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Have 12+ volts, but still- starting problem

#1

R

rigoletto

People,

My MTD 13HP sit down mower has 12.8V at batery. I turn the key to start, and absolutely no sounds- clicks or otherwise. I sometimes hold the key to "on" for 3-5 minutes, believe it or not, until something gives and VROOOOM! (thats hard on your fingers!!)

So, What should I focus on? Oh- this may help- desperately, yesterday, after holding the key to ON for 5 minutes, I gave up, and pushed the mower to my car and jumped it with my car 12v battery. Started right up! How do you figure that? The batery DOES have 12++ V......

Thanks!


#2

L

Lawnranger

The age of the mower could come into play as dirty contacts in the switch could be causing your problem, but that is just a guess from the information you provided so do not go replacing anything yet. If no one else adds to this thread by the time I get back, I'll give you some diagnostic checks to perform.


#3

R

rigoletto

good deal, ranger. meanwhile, wouldnt hurt to clean up a bunch of stufff, right? (just in case)


#4

M

motoman

Voltage often doesn't mean much as sick or dying bats can exhibit 12-14 v of "surface charge." Check the electrolyte for specific gravity with a car hydrometer (squeeze bulb- $3). If low, trickle charge and check again.


#5

R

Rivets

LawnRanger is got you on the right track with connections. If you have a test light, I would start by see if you have power at the small terminal of the solenoid. If there is no power there, I would check all then safety switches, seat, brake, PTO, etc.


#6

R

rigoletto

Wow- thanks for all the good and fast advice! Looks like I have work to do now......


#7

EngineMan

EngineMan

rigoletto said:
People,

My MTD 13HP sit down mower has 12.8V at batery. I turn the key to start, and absolutely no sounds- clicks or otherwise. I sometimes hold the key to "on" for 3-5 minutes, believe it or not, until something gives and VROOOOM! (thats hard on your fingers!!)

So, What should I focus on? Oh- this may help- desperately, yesterday, after holding the key to ON for 5 minutes, I gave up, and pushed the mower to my car and jumped it with my car 12v battery. Started right up! How do you figure that? The batery DOES have 12++ V......

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Where do you put the jump lead's...? that show's you lead's from there are alright doesn't it, and all those so called safety switches, seat, brake, PTO, etc, etc, if all works fine by car battery. If you are putting them on battery lead's, start by cleaning and checking the connections to the battery, and if that does not work, you need a better battery then the one you have, or one with more Amp's. look at the Amp's on the car one am sure you will find more Amp's on that one if you do a battery test on both. Simple logic...!


#8

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
Where do you put the jump lead's...? that show's you lead's from there are alright doesn't it, and all those so called safety switches, seat, brake, PTO, etc, etc, if all works fine by car battery. If you are putting them on battery lead's, start by cleaning and checking the connections to the battery, and if that does not work, you need a better battery then the one you have, or one with more Amp's. look at the Amp's on the car one am sure you will find more Amp's on that one if you do a battery test on both. Simple logic...!
Click to expand...

Geez, more great tips! Thanks, E Man! I put the jumper cables onto the lawnmower's leads directly, so may be its the dirty contacts from battery to those 2 leads, then. easy to do- I will disconnect and clean with wire brush right now......then check starting it.....

Oh- meanwhile- in case that doesnt affect it- time to do voltage checking on all components.

1) What is PTO? And,
2) When checking for voltage with meter leads, how does one turn the spring leaded key to stay "ON"? ?


#9

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

Bad earth, bad battery or solenoid on a mtd usually


#10

R

rigoletto

Update- just cleaned battery of crud, checkd fluid levels inside, full of acid. Then, for the heck of it I connected to car battery again, and NO start! I dont think its the battery, people. Oh- says 275 cold crank amps on mower battery (car has 600 or so).

Now, need to test each component. You mention solenoid- I can find a way to turn key on and stay in that position , not sure how- maybe with a clamp wrench(?) as I need voltage ON to test terminal end at starter (solenoid??)


