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Lets see I bought the mower used, after a year the mower had a knocking sound, I broke down the engine and rebuilt it, new lower, bored out the upper in installed a nice sleeve then put everything back together and then ran into problems with torquing the head down, it seems the specs that I found called for 30 ftlbs on the four bolts in a cross pattern, but it seemed to loose so that there was leakage out the bottom on the mower frame, so I replaced the gasket with a new one, torqued it down a bit more, and still a little leak, so I would start briefly and torque it down bit by bit until there was no leaking, and then buttoned it down and it worked well all season aside from a governor problem. Now this season on the second mow it started to spray gas our again. So what gives, am I not getting the right torque, or do I have a warped surface? I checked all that when I had it apart and it all checked out seemingly. Also ever since I rebuilt it I cant seem to get the governor right, its either working or its revving out of control and I have to bring the throttle all the way down to slow it down, its a constant up and down with the throttle to get it right. Now im no small engine professional as this was my first engine rebuild for combustion, I had my neighbor over seeing it, did a lot of research and stuff and part of it was for fun.
So does anyone have a torque spec that is for sure accurate? I mean 30lbs seems low, as an aluminum bike stem is often torqued to 45lbs. And for the governor, I think its likely something is hung up on the inside of the case maybe? I need someone with experience here to offer some direction. I just not sure if this is something systemic that im overlooking here.

Oh and im new to the forum thanks guys
Collins

Im looking at this right now, all looks very familiar as i used replacement parts on line for my parts, so this is not new

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...-stx38-13-horspower-inner-governor-issue.html

I do like ereplacementparts listings a bit better, but what the diagram does not show on #13 (governor gear assembly) is the inside of it its conical, and has what looks like a toggle bolt type set up which I presume operates by centrifugal force, but im still not clear on its supposed function. so when the mower runs over a clump of thick grass, the governor increases the rps to accommodate the added stress?

in addition I used this very informative page to help adjust the governor sooo
http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/carbfuel.htm

Maybe this Kohler service manual will answer your questions.

http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opee..._CV11_thru_CV16_CV460_thru_CV495_DATE4_11.pdf

wantabe23 said:

Im looking at this right now, all looks very familiar as i used replacement parts on line for my parts, so this is not new

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...-stx38-13-horspower-inner-governor-issue.html

I do like ereplacementparts listings a bit better, but what the diagram does not show on #13 (governor gear assembly) is the inside of it its conical, and has what looks like a toggle bolt type set up which I presume operates by centrifugal force, but im still not clear on its supposed function. so when the mower runs over a clump of thick grass, the governor increases the rps to accommodate the added stress?

in addition I used this very informative page to help adjust the governor sooo
Information about the Kohler Carburetor, Various Fuels and Fuel Systems

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Did you loose the very thin washer that goes under the governor gear, or was it not there?

Rivets said:

Maybe this Kohler service manual will answer your questions.

http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opee..._CV11_thru_CV16_CV460_thru_CV495_DATE4_11.pdf

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yes,I used this manual for the rebuild, thank you.

wjjones said:

Did you loose the very thin washer that goes under the governor gear, or was it not there?

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no I seemed to get it back on there, however, the governor arm will slide in and out of the block about 1/4 " which seems maybe a bit loose? Ill crack into it on Sunday a bit so hopefully Ill get more info and picks. I think Ill end up taking every thing apart again and checking all the torque specks, and looking at the conical governor gear and see if those metal arms are sticking or something. Ill take picks throughout the process, hopefully a mechanic can give me some tips. I know I did place the piston upside down (didn't see the arrow) So ill remedy that while I'm in there. Any one got tips for taking old gasket off, hopefully it will be easier this time around. I use razor blade.

Please read over the section on governors, pages 5.14-5.15 in the manual I posted. It explains the operation of the governor and how to set it. After you have gone through that section post back any specific questions and I will try to talk you through them.

ok found a good running used cv13s motor which will bold right on, but there are a few differences, for instance the fuel bowl has the solenoid on the bottom not sure if I care for that (think they leak some times) Also I noticed that the new engine block has the mount for the cam actuated fuel pump, but there is no hole in in the block so cant use the old fuel pump. I was wondering if I could hook up a electrical fuel pump some how? Other than that the engine will buy me time to work on the original motor.
Any direction here would be great!

