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john deere l130 NO CRANK NO START
#1
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
no start no crank ,,,, will do nothing with the key switch except you can hear the fule relay click ,
break and pto and seat and reverse switch are good , hour meter is good
if you jump the soliniod the engine will only crank , but will not start .no spark
if I unhook the key switch then jump the solenoid then the engine starts right up and runs ,
iv checked everything I can think of .. any ideas?
break and pto and seat and reverse switch are good , hour meter is good
if you jump the soliniod the engine will only crank , but will not start .no spark
if I unhook the key switch then jump the solenoid then the engine starts right up and runs ,
iv checked everything I can think of .. any ideas?
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
LawnRanger and I put this procedure together for problems like your's. Follow it and post back with tractor and engine model and serial numbers.
I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things:
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions. Ahem.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and test/verify everything.
Remember, I cannot see what you are doing. You are the eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools I will ask you to use are a test light and a multimeter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, make sure the parking brake is engaged and the PTO switch is in the off position. Physically remove the negative battery cable first and then the positive battery cable and clean both the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush. Reinstall cables after cleaning starting with the positive first and then the negative. Next, turn the key to the run position, check all fuses with a grounded test light should light on both sides of fuse. Check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Believe it or not, this first step will take the most amount of time, usually around five minutes and the rest of the steps can be accomplished in under a minute.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show battery voltage on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring. You should have battery voltage on this small solenoid wire when the key switch is held in the start position.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). You should have battery voltage on this terminal when the key is held in the start position.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). You should have battery voltage during this test.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery. Just like the battery, make sure connections are clean and tight. Very Important!
This procedure is a simple starting point and there is more to it so after you have gone through each of the above steps, let me know what happened when you performed each test. At that point I will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are the eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible. Some lawnmowers use a relay in the starter control circuit so keep that in mind.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. I prefer to use voltage drop tests but some people get too confused over this subject so in an effort to keep it simple, for now, just follow the procedure and report back with your findings.
I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things:
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions. Ahem.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and test/verify everything.
Remember, I cannot see what you are doing. You are the eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools I will ask you to use are a test light and a multimeter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, make sure the parking brake is engaged and the PTO switch is in the off position. Physically remove the negative battery cable first and then the positive battery cable and clean both the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush. Reinstall cables after cleaning starting with the positive first and then the negative. Next, turn the key to the run position, check all fuses with a grounded test light should light on both sides of fuse. Check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Believe it or not, this first step will take the most amount of time, usually around five minutes and the rest of the steps can be accomplished in under a minute.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show battery voltage on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring. You should have battery voltage on this small solenoid wire when the key switch is held in the start position.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). You should have battery voltage on this terminal when the key is held in the start position.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). You should have battery voltage during this test.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery. Just like the battery, make sure connections are clean and tight. Very Important!
This procedure is a simple starting point and there is more to it so after you have gone through each of the above steps, let me know what happened when you performed each test. At that point I will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are the eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible. Some lawnmowers use a relay in the starter control circuit so keep that in mind.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. I prefer to use voltage drop tests but some people get too confused over this subject so in an effort to keep it simple, for now, just follow the procedure and report back with your findings.
#3
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
OK , Thank you very much , I will do all this first thing in the morning and report back , THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME
LawnRanger and I put this procedure together for problems like your's. Follow it and post back with tractor and engine model and serial numbers.
I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things:
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions. Ahem.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and test/verify everything.
Remember, I cannot see what you are doing. You are the eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools I will ask you to use are a test light and a multimeter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, make sure the parking brake is engaged and the PTO switch is in the off position. Physically remove the negative battery cable first and then the positive battery cable and clean both the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush. Reinstall cables after cleaning starting with the positive first and then the negative. Next, turn the key to the run position, check all fuses with a grounded test light should light on both sides of fuse. Check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Believe it or not, this first step will take the most amount of time, usually around five minutes and the rest of the steps can be accomplished in under a minute.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show battery voltage on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring. You should have battery voltage on this small solenoid wire when the key switch is held in the start position.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). You should have battery voltage on this terminal when the key is held in the start position.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). You should have battery voltage during this test.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery. Just like the battery, make sure connections are clean and tight. Very Important!
