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John Deere 116 smoking stator
#1
T
tbetts257
T
tbetts257
After winter, I went to bring my lawnmower into the garage to remove the snowblower. When I hooked up the battery, I did it backwards on accident. After I hooked it up correctly, the wire going into the stator was smoking. It was smoking at a connector before it goes into the flywheel (is this a diode??) I removed the flywheel, and inspected the stator, and there are no problems.
The lawnmower still ran, but I was afraid of smoking wires right next to my carburator. I aplogize in advance for my lack of knowledge with electrical systems.
Any ideas what is going on? This is really frustrating me, and my grass is getting long!
Thanks
The lawnmower still ran, but I was afraid of smoking wires right next to my carburator. I aplogize in advance for my lack of knowledge with electrical systems.
Any ideas what is going on? This is really frustrating me, and my grass is getting long!
Thanks
#2
TheCaffeinatedOne
TheCaffeinatedOne
If it still runs you couldn't have fried things too badly.
The heavy wire that goes to the stator is hot - carrying current generated by the electrical induction between spinning magnets and the stationary wire coils in the stator. If that was shorted to ground I'm not surprised to see a connector smoke; I would have expected to see a fusible link shut things down or a fuse blow. But if the mower runs, it runs. Might want to have that circuit tested to ensure that its diode was not blown.
The other possibility is that a light wire that goes near the stator, but not into it, could have been smoking. That wire would go to the coil that picks up a signal from the magnet on the outside of the flywheel, which feeds the primary coil circuit. The thin wire (if there is one) is connected to a kill circuit and when the mower is shut off, it is intended to be grounded, which causes a short in the primary coil circuit and interrupts the energizing of the coil so the spark plug stops firing. If that wire became energized instead of being allowed to act as a momentary ground, it could have been smoking. The kill circuit usually incorporates a diode to prevent the coil from being energized instead of being grounded - the direct current is forced to move in only one direction. So there could be an issue with that circuit. If so, the motor will not shut off until you choke it or interrupt the spark some other way (as with the old engines from our childhood with the spark plug short circuit tab used to shut the thing off).
As far as smoking wires near the carburetor, I wouldn't get too worried. The realistic issue will simply be that the engine is not running.
The heavy wire that goes to the stator is hot - carrying current generated by the electrical induction between spinning magnets and the stationary wire coils in the stator. If that was shorted to ground I'm not surprised to see a connector smoke; I would have expected to see a fusible link shut things down or a fuse blow. But if the mower runs, it runs. Might want to have that circuit tested to ensure that its diode was not blown.
The other possibility is that a light wire that goes near the stator, but not into it, could have been smoking. That wire would go to the coil that picks up a signal from the magnet on the outside of the flywheel, which feeds the primary coil circuit. The thin wire (if there is one) is connected to a kill circuit and when the mower is shut off, it is intended to be grounded, which causes a short in the primary coil circuit and interrupts the energizing of the coil so the spark plug stops firing. If that wire became energized instead of being allowed to act as a momentary ground, it could have been smoking. The kill circuit usually incorporates a diode to prevent the coil from being energized instead of being grounded - the direct current is forced to move in only one direction. So there could be an issue with that circuit. If so, the motor will not shut off until you choke it or interrupt the spark some other way (as with the old engines from our childhood with the spark plug short circuit tab used to shut the thing off).
As far as smoking wires near the carburetor, I wouldn't get too worried. The realistic issue will simply be that the engine is not running.
#3
C
chance123
C
chance123
After you got it running, was the alternator still charging the battery?. If the diode blew, it will "still" charge a battery, "BUT" when the engine is not running the current will go back from the battery into the alternator. The purpose of a diode is to synthesize DC by allowing the current to travel only "one" direction. (from alternator to battery)
#4
TheCaffeinatedOne
TheCaffeinatedOne
Not sure if this is any help, but ...
Attachments
#5
T
tbetts257
T
tbetts257
Thanks. I'll look into these things when I get home from work. I did fail to mention that the wire smokes when the mower is not running. There is power going to the stator with the mower shut off. This would mean that Chance's guess would be heading in the right track. Agree?
Any idea where the diodes are located on these tractors, or where to start looking? Are they inline?
Any idea where the diodes are located on these tractors, or where to start looking? Are they inline?
#8
T
tbetts257
T
tbetts257
Yea, after checking some wiring diagrams, I figured that out. I cannot find the diode module on the lawn mower. I've checked the wiring diagram, and I'm stumped. I think someone has messed with my wiring before (I've only owned this mower for 1 year).
1. The stator wire has a butt connector to a different wire, and is run straight to the positive on the solenoid.
2. The fuel pump does not have any wires running to it. According to my wiring diagram I found online, the fuel pump and the stator should run to the diode module. I was hoping to follow the fuel pump to the diode module, but that was possible.