that's where I was reading that, on the tractorpullingtips.com page

ok well, got the new motor bolted up, and figured out the fuel bowl solenoid, but ran into a couple of complications. Maybe some one can offer some help.
I got an electrical low flow fuel pump wired up and pumping fuel, (2-4psi) I think, and it seems to flood the motor, so I have to use an shut off valve to slow the flow to not flood it. And my neighbor said that with an electrical fuel pump I need a return line for the excess fuel to go back to the tank, I haven't read anything on this yet. I may be this way in cars but is it necessary with a lawn mower? So as it is right now I can run it like it is but its a bit finicky in my opinion.
Also I switched the starters because I new how to hook up the original one, I only had the ground (bolting the the motor) and a bolt which I hooked up the key actuated power. I was using this but didn't notice that the new engine housing interfered with the top of the starter when engaged, and messed the new one up (got to mess with it to fix it) So now ive got the new starter one (one that came with the motor) and its not the same connections, the new one the electrical motor, and a solenoid on the side, much like a car. I can get the electrical motor to go when I turn the key on, and the solenoid to click up and actuated the gear but when I hook both of them at once. the starter has two bolts off the bottom, and one tab, the tab is the solenoid, and one turns over the electrical motor, whats the other?
A pick would be supper helpful, my grass is getting away from me!
Thanks,
Keep ya posted.

That is what is called a solenoid shift starter. the big lead on the solenoid next to the starter motor hooks to the starter motor. the other big lead is the positive battery cable, and the little tab comes from the key switch through the safety switches to the starter, Just treat the wiring on the solenoid, like as if it was a separate solenoid, except there is no heavy wire between the solenoid like on most riders, the solenoid is wired directly to the starter motor.

ILENGINE said:

That is what is called a solenoid shift starter. the big lead on the solenoid next to the starter motor hooks to the starter motor. the other big lead is the positive battery cable, and the little tab comes from the key switch through the safety switches to the starter, Just treat the wiring on the solenoid, like as if it was a separate solenoid, except there is no heavy wire between the solenoid like on most riders, the solenoid is wired directly to the starter motor.

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thanks for the direction here, ill give it a whirle tomorrow morning! ill try to get some photoes up of what ive done too. thanks again.

Hello all, thanks for you help, I got the alternator working thanks to ILENGINE, I appreciate your guidance here, and now im changing the battery. I thought that I had it hooked up this way days ago, but apparently now, because it works as it is intended to. Oh and I got some picks.

Here's my mower, its definitively a labor of love, but it is a mutual dependent relationship!


and here is the electrical fuel pump wired up, its only temporary until I know every thing is working and Ill button it up better.


and here is how I ended up wiring up the starter and solenoid.



Now that it is working order hopefully, Ill have to further figure out the fuel problem, as the pump seems to be giving to much fuel, and I use the inline shut off valve to slow the flow untill its right, but I think its going to be more complicated than that, because I think the flow needs to proportional to the engine RPM. Also Im going to try and do some pollishing and try rain-xing my grass shoot, because the grass is always wet and it might help. Also I have a massively cracked hood that hopefully I want to do a major repair on, right now I just lift it off the mower, it just sets on top. Its fun to work on though between work and school.
Thanks again guys Ill try to keep this posted on updates.

Re: starter help.

ok well dangit! Got the starter hooked up properly, and it turns over the engine, but it seemed labored yesterday. So i was thinking that the battery was low, so I charged it all last night and its still doing the same thing, and I noticed that when I try and turn over the motor longer (couple of seconds) the ground terminal on the battery starts to smoke (of course I stopped) checked all my connections, wire brushed them till shinny, and still the same thing.
A couple of things come to mind, the starter is dying, or bad battery.
Yesterday, I also tried jumping it with my truck, still seemed the starter was just turning it over slowly. So I thought that something was up with the engine, pulled the plug thought it might have filled up with gas or something, nothing seemed off, not fluid, and then engine turns with my hand, not easy, but I can feel the compression resistance.
So can I plug my truck battery up directly as if it was the mower battery in an attempt to rule out the battery? But I have a feeling that the battery is not my problem, its something that I don't know between the battery and starter and ground terminal. I'm guessing something is drawing to much energy? But how do I narrow that down?

Thanks
Collins

ok, well as it would turn out, I discovered the problem, and it was self inflicted, when I was testing the starter I was using one if its long housing bolts to ground off of, and I forgot to tighten it down, so I think it rattled even looser until the housing became dislodged and it was binding, which made it not happy. So there ya go, love making problems for my self!
I did discover that the fuel bowl solenoid is leaky and it drips directly on the exhaust sooo going to try and fix that before i burn the tractor up and possibly anything else in its vicinity!

wantabe23 said:

ok, well as it would turn out, I discovered the problem, and it was self inflicted, when I was testing the starter I was using one if its long housing bolts to ground off of, and I forgot to tighten it down, so I think it rattled even looser until the housing became dislodged and it was binding, which made it not happy. So there ya go, love making problems for my self!
I did discover that the fuel bowl solenoid is leaky and it drips directly on the exhaust sooo going to try and fix that before i burn the tractor up and possibly anything else in its vicinity!