#11

R

rigoletto

OK- key ON position (with wrench locked), voltmeter red lead to big thick (1/4" or so) red wire going to base of starter (solenoid??) and blk meter lead to engine (ground?) and no voltage!! Am I doing good, people?

Maybe I should bypass the starter and everything by connecting 2 wires from batery directly to that red wire and ground??


#12

R

Rivets

275 CCA is low for most of today's tractors. We recommend a minimum of 350. PTO is power take off. Your engine will not turn over if your PTO is engaged.

Wrong hook-up. Negative test lead to ground. Positive test lead to large terminal on the solenoid coming from the battery, key off, should read 12+ Volts. Positive test lead to small terminal on solenoid, key to start, 12+ Volts.


#13

G

Giles

I had a similar problem with my WH. After charging the battery, overnight, the lights would shine but the engine would not turn over. The battery cable post clamps looked nice and clean, but I decided to clean them anyway.
To my amazement, the battery posts had a hard coating, or glaze on them that a wire brush wouldn't remove.
I scraped the post with a knife until they were shiny, replaced the cables, and it has been fine ever sense.
I have never seen this before but will always remember


#14

L

Lawnranger

Here is the checklist I use to quickly diagnose a no-crank situation. In your particular case, please repeat step #2 at least ten times, just turn the key and watch the light or meter. The reason is I want to test the ignition switch contacts and by turning the key ten times you should either see the light/meter respond every time or if it does not then your switch is suspect.

Start with the basics, don't overlook anything and verify all components.

First, check the fuse(s) and check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good.

Second, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.

Third, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter.

Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).

Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).

Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

Please perform the above checks and report back with your findings in the order listed. Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you don稚 know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.

Your answers to the above checks will determine where we go.


#15

G

gordy1

rigoletto said:
People,

My MTD 13HP sit down mower has 12.8V at batery. I turn the key to start, and absolutely no sounds- clicks or otherwise. I sometimes hold the key to "on" for 3-5 minutes, believe it or not, until something gives and VROOOOM! (thats hard on your fingers!!)

So, What should I focus on? Oh- this may help- desperately, yesterday, after holding the key to ON for 5 minutes, I gave up, and pushed the mower to my car and jumped it with my car 12v battery. Started right up! How do you figure that? The batery DOES have 12++ V......

Thanks!
Click to expand...

it sounds like you have a corroded battery terminal or a bad cable connection by holding the key in the start position it heats up the bad connection until it swells enough to make a connection try cleaning all battery terminals and cable connections an try again good luck


#16

L

Lawnranger

gordy1 said:
it sounds like you have a corroded battery terminal or a bad cable connection by holding the key in the start position it heats up the bad connection until it swells enough to make a connection try cleaning all battery terminals and cable connections an try again good luck
Click to expand...

Could also be the contacts inside the solenoid so make sure to check everything and do not assume the part is good or bad without verification.


#17

R

rigoletto

Thanks people. problem #1- I still am not clear what the solenoid is, so until I know, this may go in circles, but meanwhile, I just jumped the starter (big thick red wire at base of starter) directly from pos terminal from battery and it starts immediately..

Now, lawnranger, I wil study your steps meanwhile. Pls: I need to be clear on solenoid. (maybe I will google solenoid MTD mower and see if i get lucky.....)


#18

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
Thanks people. problem #1- I still am not clear what the solenoid is, so until I know, this may go in circles, but meanwhile, I just jumped the starter (big thick red wire at base of starter) directly from pos terminal from battery and it starts immediately..

Now, lawnranger, I wil study your steps meanwhile. Pls: I need to be clear on solenoid. (maybe I will google solenoid MTD mower and see if i get lucky.....)
Click to expand...

Follow the positive battery cable and it should lead you right to the solenoid. The solenoid has three and sometimes four wire connections, two large and one or two small wire connections. Let me know if this helps.


