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hr215 SXA masters transmission
#1
M
mahaffeymj
M
mahaffeymj
Bought this used and figured would need to replace tranny. Have uploaded pictures. not sure what happened , but appears wheel adjuster arm became defective and somehow scored the axle whereby it eventually broke (not sure why guy did not notice something amiss). after looking it over and seeing the limited confines, not sure i am up to the job of replacing tranny unless i can eventually buy a cheap used one on ebay, etc. as new look like around $400. could not afford to mess that up and eat the $400. may part it out and try sell on ebay myself. can someone with experience on these mowers, look over pictures and see what they think and what type of job to replace is involved? also any idea on best place buying used tranny for this model? its a 3 speed.
thanks.
i love these mowers and have a couple of the old hr214 models.
thanks.
i love these mowers and have a couple of the old hr214 models.
Attachments
#2
exotion
exotion
For 400 you could get a decent new mower with working transmission.
#3
Giblet
Giblet
I you look at this webpage Plano Power Equipment Online Store - Honda HR215 Transmission Assembly. is it item #2 that broke?
#4
M
mahaffeymj
no, unfortunately is the shaft or axle #20
M
mahaffeymj
I you look at this webpage Plano Power Equipment Online Store - Honda HR215 Transmission Assembly. is it item #2 that broke?
no, unfortunately is the shaft or axle #20
#5
Giblet
Giblet
Ya, I feel for you. Even though the drive shaft is $140 bucks, but what the heck, at this point you have nothing to lose and this would make for a wonderful rainy day project.
#6
wfsway
wfsway
The transmission drive shaft can be re-welded and finished diameter, although the welder needs to be accomplished craftsman. Likely you should remove the axle from the housing, as it is so close to the seal. This will also be a good time to replace those main seals, they are not expensive. Alternatively the SX transmissions come available on Ebay occasionally for approximately 125.00 to 150.00 used complete. The replacement new final drive shaft #23251-VA3-J52 is about the same price at Parts Pit Stop web site. Presently I have extra SX unit that has been reworked seals, fluid etc.
#7
G
golfergordy
G
golfergordy
In late 2016 I bought 2-HR215 SX's on CL near the end of the mowing season. The $40 HR215 had a motivated seller and it looked like hell, but it ran very well and had a small hole in the deck, which I repaired. I also cleaned it up and it now looks fine, and has become my weekly mower. The $20 HR215 I bought starts, but it doesn't start easily, and after I made some adjustments, it runs well once it gets going. I'll be looking into fixing the starting problem in 2018. The point of my comments here is that both of these mowers have 3-speed transmissions that work very well. Many people will sell their lawnmower for very little $ once it gets into a state of disrepair, especially once it gets to be 20+ yrs-old. Keep your eyes on CL for a cheap, dilapidated HR215 with 3-speed trans and act quickly to buy it, just to get the transmission, because the flippers aggressively go after the CL Honda HR series mowers.
#8
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
The filler cap/dipstick on the transmission does seem to tend to loosen over time. It's become one of my items to check along with checking the engine oil.
My HR215 Masters 5.0 was hard to start too,,,I think this was due to the valve clearances being way off.
Regards
Jeff
My HR215 Masters 5.0 was hard to start too,,,I think this was due to the valve clearances being way off.
Regards
Jeff
#9
S
scbovenzi@gmail.com
S
scbovenzi@gmail.com
Same thing happened to mine - I replaced the whole drive shaft. You have to open the transmission to replace the shaft - NOT AN EASY FIX FOR A BEGINNER like me! Getting the damn case back together was a trick. Now I have a different problem with the same mower - it appears that the transmission is slipping because I didn't put enough fluid in the case when I put it back together - and the case is SEALED - no port for replacing or adding fluid. Keep all this in mind! I DEFINITELY would have purchased a new transmission with drive shaft had I know how much trouble this was going to be.
#10
wfsway
wfsway
There is a hex bolt on top of the sx transmission with aluminum crush washer, fluid can be added carefully with a dropper. It may be difficult to access, but should work.
#11
T
tadawson
Yeah, a bit late, but just went through mine. Note that that is *NOT* a fill port, but rather the detent for the shift fork. You have the bolt, a crush washer, a spring, a spacer and then the detent ball. If you can get all that stuff out, they you could likely add fluid, but if not, nothing will flow. It would be far easier to back off the case bolts about 1/4",and separate the case - everything internal will stay in place, and you can drain the oil fluid and then refill through the gap with the correct amount and not have to guess.