This procedure is a simple starting point and there is more to it so after you have gone through each of the above steps, let me know what happened when you performed each test. At that point I will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are the eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible. Some lawnmowers use a relay in the starter control circuit so keep that in mind.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. I prefer to use voltage drop tests but some people get too confused over this subject so in an effort to keep it simple, for now, just follow the procedure and report back with your findings.
#4
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
ok all done
1st step cleaned battery cables and terminals on battery with 12.16 volts at the battery
,checked the only fuse I could find it checked good with 12.20 volts on each side
2nd checked voltage from battery to the terminal on solenoid with 12.2 volts
3rd checked small wire on 4 pole solenoid with break set pressed PTO not engaged key in start position and got 10.8 volts , and 10.8 volts on other small wire
4th checked voltage on other big wire on solenoid with a result of 0 volts
5th checked voltage at starter with no voltage at starter with key in start position
checked ground back to battery , this checks out good
I hope I have been clear and if not let me know what other info you may need to help me out , again Thank you very much !!!!
1st step cleaned battery cables and terminals on battery with 12.16 volts at the battery
,checked the only fuse I could find it checked good with 12.20 volts on each side
2nd checked voltage from battery to the terminal on solenoid with 12.2 volts
3rd checked small wire on 4 pole solenoid with break set pressed PTO not engaged key in start position and got 10.8 volts , and 10.8 volts on other small wire
4th checked voltage on other big wire on solenoid with a result of 0 volts
5th checked voltage at starter with no voltage at starter with key in start position
checked ground back to battery , this checks out good
I hope I have been clear and if not let me know what other info you may need to help me out , again Thank you very much !!!!
#5
cpurvis
If this isn't a sticky, it ought to be.
cpurvis
LawnRanger and I put this procedure together for problems like your's. Follow it and post back with tractor and engine model and serial numbers.
I wrote this procedure with tractor style mowers in mind but this works on zero turn mowers as well. For a zero turn mower, the steering levers must be out, parking brake engaged and the PTO switch in the off position. Some mowers have an operator presence switch in the seat and you may need an assistant to sit in the seat while performing the following tests.
Electrical problems ...
If this isn't a sticky, it ought to be.
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
One more test. Turn the key switch to run and jump the solenoid as you said you did in your first post. You should be able to start your unit. If the unit starts, your problem is a bad solenoid, which will need to be replaced.
#7
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
when I set the key to the run position and jump the soilinoid It cranks but will not start ,,, IE no spark ,,, but if I unhook the igniton switch , then jump the solenoid it will start right up and run
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
To me that indicates a possibility of two bad components. Bad key switch and bad solenoid. From the tests I would say the solenoid is bad for sure. I would replace it first and then replace the key switch if needed. Because as a tech, I can control the parks, I have the luxury of swapping out parts, which you probably can not return the purchased parts. I would try one more test on the solenoid before replacing it. Run a jump lead from the positive battery post to the small terminal on the solenoid coming from the switch. If the starter turns over then the solenoid should be good and then I would replace the switch first. Finally, triple check everything we have done to get to this point. These parts can get pricey and I cannot see what is going on, so you must be certain and not trust solely what I am telling you. I was wrong at least one time in the past. Read my signature. Good Luck, maybe someone else has a better idea, we'll see.
After I hit reply, thought of one other possibility. Does this unit have a circuit board mounted inline somewhere after the switch? If it does, stop and post back. If not continue.
After I hit reply, thought of one other possibility. Does this unit have a circuit board mounted inline somewhere after the switch? If it does, stop and post back. If not continue.
#9
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
THanks for your advice ,,, just so you know , I have a known good switch on hand that when I try that I get the same symptoms ,, and as far as jumping the small wire to the solenoid to the battery , I have already did that , and when I jump it to the battery I get nothing ,,
that's why I was kinda confused , because as I was told when I got this mower the solenoid was new ,,,,, it even looks new , but I suppose it ould be bad ,
ill try a new solenoid and report back just to let you know
Again Thank you so very much!!!!
that's why I was kinda confused , because as I was told when I got this mower the solenoid was new ,,,,, it even looks new , but I suppose it ould be bad ,
ill try a new solenoid and report back just to let you know
Again Thank you so very much!!!!
