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Honda AutoChoke - Thoughts
#1
N
NtvTxn
N
NtvTxn
I'm a new to Honda equipment but after doing some legwork I'm about to pull the trigger on a Honda mower (HRR216K9VKA). However, before I do I just want to get some information on the autochoke feature. I've read plenty of reviews and feedback complaining about the feature and how much extra upkeep is needed to keep it in working order. Apparently there are quite a few who think Honda should do away with the feature.
Is the autochoke as bad as I'm hearing?
Is the autochoke as bad as I'm hearing?
#2
robert@honda
Honda has been fitting the autochoke to mowers for a number of years now. Last year, a batch of mowers were manufactured with autochokes parts that were right on the edge of engineering/manufacturing tolerances. One part was plastic and the other was metal, and the metal part pivoted the choke plate. In some cases, the plastic part was just a tiny bit too large, and the metal part was a tiny bit too small, and this would cause the metal part to hang up, forcing the choke plate to stay open all the time. This could make the engine difficult if not impossible to start. Honda engineers recognized the issue and tracked down the serial number ranges of the affected mowers and issued a Service Bulletin back in January advising dealers how to check the mowers and how to replace the defective parts. Dealers were instructed to inspect and repair all new mowers they hand in inventory that were in the affected serial number range.
All current production mowers have updated autochoke parts with improved specifications, and inventory in dealer stock has been inspected and updated as needed. FYI, the "K9" in the model name designates the version number of the mower, and K9 is the most current for this model.
Of course, it is impossible to say with 100% certainty that every single mower out there has been checked, but if you do buy one and it does have an issue, your Honda dealer is very aware of it and it will be repaired under warranty. Ideally, it would be best to purchase from a reputable servicing dealer and discuss the issue with them before the purchase. Pretty good chance they will have a mower already set-up and serviced you can start and run before taking it home, or at least let you know they have inspected it and made any needed updates.
A little tech info: When an engine is cold, it needs more fuel and less air to start, so the air flow is restricted by a plate called a choke. On some mowers, this was manually controlled by a remote lever, or built into the throttle. After the engine has started and warmed up, the choke plate is opened, allowing full flow of air into the engine. The autochoke does this, well, automatically. On a cold engine, a spring holds the choke plate closed all the way. When the engine starts and begins to heat up, a wax cylinder with a small piston inside starts to expand, slowing pushing the piston out. This piston moves a control arm that forces the choke plate to slowly open. When you shut off the engine, the wax in the cylinder cools and contracts, the piston retracts, and the spring pulls the choke closed again.
The only real "trick" to getting the autochoke to work is to remember to let the engine fully warm up. Don't start the engine, then shut it off, then try and restart it again. The choke will be open but the engine will still be too cold, and you'll have trouble starting it.
Hope this helps...
robert@honda
I'm a new to Honda equipment but after doing some legwork I'm about to pull the trigger on a Honda mower (HRR216K9VKA). However, before I do I just want to get some information on the autochoke feature. I've read plenty of reviews and feedback complaining about the feature and how much extra upkeep is needed to keep it in working order. Apparently there are quite a few who think Honda should do away with the feature.
Is the autochoke as bad as I'm hearing?
Honda has been fitting the autochoke to mowers for a number of years now. Last year, a batch of mowers were manufactured with autochokes parts that were right on the edge of engineering/manufacturing tolerances. One part was plastic and the other was metal, and the metal part pivoted the choke plate. In some cases, the plastic part was just a tiny bit too large, and the metal part was a tiny bit too small, and this would cause the metal part to hang up, forcing the choke plate to stay open all the time. This could make the engine difficult if not impossible to start. Honda engineers recognized the issue and tracked down the serial number ranges of the affected mowers and issued a Service Bulletin back in January advising dealers how to check the mowers and how to replace the defective parts. Dealers were instructed to inspect and repair all new mowers they hand in inventory that were in the affected serial number range.
All current production mowers have updated autochoke parts with improved specifications, and inventory in dealer stock has been inspected and updated as needed. FYI, the "K9" in the model name designates the version number of the mower, and K9 is the most current for this model.