#19

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
Thanks people. problem #1- I still am not clear what the solenoid is, so until I know, this may go in circles, but meanwhile, I just jumped the starter (big thick red wire at base of starter) directly from pos terminal from battery and it starts immediately..

Now, lawnranger, I wil study your steps meanwhile. Pls: I need to be clear on solenoid. (maybe I will google solenoid MTD mower and see if i get lucky.....)
Click to expand...

Youtube is a good resource sometimes so do a little searching around for, perhaps, "riding lawnmower solenoid".


#20

R

rigoletto

is this it?
Amazon.com: MTD, Ward, Yard Man, Starter Solenoid; 725-1426, 925-1426, 725-0771, 925-0771: Patio, Lawn & Garden

if so, where is it located, as I have not noticed it in plain view.......maybe I should post the exact MTD model #.......


#21

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
Thanks people. problem #1- I still am not clear what the solenoid is, so until I know, this may go in circles, but meanwhile, I just jumped the starter (big thick red wire at base of starter) directly from pos terminal from battery and it starts immediately..

Now, lawnranger, I wil study your steps meanwhile. Pls: I need to be clear on solenoid. (maybe I will google solenoid MTD mower and see if i get lucky.....)
Click to expand...

Here is a link to many pictures of different solenoids: Starter Solenoids


#22

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
is this it?
Amazon.com: MTD, Ward, Yard Man, Starter Solenoid; 725-1426, 925-1426, 725-0771, 925-0771: Patio, Lawn & Garden

if so, where is it located, as I have not noticed it in plain view.......maybe I should post the exact MTD model #.......
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what it looks like in many cases. Just follow the big red wire from the battery and you should find the solenoid.


#23

R

rigoletto

oK, engine is tecumseh OHV 130. I have a note that solenoid is not on engine, but is external. Where is it........


#24

R

rigoletto

Lawnranger said:
Yep, that's what it looks like in many cases. Just follow the big red wire from the battery and you should find the solenoid.
Click to expand...

Thanks, ranger (your post beat mine by seconds
....)


#25

L

Lawnranger

Sorry, I have to go out for a while but post any questions and I or someone else will answer them.


#26

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
oK, engine is tecumseh OHV 130. I have a note that solenoid is not on engine, but is external. Where is it........
Click to expand...

Like I said, just follow the big red wire from the battery and you should find the solenoid.

Good luck and I'll talk to you later.


#27

R

rigoletto

Lawnranger said:
Like I said, just follow the big red wire from the battery and you should find the solenoid.

Good luck and I'll talk to you later.
Click to expand...

No problem, ranger- appreciate the concern! hey, I just found the solenoid! Dirty, dirty, dirty! Gonna clean it up, remove /brush up contacts, and let you know what happens........


#28

R

rigoletto

sheesh- thunder storm outside. have to delay this for now......


#29

R

rigoletto

Update: Wow, I think I figured it out- I tested with test light as advised above (a few posts ago), and the incoming contact (from battery ) on the siolenoid is live, but the other end (end going out of solenoid to starter) is dead/no test light!. Isnt this proof of a bad solenoid, people?


#30

R

rigoletto

Lawnranger said:
Here is the checklist I use to quickly diagnose a no-crank situation. In your particular case, please repeat step #2 at least ten times, just turn the key and watch the light or meter. The reason is I want to test the ignition switch contacts and by turning the key ten times you should either see the light/meter respond every time or if it does not then your switch is suspect.

Start with the basics, don't overlook anything and verify all components.

First, check the fuse(s) and check battery voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good.

Second, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.

Third, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter.

Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).

Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).

Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

Please perform the above checks and report back with your findings in the order listed. Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you don稚 know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.

Your answers to the above checks will determine where we go.
Click to expand...

OOps- forgot to follow up on what Ranger said- to clean the solenoid ground contact site, THEN test again..........


#31

R

Rivets

When testing the solenoid do this with your test light. Large terminal coming from battery you should have power, 12V. Small terminal from the key switch you should have power, 12V when the key is turned to the start position. If no power run a jump from the battery terminal to the small terminal. Solenoid should kick in, if it does not the solenoid is bad. If the solenoid kicks in when jumped to the small terminal you have an electrical problem between the key switch and solenoid.
Et us know what happens.


#32

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
When testing the solenoid do this with your test light. Large terminal coming from battery you should have power, 12V. Small terminal from the key switch you should have power, 12V when the key is turned to the start position. If no power run a jump from the battery terminal to the small terminal. Solenoid should kick in, if it does not the solenoid is bad. If the solenoid kicks in when jumped to the small terminal you have an electrical problem between the key switch and solenoid.
Et us know what happens.
Click to expand...

Thanks, rivets. Now, by "small terminal" do you mean that small "blade" terminal going to small guage wire? Cuz the other 2 terminals are big copper bolt type with 10mm nuts on the ends.......


#33

R

Rivets

Yes. When this terminal gets power it energizes the solenoid magnets to connect the two large terminals.


#34

EngineMan

EngineMan

And you should get full battery power when you do (lead to starter)


#35

R

rigoletto

THIS IS COOL. jUMPED THAT WIRE AND GOT CLICK- CLICK- START- CLICKETY CLICK- START-NOTHING

So, yes, I got something out of it but not sure what that means. The starter DID turn a bit, but then went back to click- click. What does this mean? I did have to hold the wire to the smal terminal for a second or 2 before click click- start. Not, by "start" all I mean to say is the starter DID turn- but engine didnt run yet.


#36

R

rigoletto

Now wait a minute- I just jumped the red hot lead to the other red on the solenoid and the mower started! Man, does that mean solenouid is good and maybe the starter switch is bad?


#37

R

rigoletto

Yup- started it again, this time with jumping red hot lead on solenoid to the small terminal. So, in conclusion:

I started the mower BOTH by jumping to small terminal AND also jumping to red terminal going to starter.


#38

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
Yup- started it again, this time with jumping red hot lead on solenoid to the small terminal. So, in conclusion:

I started the mower BOTH by jumping to small terminal AND also jumping to red terminal going to starter.
Click to expand...

You did not perform step #2 in my checklist properly. Go back and re-read the post and perform the check properly and this will tell you if the ignition switch is bad or the solenoid.


#39

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
Update: Wow, I think I figured it out- I tested with test light as advised above (a few posts ago), and the incoming contact (from battery ) on the siolenoid is live, but the other end (end going out of solenoid to starter) is dead/no test light!. Isnt this proof of a bad solenoid, people?
Click to expand...

Nope. The other side of the solenoid gets energized when the contacts inside the solenoid connect by power to the small lead on the solenoid which magnetically pulls the contacts together.


#40

R

rigoletto

OK, thnaks for being patient ranger, with a new guy. I gotta go back to tha drawing board- the post with the steps. Sounds good. Back outside...........


#41

R

rigoletto

That was easy- Ranger- there is no power to that small termonal! With clutch pedal depressed, key on, test light on small blade terminal. No voltage! Your post with the steps #2 said it now could be safety switch, wiring, or turn on switch . Now, what do I do...........


#42

R

Rivets

Ranger, does it sound like a bad key switch (starter terminal) or safety switch to you? With everything that's posted I'm getting confused. Just reread the entire thread and he does give a unit model number. Didn't some of the MTD units have a fuse?


#43

L

Lawnranger

Rivets said:
Ranger, does it sound like a bad key switch (starter terminal) or safety switch to you? With everything that's posted I'm getting confused. Just reread the entire thread and he does give a unit model number. Didn't some of the MTD units have a fuse?
Click to expand...

Yep, some have a fuse and I mentioned that in step#1. Since there is no power going to the solenoid from the ignition switch, the switch needs to be checked for power going in and coming out. Step #2 determines if it is the switch or solenoid or something further down the line like a bad starter but since there is no power going to the solenoid he needs to look at the control side of the starting system. The problem could still be a safety switch though.


#44

R

Rivets

I agree with you, but I don't think he did the last test with the key in the start position, only in the on position. If he does not do that, he won't know if the lost of power is before or after the solenoid. I wish he would go back to your steps and report what happens after each step or we both will just keep repeating our selves. Am I over thinking this one?


#45

EngineMan

EngineMan

Its working when he "hot wires it" starter turning that is, and like you both are saying he needs to work backwards from the solenoid, first solenoid, fuse in wire if there is one, wiring, ignition switch and safety switch(s). "no feed in the small wire" but like you said, did he turn the key full on (in start position)
Would be easier if he had a wiring diagram for it.
It does seem that you are going around in circles with this one, but let's sit down, have a cold beer and get it back into the workshop...!


#46

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
I agree with you, but I don't think he did the last test with the key in the start position, only in the on position. If he does not do that, he won't know if the lost of power is before or after the solenoid. I wish he would go back to your steps and report what happens after each step or we both will just keep repeating our selves. Am I over thinking this one?
Click to expand...

"Key On" , in my post #41, I meant key on start position. I did follow the steps Ranger said. I know its confudsing, but I think we're almost there, people. I now have studied the switch a bit, and found out there are letters stamped on the back side of it to help troubleshoot. Thats what I could do now. Thanks, Riv and rang!!


#47

L

Lawnranger

Rivets said:
I agree with you, but I don't think he did the last test with the key in the start position, only in the on position. If he does not do that, he won't know if the lost of power is before or after the solenoid. I wish he would go back to your steps and report what happens after each step or we both will just keep repeating our selves. Am I over thinking this one?
Click to expand...

He just clarified with us.


#48

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
"Key On" , in my post #41, I meant key on start position. I did follow the steps Ranger said. I know its confudsing, but I think we're almost there, people. I now have studied the switch a bit, and found out there are letters stamped on the back side of it to help troubleshoot. Thats what I could do now. Thanks, Riv and rang!!
Click to expand...

Now we are at the point where you get to do some research on your own machine. You are going to have to find out how many connectors are on the back of your ignition switch and what each one does. You will need a schematic, which I cannot provide, to determine what each wire is for on the ignition switch and then you will be able to test the switch properly.

Look under the seat of your mower for the model & serial number and then get on the internet and do your homework. If someone else on this forum has the schematic and can provide it for you, it will be a shortcut in time savings for you.


#49

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
"Key On" , in my post #41, I meant key on start position. I did follow the steps Ranger said. I know its confudsing, but I think we're almost there, people. I now have studied the switch a bit, and found out there are letters stamped on the back side of it to help troubleshoot. Thats what I could do now. Thanks, Riv and rang!!
Click to expand...

Wow, my name gets shorter by the post.:confused2::eek:


#50

R

Rivets

So does mine. When it gets to R & R that's when we can have a beer. Post the unit model numbers.


#51

L

Lawnranger

Rivets said:
So does mine. When it gets to R & R that's when we can have a beer. Post the unit model numbers.
Click to expand...

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: LMAO


#52

R

rigoletto

LOL!! You guys have a great sense of humor, as well as the grace to continue with your help!

Now, back from work, time for an espresso, then look for the schematic/tech info......


#53

R

rigoletto

OK, so far, lets start with this diagram I found
Parts and Diagrams for MTD MTD Mdl 130-650G139

It has a handy "zoom in" button to zoom in on the switch.

My Ign switch is part # 725-0267, (I do have my MTD illustrated parts booklet!)

Also, I removed the switch, brushed it well, and on back it says M, S, L, B, and G.

I figure :

M is Magneto(?)
B is Battery
S is starter
L is .....dont know
G is ground

MTD mod # 13A4667 F118, S# is 1C048C 20044 (the 1 could be an I (??))

I am good with resistance checks, etc. have a v good multi meter.......anyone have ohms values ?Also, what do I contact to get values....
Im also looking at the safety switch to study........meanwhile, any guidance whilst Im doing this is appreciated.


#54

R

rigoletto

More info: S is not starter, but solenoid, right Professor?
M is magneto kill?
L is lights (by the way, lights quit years ago- would be nice to get them working again.....)

gonna go out there and try probing around....


#55

R

rigoletto

Not sure if this matters, but so far, ignition switch key to start position , test light shows voltage at the S terminal/blade. But during same position, no test light at small blade terminal on solenoid. Hmmmmmmm, (scratching 2 day old beard stubble, ).......


#56

R

Rivets

Now we're getting some where. Last test shows that you have a safety switch problem. Make sure that the parking brake is set, tranny in nuetral, PTO off. Follow the wires to the next connection and check for voltage in and out. This wire will go to one of the safety switches. Take your time and have patience, these electrical problem troubleshooting plans may take minutes or hours. Been there and done that thousands of times with my students. Don't trust you eyes, also check the wires with your finger tips.


#57

EngineMan

EngineMan

Don't forget to check with you're multimeter the continuity in the wire from (s) on the switch to the small wire on the solenoid by taken off both ends of the wire, Ohm's should be low...!
is the switch something like this one..?

Sorry Rivets got there before me..!

Attachments





#58

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Now we're getting some where. Last test shows that you have a safety switch problem. Make sure that the parking brake is set, tranny in nuetral, PTO off. Follow the wires to the next connection and check for voltage in and out. This wire will go to one of the safety switches. Take your time and have patience, these electrical problem troubleshooting plans may take minutes or hours. Been there and done that thousands of times with my students. Don't trust you eyes, also check the wires with your finger tips.
Click to expand...

OK, Riv. You say safety switch problem- that switch has ben nothing but trouble for years. Had to stuff some sheet metal down there between the spring base and the switch "pin" as I copuldnt get the engine to start otherwise. seems like it needed an extra 1-2 mm of metal to "activate" it. But YEARS ago, this did the trick. maybe now, its goten worse.

Anyway, maybe we are getting somewhere then, if weve focused on the safety........going out there again.

Thanks, Riv


#59

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
Don't forget to check with you're multimeter the continuity in the wire from (s) on the switch to the small wire on the solenoid by taken off both ends of the wire, Ohm's should be low...!
is the switch something like this one..?
Click to expand...

yes, something like that one- just not the exact sequence, but has the same pins included. I will also , in addition to Riv's advice/steps, do your continuity test. But, WHY does the small terminal on solenoid have a stripped orange/white wire which does not go anywhere else (such as ign switch, or safety switch)? S terminal on ign switch is solid orange. makes no sense...

Dang confusing.


#60

R

Rivets

EngineMan is half right, sorry, but if a safety switch is the problem, that reading will be infinite due to the fact that a switch is open.


#61

R

Rivets

Change in wire color means that it is spliced somewhere, as it goes to three safety switches involved.


#62

R

rigoletto

Not only that, but the small terminal wire on solenoid is orange/white, and it does not go to the starter switch. It goes to the safety switch under the big mower blades control lever. No way to test continuity from starter switch wires directly to that small terminal.


#63

R

Rivets

You are correct. That switch is the PTO safety switch. Make sure the it is closing to complete the circuit. Next you must find the brake safety switch and check to see if it is working properly.


#64

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Change in wire color means that it is spliced somewhere, as it goes to three safety switches involved.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Riv.

But sheesh, I spent hours tonight on this, mosquito bitten, back ache, and so far, heres what I got:

1) Solenoid is still good as it clicks when jumper wire goes from pos to small terminal (right?)