#10
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
The key switch will control engine spark, that is why I am thinking it may be bad. Good key switch, but no spark would indicate bad coil. Just another thought, wish I was standing there, would make it easier.
#11
cpurvis
cpurvis
Probably not the coil, as he says if he takes the ignition switch completely out of the picture, then jumps it, it runs.
#12
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
The 12.2 to 10.8 voltage drop tells me there is some corrosion/loose connectors some place in the system. Going from the battery to the solenoid should cause it to crank the engine. But since you have a 4 terminal solenoid, the problem could be downstream from the solenoid. Some solenoids are wired directly to the key switch, but the safety switches prevent completing the circuit.
#13
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I just broke rule #1 when working with electricity, NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING. I assumed that all connections would have been checked prior to testing. I'm bad. IL makes a good point and I'm going to insert checking connections into the procedure. Thanks IL.
#15
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
yeah , that's what has me fooled , the coil is good , it will run if the switch is unplugged ,, and I have a known good switch that I have swapped out , and I get the same results ,,
but the solenoid is bad for sure so ill replace that and see what happens
but the solenoid is bad for sure so ill replace that and see what happens
#16
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
so every thing starting at the key switch thru the pto switch thru the break switch is good, it is a good circuit ,,, there are two black wires on the other small post of the solenoid , I will double chech to see where they go , ,I do know they are grounded out when I check with a meter ,,,so ill look at those aswell
#17
T
Telesis
T
Telesis
Just a couple observations reading the thread.
In post 4, you indicate your 3rd check showed voltage on both small wires of the solenoid. You should only have voltage on the purple wire. The two black wires on the other side are grounded. The voltage between the black wires and ground should be 0. You may have an open ground. (one of those black wires makes its way to the ignition switch G terminal and the other goes to ground)
In post 7, you stated that if you unhook the ignition switch and jump the solenoid, it will start and run. I'm not sure how it could run hardly at all because disconnecting the ignition switch removes the power source to the fuel shutoff solenoid. When the solenoid is not powered, it shuts off fuel delivery in the carb.
As an FYI, when the Ign Sw is Off, the M terminal with the white wire attached is connected to the G terminal with the black wires attached. The black wires are grounded all the time. The white wire goes to the two coils. When the Ign Sw is Off, the coils are grounded, and hence the motor shuts off. When the Ign Sw is in any other position (run w/lights, run w/o lights, start), the G terminal is NOT connected to the M terminal. This allows the coils to fire. So, knowing this you can test this portion of the Ign Sw by disconnecting it and measuring the resistance between the M and G terminals with the key in all 4 positions. Starting with the key off, you should see 0, inf, inf, inf as you move the key. (inf is infinite or open circuit).
You can continue checking the Ign Sw and verify the start and run operation of it. Battery voltage comes into the B terminal via a red wire. It comes out of the A1 terminal to the yellow wires. If you check the resistance between the B and the A1, you should read inf, 0,0,0 starting in the off position. Inside the Ign Sw, the B terminal also connects to the S terminal that the purple wire is connected to. Checking resistance between B and S, you should read inf,inf,inf,0 starting in the off position. Summarizing, battery voltage is supplied to the A1 terminal(yellow wires) during run and start modes. Battery voltage is supplied to the S terminal(purple wire) only during start mode.
If your solenoid is good, you should be able to jump from the battery to the small terminal where the purple wire connects to the solenoid and the engine should turn over. Assuming the Ign Sw is good, the engine will not start (but will turn over) with the key in the off position, and it should start with the key in either run position. (PTO off, Brake set of course). If the solenoid does not kick in when you do this, either it is bad OR, you have a bad ground (or both!).
Let us know what you find!
In post 4, you indicate your 3rd check showed voltage on both small wires of the solenoid. You should only have voltage on the purple wire. The two black wires on the other side are grounded. The voltage between the black wires and ground should be 0. You may have an open ground. (one of those black wires makes its way to the ignition switch G terminal and the other goes to ground)
In post 7, you stated that if you unhook the ignition switch and jump the solenoid, it will start and run. I'm not sure how it could run hardly at all because disconnecting the ignition switch removes the power source to the fuel shutoff solenoid. When the solenoid is not powered, it shuts off fuel delivery in the carb.
