Export thread

New to forum. I bought a HRX217HYA about 8 years ago. Brought it in last year for tune up. My dealer put a new carb on. Brought it home and could not start it - it had been running rough before but it would start.

So I bring it back and dealer calls to tell me compression is low and it likely needs rings. No smoke by the way. I got upset asking why when I bring in a rough running mower, have carb replaced, pay for full tune up - I get non-working mower back and on top of it need major engine work. Only used mower for 4 years as I had service other years.

Warantee is out. Asked them to check with Honda as I can't believe 4 years of use results in worn rings. I always check oil level.

Anyway Honda would not do anything. Dealer got it running OK. But certainly not like it should.

So I have a $700 mower that runs like the one Little Johnny sold the local preacher.

What do you guys suggest?

That's seems dumb that the dealer didn't do a compression check before replacing the carb. You said the oil was always changed on a regular basis... Unless you ran the oil low, some of the other things that can cause an early engine death would be leaky air filter allowing dirt to get into carb or overheating the engine...

Find another Honda dealer. If the compression problem, even if it has one, were because of bad rings, the oil consumption and use would be evident.

Just for backround, was it running good when you put it up last fall, but this spring ran like crap? Or what? You hit a stump? Any/all backround info is
what we need if we are to help in any way.

I took it out last spring 2013 and it was running rough. I hadn't run gas dry so figured it was the carb. Never hit any stumps etc. I'll take a look and make sure no obvious shaft bend when looking from bottom of crank.

Now what I did notice is I hit something on the carb side of engine last year after I went through the dealer incident. It damaged the cover plate so only one clip holds the air cleaner cover on. It has fallen off a few times when I catch it on bush etc. But the bad running was happening before that damage. I just ordered replacement parts to remedy this issue.

I was just reading about the finger check for compression. Will give that a try. It runs but idle goes up an down unless blade is engaged. Maybe I can take video and post.

BTW in perusing some other threads I noticed someone said don't use Quaker State oil in lawn mowers - too thin. The oil I used prior to this all happening was some Quaker State synthetic 10-30w. I think it was a cheaper QS oil from Walmart. I hope that wan't responsible.

Fish said:

Find another Honda dealer. If the compression problem, even if it has one, were because of bad rings, the oil consumption and use would be evident.

Just for backround, was it running good when you put it up last fall, but this spring ran like crap? Or what? You hit a stump? Any/all backround info is
what we need if we are to help in any way.

Click to expand...

It was running bad before dealer changed out carb. Better after second trip. Same all last year and this year. I used Seafoam in gas over winter.

shacky said:

BTW in perusing some other threads I noticed someone said don't use Quaker State oil in lawn mowers - too thin. The oil I used prior to this all happening was some Quaker State synthetic 10-30w. I think it was a cheaper QS oil from Walmart. I hope that wan't responsible.

Click to expand...

No way no how that Quaker state oil killed your engine. Even Supertech (Walmart's in house oil brand) wouldn't kill a Honda GCV engine. I bet you read that on bitog lol. Those guys are oil zealots. Unless you ran straight non detergent 30w oil in the middle of winter would incorrect oil choice damaged your engine so quickly. I've run plenty of honda GC motors in the past and they're not that picky with oil as long as you pick a detergent oil within the right viscosity range Dino or synth that meets SJ

One other thing. What do you mean by 'running bad'? Did the engine seem it was down on power? Was your motor surging constantly after the carb service? The shop could've possibly not mounted the new carb well and introduced an airleak which would've potentially caused a lean condition which can quickly wear out an engine from overheating.

In either case I agree with the posters above and try a 2nd opinion with another certified Honda shop. Also, with the cost of labor these days, it might be more cost effective to either to source a new engine or just junk the mower and get a new one and this time shun the devil's gasoline, or any gasoline that has ethanol in it.

Ruh-roh. I think this is the synthetic I had used. Seems very thin.

That oil is perfectly fine. It's API/ILSAC certified oil with the perfect viscosity. I've seen dollar store oil that doesn't meet those specs. If you're engine is truly worn, your choice of oil was NOT the cause.

Thanks! I would have hated to think it was my fault.

By running bad I mean RPM unsteady. If I try to idle low it will die. And of course that doesn't make it sound very good.

Has plenty of power full throttle with blade engaged. Doesn't seem to falter at all. I'll take video tomorrow and post.

For $185 ring job I think I would go with this:

Honda Vertical Engine - GCV160-N5MF - Honda Engines - Small Engines

Just realized my model is a HRX217HXA not HYA

shacky said:

Just realized my model is a HRX217HXA not HYA

Click to expand...

I was thinking something was up AFAIK, the HYA revision is just came out recently. Biggest difference is the autochoke, the GCV190 is almost the same between the two mowers.

Picked up compression gauge. Only get ~ 53 reading. But doesn't the pull start open valve for easier pull starting? If that's real reading seems quite low but wondering about the pull start bleed off.

Found this. I thought the pull start was skewing reading.

Honda Lawnmower Compression Test GXV120 GXV140 GXV160 - YouTube

Popped off valve cover. Not same as video engine. Other than learning what to do now it looks like Honda dealer didn't bother with gasket just gooped sealant.

The GCV160/190 normally only have sealant on the valve cover...