3. I followed the wires, and I could not find an inline diode.
Any suggestions? Do I need to install a diode? From what I have learned today, I should need a diode between the battery and the stator to prevent the battery from supplying power to stator. The mower battery did hold a charge last year. Is it possible for the battery to hold a charge for a period of time (8 months) without a diode?
Therefore, I am thoroughly confused. Any suggestions where to go from here?
1. The stator wire has a butt connector to a different wire, and is run straight to the positive on the solenoid.
2. The fuel pump does not have any wires running to it. According to my wiring diagram I found online, the fuel pump and the stator should run to the diode module. I was hoping to follow the fuel pump to the diode module, but that was possible.
3. I followed the wires, and I could not find an inline diode.
Any suggestions? Do I need to install a diode? From what I have learned today, I should need a diode between the battery and the stator to prevent the battery from supplying power to stator. The mower battery did hold a charge last year. Is it possible for the battery to hold a charge for a period of time (8 months) without a diode?
Therefore, I am thoroughly confused. Any suggestions where to go from here?
#9
TheCaffeinatedOne
TheCaffeinatedOne
I think Chance123 nailed it. Does this unit have a remote voltage regulator? It would be behind the instrument panel, probably mounted on the metal chassis. Looks like an aluminum heat sink. I'm not sure, but the diode may be part of that unit or near it (you may find it's called a "regulator/rectifier" which would indicate that the diode is internal - it is what rectifies the current, converting it from AC to DC). This might warrant involvement of a dealer diagnostic effort - if that's what is happening, you can fry stuff unexpectedly. You might hear that a bunch of stuff has to be replaced, not repaired *sigh* but let the dollars guide you on that, as your time is valuable too.
I have a John Deere GT242 that I repowered with a Briggs engine - and tangling with what should have been simple wiring issues humbled me in short order. At one point I thought everything was working fine, and then the computer card on the ignition switch burned up and I ended up having to rewire the whole thing from scratch. Stuff like that is hard to put up with at 11PM when its raining... just sayin.
By the way, consider that the fuel pump may be vacuum powered and not electrical. It would be a square unit about two inches across mounted somewhere on the side of the motor, fed (of course) by the fuel line. That's the most common configuration - my old Kawasaki single cyl. motor had that and my new Briggs v-twin replacement has the same thing. What you may have thought was a fuel pump wire may be instead a fuel solenoid wire - if so it would go directly to the carburetor. The fuel solenoid is a go/no go switch with a spring loaded plunger that interrupts the fuel flow. The idea is that while current is present, an electromagnet holds back the solenoid plunger and fuel can pass through the line to the carb. If current stops ( as when the engine is shut off) the plunger is no longer held back by the electromagnet and being spring loaded, extends like a finger into the fuel line, blocking fuel. Nice safety feature, and was originally designed (by Deere, I think) to keep fuel from seeping into the cylinder head when the unit was off - it was initially an anti-backfire device.
As a temporary measure, you could install a shutoff switch on one of the battery terminals (Tractor supply - about ten bucks) that disconnects the battery whenever the tractor is off. Might want to pick up a trickle charger though.
I have a John Deere GT242 that I repowered with a Briggs engine - and tangling with what should have been simple wiring issues humbled me in short order. At one point I thought everything was working fine, and then the computer card on the ignition switch burned up and I ended up having to rewire the whole thing from scratch. Stuff like that is hard to put up with at 11PM when its raining... just sayin.
By the way, consider that the fuel pump may be vacuum powered and not electrical. It would be a square unit about two inches across mounted somewhere on the side of the motor, fed (of course) by the fuel line. That's the most common configuration - my old Kawasaki single cyl. motor had that and my new Briggs v-twin replacement has the same thing. What you may have thought was a fuel pump wire may be instead a fuel solenoid wire - if so it would go directly to the carburetor. The fuel solenoid is a go/no go switch with a spring loaded plunger that interrupts the fuel flow. The idea is that while current is present, an electromagnet holds back the solenoid plunger and fuel can pass through the line to the carb. If current stops ( as when the engine is shut off) the plunger is no longer held back by the electromagnet and being spring loaded, extends like a finger into the fuel line, blocking fuel. Nice safety feature, and was originally designed (by Deere, I think) to keep fuel from seeping into the cylinder head when the unit was off - it was initially an anti-backfire device.
As a temporary measure, you could install a shutoff switch on one of the battery terminals (Tractor supply - about ten bucks) that disconnects the battery whenever the tractor is off. Might want to pick up a trickle charger though.
#10
TheCaffeinatedOne
TheCaffeinatedOne
This Youtube guy might be helpful as well - 116 vids.
John Deere ,116H fuel pumps - YouTube
And this might be helpful as well -
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/johndeere/116_WW_15.gif (diagram only)
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/jo...wer-deck-parts-c--1_185531_185532_185634.html (full page)
John Deere ,116H fuel pumps - YouTube
And this might be helpful as well -
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/johndeere/116_WW_15.gif (diagram only)
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/jo...wer-deck-parts-c--1_185531_185532_185634.html (full page)
#11
T
tbetts257
The video has supported my idea that the electric fuel pump is not hooked up. There are two fuel pumps, one electric, one vaccuum. Whoever owned this mower before decided to disconnect the electric pump. This is not the problem whatsoever. I was just trying to trace wires and noticed someone hacked up my wiring.