As an FYI, when the Ign Sw is Off, the M terminal with the white wire attached is connected to the G terminal with the black wires attached. The black wires are grounded all the time. The white wire goes to the two coils. When the Ign Sw is Off, the coils are grounded, and hence the motor shuts off. When the Ign Sw is in any other position (run w/lights, run w/o lights, start), the G terminal is NOT connected to the M terminal. This allows the coils to fire. So, knowing this you can test this portion of the Ign Sw by disconnecting it and measuring the resistance between the M and G terminals with the key in all 4 positions. Starting with the key off, you should see 0, inf, inf, inf as you move the key. (inf is infinite or open circuit).
You can continue checking the Ign Sw and verify the start and run operation of it. Battery voltage comes into the B terminal via a red wire. It comes out of the A1 terminal to the yellow wires. If you check the resistance between the B and the A1, you should read inf, 0,0,0 starting in the off position. Inside the Ign Sw, the B terminal also connects to the S terminal that the purple wire is connected to. Checking resistance between B and S, you should read inf,inf,inf,0 starting in the off position. Summarizing, battery voltage is supplied to the A1 terminal(yellow wires) during run and start modes. Battery voltage is supplied to the S terminal(purple wire) only during start mode.
If your solenoid is good, you should be able to jump from the battery to the small terminal where the purple wire connects to the solenoid and the engine should turn over. Assuming the Ign Sw is good, the engine will not start (but will turn over) with the key in the off position, and it should start with the key in either run position. (PTO off, Brake set of course). If the solenoid does not kick in when you do this, either it is bad OR, you have a bad ground (or both!).
Let us know what you find!
#18
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
thank you , I will check this out , and as I stated befor the solenoid is bad for sure , new onw will be here today, and yes , if I unhook the key switch completely and jump the two big teminals on the solenoid the engine starts right up , I didn't let t run long, so possibly its just running on what gas is in the carb bowl ,, but when I get the new solenoid on I will post an up date ,
thank you so much
thank you so much
#19
T
Telesis
T
Telesis
This is not part of your problem, but for the sake of completely checking the Ign Sw and understanding what all the connections 'do', there are two other wires connected to it and they are both yellow/white. They are used for the headlights. Power comes into the L terminal which connects to the A2 terminal. This only happens when the Ign Sw is in the Run with Lights position. Therefore, if you check the resistance between the L and A2 terminals(both have wires colored yellow/white connected to them), you should read inf,0,inf,inf starting in the off position. So that explains what each of the 7 wires connected to the Ign Sw does.
FYI...
FYI...
#20
D
Dustinkerr
D
Dustinkerr
Ok guys First ,, Thnak you all for all the help!!
Second , PROBLEM RESOLVED!!! , I instlled a good Solenoid and still had the same problem ,, however upon rechecking all wireing I did find a broke ground wire on the back side of the engine , was a wire coming off the solenoid ,, thank you so mmuch
Second , PROBLEM RESOLVED!!! , I instlled a good Solenoid and still had the same problem ,, however upon rechecking all wireing I did find a broke ground wire on the back side of the engine , was a wire coming off the solenoid ,, thank you so mmuch
#21
D
Danarobertson
D
Danarobertson
Y problem is I start the mower fine, mow the lawn park it and shut it off. When I go to restart the mower, nothing. I find the 20 amp fuse blown.
#22
D
Divad h
D
Divad h
John Deere Service Advisor 4.0 CCE (Commercial and Consumer Equipment)dealer technical assistance, diagnostics, connection readings, calibrations, interactive tests, specification, tools, assemble and disassemble presented all models John Deere Construction Equipment and some models Hitachi, Euclid, Bell and Timberjack.
#23
M
Mantis Toebogon
M
Mantis Toebogon
What happens if it doesn't start? My L130 starter just spins but won't even turn the motor.One more test. Turn the key switch to run and jump the solenoid as you said you did in your first post. You should be able to start your unit. If the unit starts, your problem is a bad solenoid, which will need to be replaced.
#24
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Starter bendix is shot. Need to either replace the bendix or starter. That is if you know you have a fully charged battery.