.

rprice54 said:

$8k plus tax. 52" deck, Kawi motor.

My lawn snail supposedly has a Kohler 24hp engine but it's clearly less power than the 22 Kawi I just bought.

Click to expand...

Let me try to remember........oh yea, you bought the Tiger Cat(as an aside...users Nwatson99, Shughes717 & Dsepe, you guys need to give up proving who's right about WordLawn & JD ZTR's....it's getting a little old and hijacking too many threads:0)

Back to user rprice54....That's a "fair" price for that Scag and if it has the Kawasaki FX691V I can assure you that you should NOT let the hp rating fool you(it's got a lot more torque than that 24hp Kohler). Horsepower doesn't cut grass....torque does and I can honestly say that I wouldn't trade my kawi for any similar cc sized engine with more hp!!!

djdicetn said:

Let me try to remember........oh yea, you bought the Tiger Cat(as an aside...users Nwatson99, Shughes717 & Dsepe, you guys need to give up proving who's right about WordLawn & JD ZTR's....it's getting a little old and hijacking too many threads:0) Back to user rprice54....That's a "fair" price for that Scag and if it has the Kawasaki FX691V I can assure you that you should NOT let the hp rating fool you(it's got a lot more torque than that 24hp Kohler). Horsepower doesn't cut grass....torque does and I can honestly say that I wouldn't trade my kawi for any similar cc sized engine with more hp!!!

Click to expand...

Amen I was letting it go when I congratulated the OP but Nwatson99 started the name calling and what not so I left my final 2 cents. I think we all know who the aggressor is here. I was just simply trying to correct someone misrepresenting a product. I'm assuming the JD part is for Nwatson or something?

DSepe said:

Amen I was letting it go when I congratulated the OP but Nwatson99 started the name calling and what not so I left my final 2 cents. I'm assuming the JD part is for Nwatson or something?

Click to expand...

We're all big boys and should be able to agree to disagree on certain things. Our real objective on these forums is to help others and taking too firm of a stand and arguing doesn't really help anyone much. I told Nwatson99 that his experienced advice on JD's was a valuable asset to these forums(especially assisting users on the JD Forum)....and if his recommendations of the JD ZTR's prompted a user looking to buy to demo one that's GREAT. The more brands a user looking to buy demos, the easier it will be to choose the ZTR that's just right for his/her needs and budget. I think we ALL can agree on that.....right??? Even user Carscw "kind of" apologized(being the classic Southern Good Ole Boy he is) to Nwatson99 for "bashing" his Z960R. It is a fine machine for those who can afford it(I see a LOT of Commercial JD's on lawn service trailers in my area....and looking at the lawns they cut I can see why they buy them). I won't digress on my opinion that JD's are too expensive for many users but that really doesn't make them a bad ZTR.

djdicetn said:

Let me try to remember........oh yea, you bought the Tiger Cat(as an aside...users Nwatson99, Shughes717 & Dsepe, you guys need to give up proving who's right about WordLawn & JD ZTR's....it's getting a little old and hijacking too many threads:0) Back to user rprice54....That's a "fair" price for that Scag and if it has the Kawasaki FX691V I can assure you that you should NOT let the hp rating fool you(it's got a lot more torque than that 24hp Kohler). Horsepower doesn't cut grass....torque does and I can honestly say that I wouldn't trade my kawi for any similar cc sized engine with more hp!!!

Click to expand...

Don't let Djdicetn tell you guys anything. He hijacks more threads than anyone on here. He's still mad the confederates lost so he brings his frustration here. As for Nwatson he argues anything he can get his hands on "Assembled vs Made in USA"....really? Huffing all that JD paint has made him dull in the head.

DJlawnboy said:

Don't let Djdicetn tell you guys anything. He hijacks more threads than anyone on here. He's still mad the confederates lost so he brings his frustration here. As for Nwatson he argues anything he can get his hands on "Assembled vs Made in USA"....really? Huffing all that JD paint has made him dull in the head.

Click to expand...

Lol. Djdicetn has a point about the threads being hijacked. I will try not to get prompted into anymore arguements by anyone. I am curious to see how the op is adjusting to his new ztr.