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Seems that this solenoid is designed to prevent "after fires"... not sure what that is but I think my fix will be to replace it with the older bolt from my other mower, I guess I find out if the threads and diameters are the same!

:smile: Not a reply to your post, but a ? for Rivets, I know on B&S carburetored engines, when going from gravity fed to fuel pump fed you have to change carb seats, is that required on Kohler carbs? Might be the reason he is getting to much fuel.

:smile: 30 ft. lbs. cyl head torque is correct, you stated 4 bolts, there are 5 bolts that hold the head down. Also, check head flatness, Max out of head flatness .003. Why was a new sleeve installed?

Low flow electric fuel pumps could work with the Kohler carbs if they are not mounted to close the the carb. 4lbs. is a bit high for most small engine carbs, as the floats can be too small to shut off that amount of pressure. I really don't like to use them unless I am at least four feet away. I also make sure that I install a new needle and seat to make sure I get a good seal. Simple test is to apply current to the pump and watch the carb air horn with out the engine running. If you see fuel entering the air horn, the seat is not sealing due to too much pressure. PS: The only time I have used electric fuel pumps with a small engine application is, generators and discharge pumps.

Buckshot 1 said:

:smile: Not a reply to your post, but a ? for Rivets, I know on B&S carburetored engines, when going from gravity fed to fuel pump fed you have to change carb seats, is that required on Kohler carbs? Might be the reason he is getting to much fuel.

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Well the original was a pump fed, it was just actuated by the cam, so the pump bolted on the side of the engine, but the newer (used) engine it didn't have that hole on the engine, So electric was next logical option. I did have to mess with the fuel, and ended up buying a low pressure fuel regulator which allows me to run the mower normally, however I have to be careful to shut everything off at once. If I shut the motor off, or it dies for some reason the pump continues to run filling the carburetor to the top! So I have to be careful, because that can cause some other major problems.

Buckshot 1 said:

:smile: 30 ft. lbs. cyl head torque is correct, you stated 4 bolts, there are 5 bolts that hold the head down. Also, check head flatness, Max out of head flatness .003. Why was a new sleeve installed?

Click to expand...

I used the mower for one year after I bought it used from a small engine guy, and it seemed to have a loud knocking tapping sound, and I wanted to have the mower for a while. Being a mechanics son, and never having the chance to rebuild an engine thought this would be a fun project. (I have two neighbors that are serious wrench turners too) Got a new oil pan. And also the top of the engine was worn too, where the crank goes through the block (underneath the fly wheel) and that I had no way to fix without getting an new engine, but I wanted to fix it, not get a new one when the other parts were just fine. So I think the newer blocks were sent out with replaceable sleeves and mine being older did not. It was, just solid aluminum,which seemed crazy to me (turns out its normal) because I did work on down hill MTB and they had sleeves/ bushings/ bearings all over the place, and unless it was a hub didn't rotate nearly that fast. So, I got the sleeve and then got the oil pan milled out and sleeve installed for $50 buy this old retired Boeing guy locally. And fitted every thing back together and the only problem was that I didn't catch that little triangle on the piston head for orientation (put it upside down) and the head gasket keeps blowing out. So Ill take everything apart, clean/ reinspect, and then re torque everything and give it a whirl. I know more now and ill check and see if anything is warped and see how it goes.

Rivets said:

Low flow electric fuel pumps could work with the Kohler carbs if they are not mounted to close the the carb. 4lbs. is a bit high for most small engine carbs, as the floats can be too small to shut off that amount of pressure. I really don't like to use them unless I am at least four feet away. I also make sure that I install a new needle and seat to make sure I get a good seal. Simple test is to apply current to the pump and watch the carb air horn with out the engine running. If you see fuel entering the air horn, the seat is not sealing due to too much pressure. PS: The only time I have used electric fuel pumps with a small engine application is, generators and discharge pumps.

Click to expand...

I am definitely having this problem, and defiantly don't like being so close to the exhaust! The pump is mounted about 3.5' away from the carb, and the regulator works on a 1.5 adjustment (i assume that corresponds with psi). Might look into that needle and seat, but it sounds like you were making sure everything was working properly, im not convinced that it will do anything, I think it might do the same thing. My neighbor (a vehicular mechanic) says that I should put on a return line to the tank for excess volume, but this sound a bit crazy given its a small carb. and not having test facilities and such. not sure of that, and seems excessive for a lawn mower?
The used motor was 200, and the regulator was 30, and then my time, I figure its not that bad, plus my grass is mowed and looking good, much eraser to walk in! So im happy, there just seems to be some kinks to work out for sure.