Honda HR215 K1 HMA Masters Series Log

[BubbaBob]

A while back I posted in the Honda Owner Check In thread but want to keep an ongoing log for others down the road who may find this useful.

I purchased the mower on July 27, 2013.

HR215 K1 HMA
MZAM 6273924 AD
Engine s/n: GJAB 7585742

Items completed:

Clean up.
Oil Change.
New plug.
New air filter.
Mulching kit.
Handlebar support bracket.
Installed inexpensive tach.
Adjusted travel speed.

 

[BubbaBob]

To do:
Get Birthdate.
Clean carb
Adjust RPM
Replace wheel bearings (maybe)

 

[Giblet]

Replace fuel line?

 

[robert@honda]

To do:
Get Birthdate.

That serial number comes up as a unit that was wholesaled by Honda to a dealer in Rochester Hills, Michigan, on March 31, 2000. This means the mower was built before then, but it is hard to say exactly when. Generally, most dealers sell off their mower inventory each year, but not always, so it is possible this mower may have been manufactured in 1999, maybe 1998. The mower was sold at retail to a customer in Troy, Michigan a few weeks later on 5/13/2000. Finally, records show there are no open recalls/campaigns/etc. for this unit, so all good to go.

 

[BubbaBob]

Giblet - when I cleaned her up I inspected the fuel line and breather - both pliable, no cracks whatsoever - so I cleaned with carb cleaner, brush then re-installed. I'm aware of the 2 year service interval but they look perfect, even holding up to light and looking through.

Robert - thank you. I'm surprised at the dates, I was figuring much later in the models' production. It's in pretty good shape - no smoke at start-up, minimal corrosion of cutting deck, the tires look fairly new but do have substantial bearing play, and the blade looks to be in good condition.

Three things I'm looking at currently:

1. Having a hard time nailing consistent RPM. Could not achieve 3200, governor adjustment resulted in run-away and that's where I left it until I remove and clean the carb this weekend.

2. For now, and until I get the RPM's set right, I have the trans cable over adjusted in order to get a decent ground speed.

3. Electric start is dead, removed battery and have it charging and currently on de-sulfation mode. She's not providing the voltage to charge the battery so I'll need to look at the charging coil - looks like it might be a bear to get to tho. I guess I really don't need to do this but it's on the machine, I'm a bit weird about things sometimes, so I will eventually fix it.

 

[robert@honda]

I'll need to look at the charging coil - looks like it might be a bear to get to tho.

The charge coils is probably okay; rare to see one fail, but if it does, part number is 31510ZE2-H91, list $46.36. Test it by measuring the resistance, should be 3.0 ~ 4.0 ohms.

A new battery (part number 31500-VA3-P01) is $80 list. The battery is technically a "LCS2912H" and Google shows many different offerings; if you go that route, get one with the correct plug or cut/wire the old plug from the old battery...

If the wall charger is bad, a new one is $50 (list) from any Honda dealer; part number is 31670-VA3-802.

Find A Honda Dealer

 

[Giblet]

Keep us posted on what you end up replacing/fixing. Even if you replace/fix the carb, and the other electrical, you will have one very nice machine. While other neighbors are replacing their mowers every three years, and commenting how old mine is, she has been very faithful.

 

[BubbaBob]

RPM Update

A couple of weeks ago I put the mower on the bench and went to work.

First, removed and cleaned the carb. I discovered that the previous runaway was caused by not firmly seating the carb against the cylinder head, there is 1/32 or so of unthreaded stud that prevented snugging it up. I didn't see that at first so I didn't use the spacers from the air cleaner housing. The local Honda dealer didn't have a carb kit so I didn't replace all of the gaskets/o rings but I did replace the larger spacer-gaskets which would be 13, 14 and 15.

After cleaning and re-installing I could not get RPM to 3200 on high. There are 4 points to adjust RPM (excluding governor): 1st is the throttle stop screw on the carb; 2nd is the adjustment screw on the control; 3rd is the ferrule placement of the throttle cable to the control and 4th is the throttle cable adjustment at the throttle lever. After tweaking and re-tweaking these adjustments I then proceeded to the governor with no affect on increasing RPM. Moving the governor arm manually would increase RPM so I started to tighten the governor spring by bending the attachment "hook" to shorten it. Still, 3000 rpm was all I could get.

When I put everything back together to cut the lawn as soon as I engaged the blade the RPM's shot up 3600 before I switched to low speed and cut the lawn at 3000 rpm. About half way into the cut the engine began stalling out when I tried to re-engage the blade after emptying the bag. I never did try to engage the blade to check RPM when the mower was on the bench.

1. I'm getting inconsistent RPM readings from the tach ( Digital Hour Meter Tachometer Tach Tacho for Yamaha KTM Honda Kawasaki BMW Motorcycle Dirt Bike ATV UTV Quad Generator MX Snowmobile Boat Outboard Jet Ski 4 2 Stroke Gas Engine : Amazon.com : Automotive ) most of the time it is appears to be accurate, but at others I can hear the engine rev up yet the tach displays 2500 rpm.

