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JD 14SE won't start
#1
K
KCF
K
KCF
I have a John Deere 14SE that won't start.
I replaced the spark plug and coil and have good spark.
I cleaned the carb and all jets are clear. I get gas to the bowl (it pours out if I loosen the drain screw).
I am currently cranking the flywheel manually with a drill at high RPM but it will still will not turn over.
Any help would be appreciated.
I replaced the spark plug and coil and have good spark.
I cleaned the carb and all jets are clear. I get gas to the bowl (it pours out if I loosen the drain screw).
I am currently cranking the flywheel manually with a drill at high RPM but it will still will not turn over.
Any help would be appreciated.
#2
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
Post all engine numbers as well as engine manufacturer, example B&S model xxxxxx, type xxxx, trim xx.
Try rotating, with both hands on top of engine screen, clockwise just past hard spot & try cranking with key, if it starts you need to adjust valves per manual specs. What this means is valves are too loose & by adjusting them compression release on camshaft will work like it's designed to.
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/kawas...se-no-start-fuel-ignition-system-seem-ok.html
read through these posts
"K&T Parts House Lawn Mower Parts and Chain Saw & Trimmer Parts" your manual is 3 down, download bottom left of screen, troubleshooting hard starting, save website, let us know what you find please.
Try rotating, with both hands on top of engine screen, clockwise just past hard spot & try cranking with key, if it starts you need to adjust valves per manual specs. What this means is valves are too loose & by adjusting them compression release on camshaft will work like it's designed to.
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/kawas...se-no-start-fuel-ignition-system-seem-ok.html
read through these posts
"K&T Parts House Lawn Mower Parts and Chain Saw & Trimmer Parts" your manual is 3 down, download bottom left of screen, troubleshooting hard starting, save website, let us know what you find please.
#3
K
KCF
K
KCF
Mark - Thanks for the response.
The engine ID on this model apparently came only in sticker form so it has long since eroded away. The only ID I have is that it is a John Deere 14SE, the deck has a sticker reading 'JD903', and I know it is a Kawasaki 4 cycle engine. I cannot find any physical markings on the engine what so ever.
I attempted you procedure above and it still did not turn over. I don't have a tool to measure compression but I did pull the spark plug and crank the flywheel with the drill while holding my thumb over the spark plug hole. The compression was great enough that I could not hold back the pressure with all the strength of my thumb.
Also, if it helps, I'll describe how it failed. I was half way through mowing my lawn (~1/4 acre) and it was running fine as usual. Then I stopped it to empty the bag and it simply would not restart after that.
The engine ID on this model apparently came only in sticker form so it has long since eroded away. The only ID I have is that it is a John Deere 14SE, the deck has a sticker reading 'JD903', and I know it is a Kawasaki 4 cycle engine. I cannot find any physical markings on the engine what so ever.
I attempted you procedure above and it still did not turn over. I don't have a tool to measure compression but I did pull the spark plug and crank the flywheel with the drill while holding my thumb over the spark plug hole. The compression was great enough that I could not hold back the pressure with all the strength of my thumb.
Also, if it helps, I'll describe how it failed. I was half way through mowing my lawn (~1/4 acre) and it was running fine as usual. Then I stopped it to empty the bag and it simply would not restart after that.
#4
Fish
Leave the small {kill} wire disconnected from the coil for now, you may just have it flooded bad, and a safety switch caused it not to restart after you dumped the grass.
Or you may have hit something, which killed the engine and you decided to dump the grass, and you sheared a flywheel key.
But at any rate, when you hear a story that says, it was running great until....... Then you need to relive that moment, as the correct diagnosis is likely hidden somewhere in that story.....
For example. I dropped by a friends shop several years ago, and my friend was on the phone, and he said, as I walked in the door... "Well hold on, big John is here,
and he is good on electrical, let me call you back, I'll have him look at it.
He had a JD rider, that would not crank, he had been messing with it a bit, replaced the solenoid, and then ordered a keyswitch from Deere, it had a circuit board
attached to it. He had just plugged it in, and tried it right before I came by, and was calling the customer to throw up a surrender flag.....
When he hung up, I asked him, what is the story.
He said that they were mowing on their farm, and his son got too close to one of their ponds, and the tractor got stuck nose in, and they pulled the mower out with a truck and chain, and then it wouldn't start.....I laughed, and said, "Let me look at it".
I reached up on the top of the trans, and re-attached the neutral safety switch, and it started immediately. So total full disclosure is helpful....
Fish
Mark - Thanks for the response.
The engine ID on this model apparently came only in sticker form so it has long since eroded away. The only ID I have is that it is a John Deere 14SE, the deck has a sticker reading 'JD903', and I know it is a Kawasaki 4 cycle engine. I cannot find any physical markings on the engine what so ever.
I attempted you procedure above and it still did not turn over. I don't have a tool to measure compression but I did pull the spark plug and crank the flywheel with the drill while holding my thumb over the spark plug hole. The compression was great enough that I could not hold back the pressure with all the strength of my thumb.
Also, if it helps, I'll describe how it failed. I was half way through mowing my lawn (~1/4 acre) and it was running fine as usual. Then I stopped it to empty the bag and it simply would not restart after that.
Leave the small {kill} wire disconnected from the coil for now, you may just have it flooded bad, and a safety switch caused it not to restart after you dumped the grass.
Or you may have hit something, which killed the engine and you decided to dump the grass, and you sheared a flywheel key.