Of course, it is impossible to say with 100% certainty that every single mower out there has been checked, but if you do buy one and it does have an issue, your Honda dealer is very aware of it and it will be repaired under warranty. Ideally, it would be best to purchase from a reputable servicing dealer and discuss the issue with them before the purchase. Pretty good chance they will have a mower already set-up and serviced you can start and run before taking it home, or at least let you know they have inspected it and made any needed updates.
A little tech info: When an engine is cold, it needs more fuel and less air to start, so the air flow is restricted by a plate called a choke. On some mowers, this was manually controlled by a remote lever, or built into the throttle. After the engine has started and warmed up, the choke plate is opened, allowing full flow of air into the engine. The autochoke does this, well, automatically. On a cold engine, a spring holds the choke plate closed all the way. When the engine starts and begins to heat up, a wax cylinder with a small piston inside starts to expand, slowing pushing the piston out. This piston moves a control arm that forces the choke plate to slowly open. When you shut off the engine, the wax in the cylinder cools and contracts, the piston retracts, and the spring pulls the choke closed again.
The only real "trick" to getting the autochoke to work is to remember to let the engine fully warm up. Don't start the engine, then shut it off, then try and restart it again. The choke will be open but the engine will still be too cold, and you'll have trouble starting it.
Hope this helps...
#3
B
briggstoro
B
briggstoro
YesI'm a new to Honda equipment but after doing some legwork I'm about to pull the trigger on a Honda mower (HRR216K9VKA). However, before I do I just want to get some information on the autochoke feature. I've read plenty of reviews and feedback complaining about the feature and how much extra upkeep is needed to keep it in working order. Apparently there are quite a few who think Honda should do away with the feature.
Is the autochoke as bad as I'm hearing?
#4
jgayman01
jgayman01
After one particularly bad experiance with a mower that had an auto-choke / auto-throttle I now refuse to buy any power equipment that does not have a manual choke lever.
#5
shacky
shacky
Has Honda considered going back to manual choke? My HR217HXA works like nobodies business. Or is it an EPA issue?
#6
robert@honda
Autochoke was originally requested from both Honda design teams as wells as other mower companies who use Honda engines. The goal was to reduce parts (like choke cables, remote controls) as well as simplify the starting process. For example, one OEM had issues with customers who folded the handlebars on their mowers and kinked the throttle/choke cable. They wanted a way to eliminate this type of problem without adding cost or complexity to the mower. Enter autochoke (as well as fixed-throttle) engines...
Autochoke offers a way to get the mower started with no need for the customer to bend over and press a primer bulb or operate a choke lever. Also, if you are a new user or first-time buyer of a lawn mower (probably a younger person) there's a good chance you have no idea why a choke (or fuel enrichment) is needed on a cold engine that is fitted with a carburetor. I will guess most people under 40 have never driven a car/truck that used a manual choke control. A lawn mower is often the first time these new customer have ever owned or used a small gas engine, and they expect to flip a switch and pull the rope and the engine should start. Experienced users do understand and often prefer a manual choke, but they are not the bulk of new mower buyers.
For now, autochoke and fixed throttle (on mowers with no blade brake clutch) are the direction the mower industry will be taking. Some models (commercial mowers, for example) will still offer manual chokes and throttle controls. While others (premium residential) will likely move toward autochoke but retain manual throttles on models with a blade brake clutch.
I fearlessly predict this will all change at some point when simple fuel-injection systems are available at a price-point that is equal to a carburetor-style engine. No more chokes, and better still, fuel-injection is a bit more tolerant of less-than-fresh fuel, and won't "plug up" like a carburetor often does.
robert@honda
Has Honda considered going back to manual choke? My HR217HXA works like nobodies business. Or is it an EPA issue?
Autochoke was originally requested from both Honda design teams as wells as other mower companies who use Honda engines. The goal was to reduce parts (like choke cables, remote controls) as well as simplify the starting process. For example, one OEM had issues with customers who folded the handlebars on their mowers and kinked the throttle/choke cable. They wanted a way to eliminate this type of problem without adding cost or complexity to the mower. Enter autochoke (as well as fixed-throttle) engines...