Anyone have recommendations for a decent tach? The non-contact versions won't allow me to install and keep it on the mower so I can monitor performance. I would like one to keep on the mower until I'm confident the issues are resolved.

2. Prior to cleaning the carb the RPM's would decrease when I engage the blade, now the RPM's increase. Which is right?

3. Why and when would someone replace the carb? I cleaned it according the video from the European site, there doesn't' appear to be any blockages. BUT, I didn't replace the o-ring on the "jet set, pilot" but it appeared fine. Also, I've heard about removing the choke butterfly to get at some balls??

4. When I adjusted the pilot screw it had no effect on rpm whatsover. Should that be???


The valves are dead on. Gas tank was cleaned and gas flows freely to carb.

I would appreciate and suggestions.

Thanks, Bob

 

[SRJMow]

I just purchased the same exact mower for my father from my next door neighbor. The neighbor used it for about five years, and then started hiring people to mow due to her age. It also has the mulching plug and blades. The mower sat around for about ten years, and looked like it had gas left in it that turned to varnish. So I am going through the same carb rebuild/cleaning that you are doing.
Double check that the pilot jet is clear. The main jet was partially blocked on mine, and cleaning that up gave me extra power so it no longer stalled out when I engaged the blades. However it still surges when on maximum idle, and it sounds as if it is reving too high when the blades are engaged. I took the carb off again and found that there is a very small hole on the pilot jet that was plugged up. It took a bit of effort with a very small wire to clear that up. Its very easy to overlook this small hole due to its location and the black color of the plastic jet. I also decided to put the carb and the jets into a small ultrasonic cleaner my wife has for cleaning watches, jewelry, and glasses. That cleaned things up a bit more. I am going to reinstall it today and see if the surging/rpm problem has improved (fingers crossed).

I love this model. If the further cleaning does not do the trick, then I will purchase a new carb and use the old one for parts. Any further time spent cleaning it will not be worth any further effort IMO.
It costs about fifty bucks for this carb when you include gaskets and shipping costs, so its worth trying to clean it at least once or twice. If it were one of the fifteen or twenty five dollar carbs then I would just replace with a new one and not bother cleaning it.

Update: Well, I reinstalled the "cleaner" carb today and it seems to have fixed the surging issues, along with the high revs. No surging at any idle speed at all. It sounds nice and smooth. I messed up a bit and the governor spring came off during the reinstall. I had to guess which of the three notches to reconnect it to and hopefully I chose the right one. I could not find any online picture of this connection. I may experiment with the other two choices to see if it makes a difference or not. I engaged the blades without any trouble (no stalling), and when I disengaged the blades and lowered the speed it did so nicely without any backfiring like I had previously experienced. if Monday's mow goes okay I will consider the cleaning a success. My guess is that the small hole in the pilot jet plays a big role in the air fuel mixture, and if plugged up it can really mess with the idling.

Let me know if you solved your problem or not. Good luck! Your mower looks great!

 

[SRJMow]

BubbaBob, I will try to answer some of your questions as follows:

1) "Anyone have recommendations for a decent tach? The non-contact versions won't allow me to install and keep it on the mower so I can monitor performance. I would like one to keep on the mower until I'm confident the issues are resolved."

No, I was thinking about buying the same tach that you have :frown:.

2. "Prior to cleaning the carb the RPM's would decrease when I engage the blade, now the RPM's increase. Which is right?"

From all that I have read and experienced, the RPM's should increase when the blade is engaged, but the maximum governed speed per the owners manual should be 3,100 rpm + or - 150 rpm. So the 3,600rpm you experienced was much too high. Idle speed with the blade disengaged per the owners manual should be 2,100 rpm + or - 150 rpm.

3." Why and when would someone replace the carb? I cleaned it according the video from the European site, there doesn't' appear to be any blockages. BUT, I didn't replace the o-ring on the "jet set, pilot" but it appeared fine. Also, I've heard about removing the choke butterfly to get at some balls??"

When it is just about as expensive to replace the individual worn out parts (jets, o rings, etc...) as to buy a brand new one, or you reach a frustration level and decide its not worth spending any more time trying to clean it. Never heard about the choke butterfly or have any idea how you could remove it. If its sticking and there is no gunk on it, just shoot a little WD40 in it and that should help.

4. "When I adjusted the pilot screw it had no effect on rpm whatsover. Should that be???"

If your pilot screw is blocked up I am guessing that there would be no effect on rpm when you adjust the pilot screw. If the pilot jet air pathway is blocked, I am guessing that may also prevent the adjustments from having any effect. Just a guess on my part, and I could be wrong. Take a look at the Carburetor Check Sheet at Home - Honda Engines. It shows a neat picture of the carburetor used on the GX140 engine and the possible problem areas depending on the symptoms that are experienced. It helped me a lot.

My guess is that your carb still is plugged up. Most likely somewhere in the pilot jet area or the pilot screw itself. Let us know how you made out.