But at any rate, when you hear a story that says, it was running great until....... Then you need to relive that moment, as the correct diagnosis is likely hidden somewhere in that story.....
For example. I dropped by a friends shop several years ago, and my friend was on the phone, and he said, as I walked in the door... "Well hold on, big John is here,
and he is good on electrical, let me call you back, I'll have him look at it.
He had a JD rider, that would not crank, he had been messing with it a bit, replaced the solenoid, and then ordered a keyswitch from Deere, it had a circuit board
attached to it. He had just plugged it in, and tried it right before I came by, and was calling the customer to throw up a surrender flag.....
When he hung up, I asked him, what is the story.
He said that they were mowing on their farm, and his son got too close to one of their ponds, and the tractor got stuck nose in, and they pulled the mower out with a truck and chain, and then it wouldn't start.....I laughed, and said, "Let me look at it".
I reached up on the top of the trans, and re-attached the neutral safety switch, and it started immediately. So total full disclosure is helpful....
#5
K
KCF
K
KCF
Fish - thanks for the input.
The failure actually happened last weekend so it should not still be flooded. And I have tried with and without the kill wire connected to the coil. Note that this is an electric start model so the kill wire is not a simple ground circuit but rather it connects to an ignitor (postage stamp sized box) and then to ground. But I have also replaced this ignitor as well as the coil itself. But either way, I get a spark now.
With respect to the moment of failure...
I did not hit anything. When I killed the throttle it stalled as usual without any noticeable abnormal recoil. And this model does not appear to have a flywheel key but rather it has keyed features on the crankshaft to sync the timing. With this model I don't see how the timing could possibly be off.
The only thing out of the ordinary...
I have two identical gas cans in my shed and I think I topped off the tank (from about 2/3 full) with the older of the two cans (about 3 months). But after realizing this, I drained/cleaned the mower's tank, replaced the fuel filter, and cleaned/rebuilt the carb (with new gaskets).
And I had replaced the air filter about 2 months ago and it still looks clean. I've tried starting it with and without it installed.
I have air, gas, spark, compression, and timing. How could this engine not be starting?!!
The failure actually happened last weekend so it should not still be flooded. And I have tried with and without the kill wire connected to the coil. Note that this is an electric start model so the kill wire is not a simple ground circuit but rather it connects to an ignitor (postage stamp sized box) and then to ground. But I have also replaced this ignitor as well as the coil itself. But either way, I get a spark now.
With respect to the moment of failure...
I did not hit anything. When I killed the throttle it stalled as usual without any noticeable abnormal recoil. And this model does not appear to have a flywheel key but rather it has keyed features on the crankshaft to sync the timing. With this model I don't see how the timing could possibly be off.
The only thing out of the ordinary...
I have two identical gas cans in my shed and I think I topped off the tank (from about 2/3 full) with the older of the two cans (about 3 months). But after realizing this, I drained/cleaned the mower's tank, replaced the fuel filter, and cleaned/rebuilt the carb (with new gaskets).
And I had replaced the air filter about 2 months ago and it still looks clean. I've tried starting it with and without it installed.
I have air, gas, spark, compression, and timing. How could this engine not be starting?!!
#6
K
KCF
Mark - thanks for directing me to the shop manual. Super helpful.
I followed the troubleshooting map on pg8: Spark? YES -> Compression? YES -> Wet plug? YES -> Possible causes:
1. Excessive use of choke.
- When the air cleaner is off, I can see the choke shutter. It is opening and closing properly relative to the hand-lever position.
2. Clogged air cleaner.
- As previously mentioned, the air cleaner is relatively new and still looks clean. I have also tried to start the engine with the air cleaner not installed (in a clean environment of course).
3. Too high fuel level in float bowl.
- I'm not sure how to diagnose this. The manual just suggests to "Adjust". When I had the carb disassembled I checked that the float pivoted freely and the plunger appeared to operate as expected relative to the motion of the float. The o-ring on the plunger looked good too. Because the float and plunger both pivot on the same fixed pin, I do not see how this can be "adjusted". And I could see this assembly slowly falling out of adjustment but my mower was working fine one minute and then wouldn't start the next minute.
K
KCF
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/kawas...se-no-start-fuel-ignition-system-seem-ok.html
read through these posts
"K&T Parts House Lawn Mower Parts and Chain Saw & Trimmer Parts" your manual is 3 down, download bottom left of screen, troubleshooting hard starting, save website, let us know what you find please.
Mark - thanks for directing me to the shop manual. Super helpful.
I followed the troubleshooting map on pg8: Spark? YES -> Compression? YES -> Wet plug? YES -> Possible causes:
1. Excessive use of choke.
- When the air cleaner is off, I can see the choke shutter. It is opening and closing properly relative to the hand-lever position.
2. Clogged air cleaner.
- As previously mentioned, the air cleaner is relatively new and still looks clean. I have also tried to start the engine with the air cleaner not installed (in a clean environment of course).
3. Too high fuel level in float bowl.
- I'm not sure how to diagnose this. The manual just suggests to "Adjust". When I had the carb disassembled I checked that the float pivoted freely and the plunger appeared to operate as expected relative to the motion of the float. The o-ring on the plunger looked good too. Because the float and plunger both pivot on the same fixed pin, I do not see how this can be "adjusted". And I could see this assembly slowly falling out of adjustment but my mower was working fine one minute and then wouldn't start the next minute.