Autochoke offers a way to get the mower started with no need for the customer to bend over and press a primer bulb or operate a choke lever. Also, if you are a new user or first-time buyer of a lawn mower (probably a younger person) there's a good chance you have no idea why a choke (or fuel enrichment) is needed on a cold engine that is fitted with a carburetor. I will guess most people under 40 have never driven a car/truck that used a manual choke control. A lawn mower is often the first time these new customer have ever owned or used a small gas engine, and they expect to flip a switch and pull the rope and the engine should start. Experienced users do understand and often prefer a manual choke, but they are not the bulk of new mower buyers.
For now, autochoke and fixed throttle (on mowers with no blade brake clutch) are the direction the mower industry will be taking. Some models (commercial mowers, for example) will still offer manual chokes and throttle controls. While others (premium residential) will likely move toward autochoke but retain manual throttles on models with a blade brake clutch.
I fearlessly predict this will all change at some point when simple fuel-injection systems are available at a price-point that is equal to a carburetor-style engine. No more chokes, and better still, fuel-injection is a bit more tolerant of less-than-fresh fuel, and won't "plug up" like a carburetor often does.
#7
shacky
shacky
Thanks Robert! Great having you give the straight scoop. I don't see that from other vendors.
#8
B
bryson
B
bryson
Robert, Thanks for the information. My Honda dealer called this morning and said it was cranking fine. I then asked him to check on a recall from service bulletin #100. I was on the way to pick the mower up and my Honda dealer called and said my lawnmower was in the recall. They kept it and Honda will send them the parts for repair. I can pick it up when they call and it will be no charge. Without the knowledge you shared with us I would have the same problem again. Thanks to you and the forum.
#9
Wildcat
I'm glad that you got the info you needed and your dealer was straight up with you. Some may have said it was good to go even with the mower under a recall.
I also use a Troy Bilt that has a Honda engine with the auto choke. I like it and the wife loves it. It simplifies the starting process for her. Just pull the lever back and pull to start. The engine sputters and surges for a few seconds and then revs up to full RPM.
Now to sidetrack the thread for a second....
@Robert.....is this the memo from honda that list the problem? If so I think I have a mower that falls under this recall. http://oscar-wilson.com/sk/mtd/MTD-068A.pdf
Wildcat
Robert, Thanks for the information. My Honda dealer called this morning and said it was cranking fine. I then asked him to check on a recall from service bulletin #100. I was on the way to pick the mower up and my Honda dealer called and said my lawnmower was in the recall. They kept it and Honda will send them the parts for repair. I can pick it up when they call and it will be no charge. Without the knowledge you shared with us I would have the same problem again. Thanks to you and the forum.
I'm glad that you got the info you needed and your dealer was straight up with you. Some may have said it was good to go even with the mower under a recall.
I also use a Troy Bilt that has a Honda engine with the auto choke. I like it and the wife loves it. It simplifies the starting process for her. Just pull the lever back and pull to start. The engine sputters and surges for a few seconds and then revs up to full RPM.
Now to sidetrack the thread for a second....
@Robert.....is this the memo from honda that list the problem? If so I think I have a mower that falls under this recall. http://oscar-wilson.com/sk/mtd/MTD-068A.pdf
#10
D
deckeda
I agree with this old prediction, and note that we'll all be waiting quite awhile longer. It took a long time for EFI to come to motorcycles, some of which are still carbureted especially at the low end. But it's a market-based thing. In Europe, where scooters are everywhere, Honda's Ruckus does not have a carburetor.
America is the land of the $50 yard sale mower held together with baling wire and the $100 new-mower-on-sale that runs for a season or three, tops.
D
deckeda
... I fearlessly predict this will all change at some point when simple fuel-injection systems are available at a price-point that is equal to a carburetor-style engine. No more chokes, and better still, fuel-injection is a bit more tolerant of less-than-fresh fuel, and won't "plug up" like a carburetor often does.
I agree with this old prediction, and note that we'll all be waiting quite awhile longer. It took a long time for EFI to come to motorcycles, some of which are still carbureted especially at the low end. But it's a market-based thing. In Europe, where scooters are everywhere, Honda's Ruckus does not have a carburetor.
America is the land of the $50 yard sale mower held together with baling wire and the $100 new-mower-on-sale that runs for a season or three, tops.