Thanks I feel better hearing that. Compression didn't change after 20 min so I'm thinking bad rings is horse doody. So do I need to go beyond this check?

Honestly, I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. Your symptoms sound mostly carb i.e. Air/fuel mixture related. If you have good power when running full throttle, then the shop that put your new carb in either put in a suspect carb or reused gaskets and introduced an air leak. I'd just by a new carb which is really cheap and replace every single gasket between the carb and the block. The problem is that you've also taken off the cam cover off which is notorious for warping with removal. For safeties sake I would replace with a new one and get some new Hondabond to seal it to rule out another potential air leak.

Yeah - I agree with you. I wanted to rest my mind about the low compression report from dealer - which BTW is the dealer I bought it from. Though the owners when I bought it I believe have turned it over to younger family. I haven't seen the parents last few times I was there.

So it's on to a new dealer next time.

Can someone help ,e identify carb number and gaskets to order?

Never mind I went to Repair Clinic.com and see everything I need. I had already ordered new air filter housing and cover.

Item #: 1617300
Description: Carburetor Gasket
Price: $1.55
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $1.55

Item #: 1617297
Description: Carburetor Gasket
Price: $1.60
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $1.60

Item #: 1617301
Description: Insulator Gasket
Price: $1.50
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $1.50

Item #: 1617341
Description: Air Cleaner Gasket
Price: $2.10
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $2.10

Item #: 1796110
Description: Blade
Price: $14.65
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $14.65

Item #: 1796111
Description: Blade
Price: $14.65
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $14.65

Item #: 1796352
Description: Governor Spring
Price: $1.30
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $1.30

Need help replacing this part? Part Replacement video for Part #1796352.

Item #: 1617393
Description: Insulator Gasket
Price: $5.80
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $5.80

Item #: 2113934
Description: Carburetor
Price: $16.95
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $16.95

Item #: 1617361
Description: Valve Cover
Price: $4.55
Quantity: 1
Availability: In Stock
Item Total: $4.55

Shouldn't I check valve clearance while cover is off? I'll have to pick up metric feeler gauge to do so.

You might as well, I wouldn't trust that dealer with changing rings after they've botched a much simpler carb swap....

I looked up that serial number and this specific mower was part of a Product Safety Recall back in 2007. According to Honda records, the needed repairs have NOT been completed on this mower.

The issue is the Roto-Stop return spring might break, which would allow the blades to keep spinning even when the blade control lever is released. The fix is to install an updated spring, and this is done at no charge, regardless of the age or warranty status of the mower.

Please DO NOT USE this mower until a servicing Honda Dealer has updated it with the new-style Roto-Stop spring. Here's a copy of the letter sent to registered owners back in 2007:



When you contact your dealer, tell them to reference Honda Mower Service Bulletin #81, Product Safety Recall, "Broken Roto-Stop Return Spring." Again, the dealer will make the repair to replace this spring at no charge to you (you do need to deliver and pick-up the mower from the dealer).

Find a Honda Dealer here; be sure to click on SERVICE and LAWN MOWERS and then enter your ZIP code:

Find A Honda Dealer

Thanks Robert!

magbarn said:

Honestly, I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. Your symptoms sound mostly carb i.e. Air/fuel mixture related. If you have good power when running full throttle, then the shop that put your new carb in either put in a suspect carb or reused gaskets and introduced an air leak. I'd just by a new carb which is really cheap and replace every single gasket between the carb and the block. The problem is that you've also taken off the cam cover off which is notorious for warping with removal. For safeties sake I would replace with a new one and get some new Hondabond to seal it to rule out another potential air leak.

Click to expand...

How would valve cover introduce another vacuum leak?

shacky said:

How would valve cover introduce another vacuum leak?

Click to expand...

If you somehow warped it upon removal which happens more often than not. I guess if you apply enough goop it should form a good seal anyway. You can also buy the much better quality and thicker cam cover for the GSV190 motor. Someone here did it but I believe they had to use shorter bolts.

Just wondering how loose valve cover would introduce vacuum leak to intake. I can see how it would leak oil but unless there is PCV connection to intake I couldn't see the vacuum leak on intake.

Well I can now positively say the dealer was full of doo doo telling me compression was low. That is unless 118 is low. I removed exhaust rocker and this is what I got:

I picked up feeler gauge. Exhaust was fine. But I couldn't get 0.15 mm (actually 0.152) in. I adjusted intake. Boy it's tricky. Seems when I tighten lock nut it increases gap. Had to do it a few times before it felt right. I'll double check again before installing new cover which should be here tomorrow with new carb and gaskets.

Video:

Success!!! Just finished buttoning up the valve cover, installing new carb, air cleaner kit, and blades.

Started first pull and idled well without long warm up. Now it sounds and runs like a real Honda. I am never going to that dealer again!

Congrats! So it was all a carb problem after all. Like I said I'd be very wary of dropping off OPE to be serviced at a dealer that can't handle a simple carb swap/cleaning. Thanks to ethanol, that's the bread and butter for the majority of small engine repairs these days! Honda should add another tag in addition to their 'No Oil' tag on the gas cap. It should read 'if you're a homeowner (who will usually take months to burn through 2 gallons of gas) always use fuel stabilizer'.