While in there, pulling it apart to inspect is not difficult, although I did find a few quirks in reassembly, but once that was figured out, it's pretty simple.
With the case split and all out, first assemble the driven components on the output shaft. First set the shifter, change shaft boss, drive keys and springs and key holder in place on the drive shaft. Then add teh large gear, a washer, the midsize gear, another washer, and the small gear and the special washer (see part diagram) on place, and then insert the shaft and all that stuff into the large side of the case. You will likely need to pull the shaft back a bit to get the shift fork to engage. Get all that aligned, and push it in until it stops.
Take that side of the case, and put it on a bench, vise, or whatever that will allow the shaft to be below the case and pointing up.
Get the other half of the case, and gently push the plug #47 out of it (at the end of the countershaft bearing in the small case end). Put the pinion in the other half of the case, and then the large washer behind the bevel gear, and then slip the bevel gear in place. You might want to put a small dab of grease on the back of the bevel gear to keep the washer from moving around too much. Insert the clutch folk in the small end of the case as well.
Take the washer #40 that goes on the end of the countershaft, and place it in the end of the large case just above the bearing recess. (This washer is too large to clear the driven gear otherwise, and will prevent the countershaft from being inserted otherwise.)
Assemble the three driven gears on the countershaft, and insert it into the large case. Using a finger to hold the gears from dropping off the countershaft when inserting it is helpful.
Add the driven clutsh and washer atop the countershaft. At this point, there should be no remaining parts on the bench, other than the bolts that hold the housing together and the small rubber plug.
Since the bevel gear is retained by the pinion and clutch fork, take the small case and invert it to position it for mating it with the lower case. Look through the hold where the plug was and ensure that the washer is centered on the bevel gear and bearing recess, and start the small half of the case over the axle. Make sure that the clutch fork is hanging down, and when you get close to the driven clutch, gently guide it into the grooves on the clutch. Continue lowering the small case half onto the lower half, and look in to the countershaft bearing hole to ensure that things line up, and if needed, use a small took to get the bevel gear and washer to align with the countershaft, and ensure that the case goes together easily.
Insert a couple of case bolts a small amount - leave 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch clearance. If using a typical bottle of gear lube, clip the tip as long as you can. Pull the case apart (limited by the bolts so that nothing can fall lose or out of a bearing) and squirt the lube through the gap into the lower case. A full fill does not overflow the lower case, so as long as you keep it level, you won't spill. Use the markings on the bottle or whatever works for you to determine quantity.
When full, pull the bottle tip out, and let the case slip together. Run the bolts in and tighten in a pattern gradually to ensure a good seal. Put the small rubber plug in at the end of the countershaft.
Done!
On mine, for what it is worth, other than a small amount of tooth wear on the pinion, the transmission internals looked new after 30 years of use . . . I can't see why these should not hold up, and it looks like Honda still offers all the parts . . .
Were I just wanting to refresh the lube, I'd back the bolt out, split the case to drain the old, and refill. This is an O ring seal, so should be reusable, and if not, it's $3.48 (3/25/2019) to replace, so do as you please . . .
All in all, nothing to be afraid of, but the manual is grossly lacking in detail on reassembly, and it seems that the biggest issue I have read folks having is not getting the case to mate, and my above assembly sequence ensures that that will not happen!
T
tadawson
There is a hex bolt on top of the sx transmission with aluminum crush washer, fluid can be added carefully with a dropper. It may be difficult to access, but should work.
Yeah, a bit late, but just went through mine. Note that that is *NOT* a fill port, but rather the detent for the shift fork. You have the bolt, a crush washer, a spring, a spacer and then the detent ball. If you can get all that stuff out, they you could likely add fluid, but if not, nothing will flow. It would be far easier to back off the case bolts about 1/4",and separate the case - everything internal will stay in place, and you can drain the oil fluid and then refill through the gap with the correct amount and not have to guess.
While in there, pulling it apart to inspect is not difficult, although I did find a few quirks in reassembly, but once that was figured out, it's pretty simple.
With the case split and all out, first assemble the driven components on the output shaft. First set the shifter, change shaft boss, drive keys and springs and key holder in place on the drive shaft. Then add teh large gear, a washer, the midsize gear, another washer, and the small gear and the special washer (see part diagram) on place, and then insert the shaft and all that stuff into the large side of the case. You will likely need to pull the shaft back a bit to get the shift fork to engage. Get all that aligned, and push it in until it stops.
Take that side of the case, and put it on a bench, vise, or whatever that will allow the shaft to be below the case and pointing up.
Get the other half of the case, and gently push the plug #47 out of it (at the end of the countershaft bearing in the small case end). Put the pinion in the other half of the case, and then the large washer behind the bevel gear, and then slip the bevel gear in place. You might want to put a small dab of grease on the back of the bevel gear to keep the washer from moving around too much. Insert the clutch folk in the small end of the case as well.
Take the washer #40 that goes on the end of the countershaft, and place it in the end of the large case just above the bearing recess. (This washer is too large to clear the driven gear otherwise, and will prevent the countershaft from being inserted otherwise.)
Assemble the three driven gears on the countershaft, and insert it into the large case. Using a finger to hold the gears from dropping off the countershaft when inserting it is helpful.
Add the driven clutsh and washer atop the countershaft. At this point, there should be no remaining parts on the bench, other than the bolts that hold the housing together and the small rubber plug.
Since the bevel gear is retained by the pinion and clutch fork, take the small case and invert it to position it for mating it with the lower case. Look through the hold where the plug was and ensure that the washer is centered on the bevel gear and bearing recess, and start the small half of the case over the axle. Make sure that the clutch fork is hanging down, and when you get close to the driven clutch, gently guide it into the grooves on the clutch. Continue lowering the small case half onto the lower half, and look in to the countershaft bearing hole to ensure that things line up, and if needed, use a small took to get the bevel gear and washer to align with the countershaft, and ensure that the case goes together easily.
Insert a couple of case bolts a small amount - leave 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch clearance. If using a typical bottle of gear lube, clip the tip as long as you can. Pull the case apart (limited by the bolts so that nothing can fall lose or out of a bearing) and squirt the lube through the gap into the lower case. A full fill does not overflow the lower case, so as long as you keep it level, you won't spill. Use the markings on the bottle or whatever works for you to determine quantity.
When full, pull the bottle tip out, and let the case slip together. Run the bolts in and tighten in a pattern gradually to ensure a good seal. Put the small rubber plug in at the end of the countershaft.
Done!
On mine, for what it is worth, other than a small amount of tooth wear on the pinion, the transmission internals looked new after 30 years of use . . . I can't see why these should not hold up, and it looks like Honda still offers all the parts . . .
Were I just wanting to refresh the lube, I'd back the bolt out, split the case to drain the old, and refill. This is an O ring seal, so should be reusable, and if not, it's $3.48 (3/25/2019) to replace, so do as you please . . .
All in all, nothing to be afraid of, but the manual is grossly lacking in detail on reassembly, and it seems that the biggest issue I have read folks having is not getting the case to mate, and my above assembly sequence ensures that that will not happen!
#12
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hpe/505ce407f870022d24bdbcc2/transmission
disassemble & replace worn parts
disassemble & replace worn parts
#13
T
tadawson
T
tadawson
Used the actual service manual myself - the parts docs a pretty lean, and don't give part specs to determine wear . . . Noted my assembly tips above, since neither gives any procedure, and it takes several tries otherwise - it's not particularly obvious.
#14
T
thrasher59
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to be the first to respond to a CL ad under "Free Stuff", and it turned out to be a HRM215 SXA. The guy said that it ran fine until the recoil starter broke, but he had another mower and didn't need it. Rather than mess with it, I ordered a Chinese recoil starter for $12.50, which should be here in about a week. That'll give me time to drain and replace the fluids, replace the spark plug,etc.
The guy also gave me a Ryobi gas weed eater and an electric Homelite edger.
T
thrasher59
In late 2016 I bought 2-HR215 SX's on CL near the end of the mowing season. The $40 HR215 had a motivated seller and it looked like hell, but it ran very well and had a small hole in the deck, which I repaired. I also cleaned it up and it now looks fine, and has become my weekly mower. The $20 HR215 I bought starts, but it doesn't start easily, and after I made some adjustments, it runs well once it gets going. I'll be looking into fixing the starting problem in 2018. The point of my comments here is that both of these mowers have 3-speed transmissions that work very well. Many people will sell their lawnmower for very little $ once it gets into a state of disrepair, especially once it gets to be 20+ yrs-old. Keep your eyes on CL for a cheap, dilapidated HR215 with 3-speed trans and act quickly to buy it, just to get the transmission, because the flippers aggressively go after the CL Honda HR series mowers.
Yesterday, I was lucky enough to be the first to respond to a CL ad under "Free Stuff", and it turned out to be a HRM215 SXA. The guy said that it ran fine until the recoil starter broke, but he had another mower and didn't need it. Rather than mess with it, I ordered a Chinese recoil starter for $12.50, which should be here in about a week. That'll give me time to drain and replace the fluids, replace the spark plug,etc.
The guy also gave me a Ryobi gas weed eater and an electric Homelite edger.
#15
T
tranchinh
T
tranchinh
I love these mower also .I have several HR215,HR214 ,HR216 .Most of these mower the drive shaft will worn out at contact with bearing when the bearings get bad .The shaft can be fix by weld around the worn out spot then file out to fix the new bearings .I also replace the bearings with sealed bearings so it wont happen again .
#16
M
mahaffeymj
also has anyone had any luck trying to get the 6mm roller ( #54 on https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/lawn-mower/hr215k1-sxa-vin-mzam-6200001/sxa-sma-transmission) pressed on to this shaft? any hints? it's a bear.
M
mahaffeymj
do you need to take the welded shaft to a machine shop to have it lathed where it was welded? how do you get the shaft within tolerance for the bearings?I love these mower also .I have several HR215,HR214 ,HR216 .Most of these mower the drive shaft will worn out at contact with bearing when the bearings get bad .The shaft can be fix by weld around the worn out spot then file out to fix the new bearings .I also replace the bearings with sealed bearings so it wont happen again .
also has anyone had any luck trying to get the 6mm roller ( #54 on https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/lawn-mower/hr215k1-sxa-vin-mzam-6200001/sxa-sma-transmission) pressed on to this shaft? any hints? it's a bear.
#17
wfsway
Considering shop rates 50-60 per hour you may be better to buy new axle from supplier (boats.net), get some new axle seals, fluid and roll pins #54. Hope that does not blow the budget, otherwise hold out for craigslist post of complete unit.
wfsway
The #54 pin will need to be soaked in penetrating oil, you could also cut one side flush providing less to drive through. Removal is done securely in vise with properly sized punch and hammer. Additionally heat could be applied to help expansion movement. The welding of the axle pieces would have to be done by skilled craftsman and they could finish the exterior welding to approximate proper diameter.do you need to take the welded shaft to a machine shop to have it lathed where it was welded? how do you get the shaft within tolerance for the bearings?
also has anyone had any luck trying to get the 6mm roller ( #54 on https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/lawn-mower/hr215k1-sxa-vin-mzam-6200001/sxa-sma-transmission) pressed on to this shaft? any hints? it's a bear.
Considering shop rates 50-60 per hour you may be better to buy new axle from supplier (boats.net), get some new axle seals, fluid and roll pins #54. Hope that does not blow the budget, otherwise hold out for craigslist post of complete unit.
#18
M
mahaffeymj
M
mahaffeymj
Thanks for help/info wfsway. was able to get pin out of bad shaft with angle grinder and have bought new parts. any suggestions/thoughts on getting a new pin into a new shaft? think a cheap, manual arbor press would be helpful or needed? any suggestions on such if so? it is very tight. thanks again
#19
wfsway
wfsway
The new pin will slip into the axle easily (no press needed), the wheel ratchet then keeps it confined when you install the wheels. It is only when they rust they become difficult ! Also hope you found more housing seals. I also prime & paint the new axle just after the housings to help the eventual rusting. I wish Honda made the part out of stainless steel and would never compromise. Regardless the rebuilt result will last another 25 years.Thanks for help/info wfsway. was able to get pin out of bad shaft with angle grinder and have bought new parts. any suggestions/thoughts on getting a new pin into a new shaft? think a cheap, manual arbor press would be helpful or needed? any suggestions on such if so? it is very tight. thanks again
#20
M
mahaffeymj
M
mahaffeymj
Now I am talking pin #54 (https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/lawn-mower/hr215k1-sxa-vin-mzam-6200001/sxa-sma-transmission ) where power is transfered from engine , not pins at ends that transfers power to wheels. This pin #54 seems much harder to get in and remove than the pins on the end. You were able to insert #54 pin? What did you use? thanks again. you are quite helpful.
#21
wfsway
wfsway
I understand, the pins #54 are the same dimensions, anyway I have used proper diameter brush (cheap Harbor Tool) approximately 5-6mm to just clear shiny metal of the hole. I cannot Imagine it being beyond interference fit ? The Honda shop manual (attached) does not detail any special treatment. I would try putting the pin and shaft in freezer to contract metal, then graphite or oil and carefully tapping into place.