I know that I can install a shutoff switch and everything, but I would like to fix it correctly so I don't have to haul my battery charger around. I'm sure you understand this. I haven't seen a voltage regulator on this mower, but I will look tonight. I'm wondering if I were to just install a diode inline with the stator if that would solve my problems. Also, I don't understand how this could just happen randomly. Seems strange.
T
tbetts257
I think Chance123 nailed it. Does this unit have a remote voltage regulator? It would be behind the instrument panel, probably mounted on the metal chassis. Looks like an aluminum heat sink. I'm not sure, but the diode may be part of that unit or near it (you may find it's called a "regulator/rectifier" which would indicate that the diode is internal - it is what rectifies the current, converting it from AC to DC). This might warrant involvement of a dealer diagnostic effort - if that's what is happening, you can fry stuff unexpectedly. You might hear that a bunch of stuff has to be replaced, not repaired *sigh* but let the dollars guide you on that, as your time is valuable too.
I have a John Deere GT242 that I repowered with a Briggs engine - and tangling with what should have been simple wiring issues humbled me in short order. At one point I thought everything was working fine, and then the computer card on the ignition switch burned up and I ended up having to rewire the whole thing from scratch. Stuff like that is hard to put up with at 11PM when its raining... just sayin.
By the way, consider that the fuel pump may be vacuum powered and not electrical. It would be a square unit about two inches across mounted somewhere on the side of the motor, fed (of course) by the fuel line. That's the most common configuration - my old Kawasaki single cyl. motor had that and my new Briggs v-twin replacement has the same thing. What you may have thought was a fuel pump wire may be instead a fuel solenoid wire - if so it would go directly to the carburetor. The fuel solenoid is a go/no go switch with a spring loaded plunger that interrupts the fuel flow. The idea is that while current is present, an electromagnet holds back the solenoid plunger and fuel can pass through the line to the carb. If current stops ( as when the engine is shut off) the plunger is no longer held back by the electromagnet and being spring loaded, extends like a finger into the fuel line, blocking fuel. Nice safety feature, and was originally designed (by Deere, I think) to keep fuel from seeping into the cylinder head when the unit was off - it was initially an anti-backfire device.
As a temporary measure, you could install a shutoff switch on one of the battery terminals (Tractor supply - about ten bucks) that disconnects the battery whenever the tractor is off. Might want to pick up a trickle charger though.
The video has supported my idea that the electric fuel pump is not hooked up. There are two fuel pumps, one electric, one vaccuum. Whoever owned this mower before decided to disconnect the electric pump. This is not the problem whatsoever. I was just trying to trace wires and noticed someone hacked up my wiring.
I know that I can install a shutoff switch and everything, but I would like to fix it correctly so I don't have to haul my battery charger around. I'm sure you understand this. I haven't seen a voltage regulator on this mower, but I will look tonight. I'm wondering if I were to just install a diode inline with the stator if that would solve my problems. Also, I don't understand how this could just happen randomly. Seems strange.
#12
T
tbetts257
T
tbetts257
I could not find a voltage regulator. I looked at the wiring diagram you sent me yesterday, and it shows an inline diode and a diode module. I could not find either. I did completely trace the stator wire, and no diode is present.
Just to get by, I installed a male/female terminal connectors inline with the stator, and I will just diconnect the stator when the mower is not running.
Any other thoughts?
Just to get by, I installed a male/female terminal connectors inline with the stator, and I will just diconnect the stator when the mower is not running.
Any other thoughts?
#13
TheCaffeinatedOne
TheCaffeinatedOne
I suppose it could be unregulated. Do you have lights? If unregulated you'd probably see brighter lights with higher rpms.
Here's a Briggs troubleshooting flow chart. I also sent you a PM with some more resources at other sites.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1yOWJubmtDTC1tak0/edit
Here's a Briggs troubleshooting flow chart. I also sent you a PM with some more resources at other sites.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1yOWJubmtDTC1tak0/edit
#14
T
tbetts257
This is exactly what I was looking for! It turns out that the connector that I thought was burned up, was actually the diode. It was melted so bad I couldn't tell. Now I just need to find that diode and I SHOULD be set. Thanks! :wink:
T
tbetts257
I suppose it could be unregulated. Do you have lights? If unregulated you'd probably see brighter lights with higher rpms.
Here's a Briggs troubleshooting flow chart. I also sent you a PM with some more resources at other sites.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1yOWJubmtDTC1tak0/edit
This is exactly what I was looking for! It turns out that the connector that I thought was burned up, was actually the diode. It was melted so bad I couldn't tell. Now I just need to find that diode and I SHOULD be set. Thanks! :wink: