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Honda Transmission - Play in Pulley Shaft
#1
G
GAVolunteer
G
GAVolunteer
Honda HRB2153SDA SN MZBA-6338804
Label on Transmission Spicer 20001-VE2-M100-M2 06-01-98
A friend gave this to me. He found it sitting out for the trash. Mower is in great shape. It appears to have sat unused for a long time. Carb was varnished with old gas, but cleaned up. Engine runs well.
The self-propelled did not work. The problem was the belt was not on the pulleys. In trying to put the belt back on, I noticed the shaft of the large pulley on the transmission had a whole lot of play in it. The pulley wobbles back and forth and I'm wondering if this is why the belt came off. In working on other mowers, I do not remember the pulley shaft having a lot of play in it, but I have not worked on many Hondas.
I took the transmission off the mower and removed the pulley. On the shaft where it goes into the transmission box, the shaft has an e-clip then a washer. On the other side of the shaft inside the transmission box is an angled pinion gear. All of the gears in the transmission appear to be in great shape.
I know that you cannot get parts for the transmission.
Questions:
1. Is the play in the transmission pulley shaft normal?
2. Is there a bushing in the hole of the transmission box that the pulley shaft goes through that could have worn causing the excessive play in the shaft?
3. Any ideas on how to fix?
4. Has anyone seen this situation before?
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Robert
Label on Transmission Spicer 20001-VE2-M100-M2 06-01-98
A friend gave this to me. He found it sitting out for the trash. Mower is in great shape. It appears to have sat unused for a long time. Carb was varnished with old gas, but cleaned up. Engine runs well.
The self-propelled did not work. The problem was the belt was not on the pulleys. In trying to put the belt back on, I noticed the shaft of the large pulley on the transmission had a whole lot of play in it. The pulley wobbles back and forth and I'm wondering if this is why the belt came off. In working on other mowers, I do not remember the pulley shaft having a lot of play in it, but I have not worked on many Hondas.
I took the transmission off the mower and removed the pulley. On the shaft where it goes into the transmission box, the shaft has an e-clip then a washer. On the other side of the shaft inside the transmission box is an angled pinion gear. All of the gears in the transmission appear to be in great shape.
I know that you cannot get parts for the transmission.
Questions:
1. Is the play in the transmission pulley shaft normal?
2. Is there a bushing in the hole of the transmission box that the pulley shaft goes through that could have worn causing the excessive play in the shaft?
3. Any ideas on how to fix?
4. Has anyone seen this situation before?
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Robert
#2
robert@honda
There should be no noticeable play on the input shaft. The parts diagrams I have don't show internal parts, but I'll bet there is indeed some sort of bushing or sleeve for the input shaft. I would not expect it to turn directly against the case itself, but can't say for sure.
To repair, the most direct way is to replace the transmission, part number 20001-VE2-M16, list price $198.43. Google the part number to find dealers online who sell it, or use this link to get one from a local dealer:
Find A Honda Dealer
robert@honda
Honda HRB2153SDA SN MZBA-6338804
Questions:
1. Is the play in the transmission pulley shaft normal?
2. Is there a bushing in the hole of the transmission box that the pulley shaft goes through that could have worn causing the excessive play in the shaft?
3. Any ideas on how to fix?
4. Has anyone seen this situation before?
There should be no noticeable play on the input shaft. The parts diagrams I have don't show internal parts, but I'll bet there is indeed some sort of bushing or sleeve for the input shaft. I would not expect it to turn directly against the case itself, but can't say for sure.
To repair, the most direct way is to replace the transmission, part number 20001-VE2-M16, list price $198.43. Google the part number to find dealers online who sell it, or use this link to get one from a local dealer:
Find A Honda Dealer
#3
G
GAVolunteer
G
GAVolunteer
Thanks for confirming the excessive play is not normal. Before I buy a new transmission, I'd like to see if I can fix this one.
I have the transmission apart but am having difficulty removing the pulley shaft from the top of the tranny box. I removed the e-clip from the shaft below the pulley. Just beneath the e-clip is a washer, but it will not come off. There is a lip on the shaft that is just a little bigger than the hole in the washer. On the inside of the tranny box is the pinion gear, but I don't see a clip or anything that I can remove to take off the pinion gear.
Any ideas on how to remove the pulley shaft from the top of the tranny box? I'd like to see what the bushing looks like and see if I can replace it with something.
Thanks. Robert
I have the transmission apart but am having difficulty removing the pulley shaft from the top of the tranny box. I removed the e-clip from the shaft below the pulley. Just beneath the e-clip is a washer, but it will not come off. There is a lip on the shaft that is just a little bigger than the hole in the washer. On the inside of the tranny box is the pinion gear, but I don't see a clip or anything that I can remove to take off the pinion gear.
Any ideas on how to remove the pulley shaft from the top of the tranny box? I'd like to see what the bushing looks like and see if I can replace it with something.
Thanks. Robert
#4
robert@honda
I'll ask our engineers what they know about it...stand by.
robert@honda
Any ideas on how to remove the pulley shaft from the top of the tranny box? I'd like to see what the bushing looks like and see if I can replace it with something.
Thanks. Robert
I'll ask our engineers what they know about it...stand by.
#5
G
GAVolunteer
I ended up filing the lip on the shaft down that was suggested in another forum. I was able to remove the washer and the pulley shaft with the attached pinion gear.
The bushing is a metal bushing which has been "wallowed out" by the pulley shaft. It looks like the bushing is press fitted into the tranny case. I have a metal bushing which fits the pulley shaft perfectly, but I have to remove the existing bushing first. I've tried to remove the existing bushing, but it does not want to budge. Other than drilling out the bushing which appears to be either 5/8" or 11/16" in diameter, any other methods to remove a pressed fitted bushing?
Thanks. Robert
G
GAVolunteer
I'll ask our engineers what they know about it...stand by.
I ended up filing the lip on the shaft down that was suggested in another forum. I was able to remove the washer and the pulley shaft with the attached pinion gear.
The bushing is a metal bushing which has been "wallowed out" by the pulley shaft. It looks like the bushing is press fitted into the tranny case. I have a metal bushing which fits the pulley shaft perfectly, but I have to remove the existing bushing first. I've tried to remove the existing bushing, but it does not want to budge. Other than drilling out the bushing which appears to be either 5/8" or 11/16" in diameter, any other methods to remove a pressed fitted bushing?
Thanks. Robert
#6
robert@honda
Possible to press it out somehow? Is there enough surface area or access to fit it into a press?
Wish I could tell you more, but that trans. was made by Honda in France, and has since been discontinued. <sigh>
robert@honda
other methods to remove a pressed fitted bushing?
Thanks. Robert
Possible to press it out somehow? Is there enough surface area or access to fit it into a press?
Wish I could tell you more, but that trans. was made by Honda in France, and has since been discontinued. <sigh>
#7
L
likwid67
L
likwid67
Howdy,
I just signed up tonight for help with the same problem. Neighbor has an HRM215 that kept throwing the belt. Investigated... wobbly pulley resulting from a bearing failure. Initially thought it was a bushing, but had just enough of a part number left on the rim to track it down (pics attached). I haven't gotten around to cross referencing our mowers but here is a link to the bearing i purchased INA SCE810PP Needle Roller Bearing, Steel Cage, Open End, Double Sealed, Inch, 1/2" ID, 11/16" OD, 5/8" Width, 15000rpm Maximum Rotational Speed: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Not trying to hijack your thread but here is my mower info to help figure out if we're dealing with the same thing:
Mower
HRM2153SDA
Spicer Trans (3 speed)
It just has patent #s on the outside and casting #5501 and 5500 respectively on the inside of either half of the housing.
Removing the outside sleeve of the bearing isn't all that big of a deal. I just used a dremel to grind a slit part way down the bearing then you can pancake the sides inward and yank it out. A hacksaw blade will fit inside the hollowed out bearing also. I tried to press it out with no luck so resorted to doing it this way.
Now a word of caution... and my current status. I noticed the pinion shaft had a fair amount of wear on it. When I reinstalled the shaft, there is still some play in it from the wear. The pinion shaft is a 1/2", i put calipers on the worn part but cant remember how many thousandths less it was. When I have the shaft positioned such that a portion with no wear is in contact with the bearing all play is eliminated.
I'm hoping your initial statement about not being able to buy transmission internals isn't true as I am now in search of that half inch pinion shaft...
TLDR; take a close look at the shaft the pinion gear is on, because if its worn, replacing the bearing is only half of the solution.
I just signed up tonight for help with the same problem. Neighbor has an HRM215 that kept throwing the belt. Investigated... wobbly pulley resulting from a bearing failure. Initially thought it was a bushing, but had just enough of a part number left on the rim to track it down (pics attached). I haven't gotten around to cross referencing our mowers but here is a link to the bearing i purchased INA SCE810PP Needle Roller Bearing, Steel Cage, Open End, Double Sealed, Inch, 1/2" ID, 11/16" OD, 5/8" Width, 15000rpm Maximum Rotational Speed: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Not trying to hijack your thread but here is my mower info to help figure out if we're dealing with the same thing:
Mower
HRM2153SDA
Spicer Trans (3 speed)
It just has patent #s on the outside and casting #5501 and 5500 respectively on the inside of either half of the housing.
Removing the outside sleeve of the bearing isn't all that big of a deal. I just used a dremel to grind a slit part way down the bearing then you can pancake the sides inward and yank it out. A hacksaw blade will fit inside the hollowed out bearing also. I tried to press it out with no luck so resorted to doing it this way.
Now a word of caution... and my current status. I noticed the pinion shaft had a fair amount of wear on it. When I reinstalled the shaft, there is still some play in it from the wear. The pinion shaft is a 1/2", i put calipers on the worn part but cant remember how many thousandths less it was. When I have the shaft positioned such that a portion with no wear is in contact with the bearing all play is eliminated.
I'm hoping your initial statement about not being able to buy transmission internals isn't true as I am now in search of that half inch pinion shaft...
TLDR; take a close look at the shaft the pinion gear is on, because if its worn, replacing the bearing is only half of the solution.
#8
robert@honda
Internal parts were never available for the trans., sorry. Might be able to find a used one or entire mower (blown engine/cheap price)?
Trans. as a unit is available from Honda...external parts transfer over easily. Part Number is 2001-VE2-M16, list price $198.43 Google the P/N to find discounted online dealers who sell it.
robert@honda
I'm hoping your initial statement about not being able to buy transmission internals isn't true as I am now in search of that half inch pinion shaft...
Internal parts were never available for the trans., sorry. Might be able to find a used one or entire mower (blown engine/cheap price)?
Trans. as a unit is available from Honda...external parts transfer over easily. Part Number is 2001-VE2-M16, list price $198.43 Google the P/N to find discounted online dealers who sell it.
#9
G
GAVolunteer
Yes I am working on the same transmission.
My shaft was worn as well. I ended up grinding down the shaft a little to smooth it out. May have been a mistake.
Thank you for the link on the bearing. I had no idea you could buy those things. I have not taken out the old bearing sleeve. I ended up using a dremel to grind out the top and bottom lip. I have a metal sleeve (no bearings) that fits perfectly inside the existing bearing sleeve. The sleeve is ID=1/2" x OD=5/8" x 11/16" long. I picked it up at Ace Hardware and cut it down to the length I needed. This is the second one I've made. The first was 9/16" long and fit perfectly inside the old bearing. But after assembling, the pulley shaft had the same wobble. So, i'm trying a slightly longer one - 11/16".
If you find a replacement shaft, let me know. With mine ground down, i will never have a tight fit.
Again, thanks for all of the info. I may get the bearing from Amazon. Let me know how your repair goes.
R.
G
GAVolunteer
Spicer Trans (3 speed) It just has patent #s on the outside and casting #5501 and 5500 respectively on the inside of either half of the housing.
Yes I am working on the same transmission.
take a close look at the shaft the pinion gear is on, because if its worn, replacing the bearing is only half of the solution.
My shaft was worn as well. I ended up grinding down the shaft a little to smooth it out. May have been a mistake.
Thank you for the link on the bearing. I had no idea you could buy those things. I have not taken out the old bearing sleeve. I ended up using a dremel to grind out the top and bottom lip. I have a metal sleeve (no bearings) that fits perfectly inside the existing bearing sleeve. The sleeve is ID=1/2" x OD=5/8" x 11/16" long. I picked it up at Ace Hardware and cut it down to the length I needed. This is the second one I've made. The first was 9/16" long and fit perfectly inside the old bearing. But after assembling, the pulley shaft had the same wobble. So, i'm trying a slightly longer one - 11/16".
If you find a replacement shaft, let me know. With mine ground down, i will never have a tight fit.
Again, thanks for all of the info. I may get the bearing from Amazon. Let me know how your repair goes.
R.
#10
G
GAVolunteer
As I mentioned in the above posts, I ground down the pulley shaft to smooth it out. Instead of 1/2", it is now .475". Also, I have not removed the outer ring of the old bearing, which has an ID of 5/8". I started looking at metric needle bearings like the one you purchased. I found a good inch-metric conversion chart. http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm
I have come up with the following:
1. If I leave the old bearing sleeve in, then a bearing 12mm x 16mm x 16mm should fit.
2. If I take out the old bearing sleeve, then a 12mm x 18mm x 16mm should fit.
I have found these on eBay. I also found a great web site for bearings. http://http://www.vxb.com/search-by-bearing-dimensions.html. Just enter in the various dimensions and it will let you know know what bearings are available.
So, thanks for getting me headed in the right direction. Maybe these links will help others who are dealing with similar issues.
Robert
G
GAVolunteer
As I mentioned in the above posts, I ground down the pulley shaft to smooth it out. Instead of 1/2", it is now .475". Also, I have not removed the outer ring of the old bearing, which has an ID of 5/8". I started looking at metric needle bearings like the one you purchased. I found a good inch-metric conversion chart. http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm
I have come up with the following:
1. If I leave the old bearing sleeve in, then a bearing 12mm x 16mm x 16mm should fit.
2. If I take out the old bearing sleeve, then a 12mm x 18mm x 16mm should fit.
I have found these on eBay. I also found a great web site for bearings. http://http://www.vxb.com/search-by-bearing-dimensions.html. Just enter in the various dimensions and it will let you know know what bearings are available.
So, thanks for getting me headed in the right direction. Maybe these links will help others who are dealing with similar issues.
Robert