2) I tested ohms on BOTH safety switches (cracked the tab on the hard to reach one) , and I got 0.4-0.5 Ohms on both. I got this value by touchiing one meter lead to one connector, and the other meter lead to one other. the other 2 tabs showed no resistivity reading at all (why?). Reading was obtained with the plastic "pin" depressed, of course. Are theese then good safety switches?

3) They say its rare for a ign switch to be bad. Continuity from orange wire on S terminal on ign switch to small term on solenoid showed no ohms. Again, color does not match, and we know the solenoid wire goes to the safety switch not the ign switch. So, not sure if this test is any worth.


#65

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
You are correct. That switch is the PTO safety switch. Make sure the it is closing to complete the circuit. Next you must find the brake safety switch and check to see if it is working properly.
Click to expand...

Thnaks again, Man. (now youre "Man", not Riv). But if I didnt figure this out from my description in 2) above (0.4 ohms test), how else could one test safety switches?


#66

R

Rivets

Yes solenoid is good. Testing safety switches can get tricky. Some are NC and others NO. You have to figure yours out. You said you tested four switches. Can you tell us where each was located, how you tested it and what reading you got. Ex. Tested brake safety switch, pin depressed, reading .04 ohms. Pin open, reading infinite. This will allow us to tell you if we think it is good or bad. I know this is going to take time, but you are our eyes, ears and hands in this operation, we need to see what you feel.


#67

R

Rivets

Simplest way to test is remove connectors and test.


#68

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Yes solenoid is good. Testing safety switches can get tricky. Some are NC and others NO. You have to figure yours out. You said you tested four switches. Can you tell us where each was located, how you tested it and what reading you got. Ex. Tested brake safety switch, pin depressed, reading .04 ohms. Pin open, reading infinite. This will allow us to tell you if we think it is good or bad. I know this is going to take time, but you are our eyes, ears and hands in this operation, we need to see what you feel.
Click to expand...

OK. At least my mind is clear away from the solenoid.

To be clearer: Yes, I removed BOTH safety switches (SS), BOTH tested with same results, on bench, as follows:

Pin not depressed- one blade end to another one ONLY, got 0.4 ohms. Other 2 blade ends showed no ohms (infinity?)

Pin depressed only slightly, ohms on same 2 blades showed infinity. Both SS had exact same results. Too much coincidence for them to test exact same and one be bad, right? Just a hunch.


#69

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
You said you tested four switches. .
Click to expand...

Just to help clarify more- when I said 4 switches, I meant I touched all 4 blade ends on the safety switch. So, its not 4 switches, but rather 4 terminal blade ends on EACH safety switch.....

Only found a ohms reading when connecting only 2 of the blade terminals, though. (explained this earlier, but not sure if I made it clrear)


#70

R

Rivets

Getting confused again. Are you telling me that each safety switch has four wires connected to it?


#71

R

Rivets

Try that again. Are there two or four terminals on each safety switch?


#72

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Getting confused again. Are you telling me that each safety switch has four wires connected to it?
Click to expand...

Right. I just asumed you knew the setup- but if not, no biggee- I guessed all MTD's were all the same(?)

Yes- each switch has 4 blade ends inside. Call them connectors. They clip onto the harness holding 4 wire ends, BUT, I think (memory) 2 of those connectors have 2 wires stuffed into one blade end. One has 2 yellows. Another might have a or/ and or/blk. Either way, the ohms reading is for the blade end, even if it had 2 wires onto it....

Hope that helps, Riv.


#73

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Try that again. Are there two or four terminals on each safety switch?
Click to expand...

four. (and, again, 2 had no resistivity when tested either with pin pushed in or not pushed in. ). But both tested exactly the same.


#74

R

rigoletto

Yaaaawwwwnnnn, gees, Riv, maybe I'll have to see ya again tomorow night. Too tired. Gonna watch maybe Ancient Aliens, or Little House on the Prarie. in bed. Have a good night, and big thanks.........


#75

R

Rivets

Please send the model number of the tractor. I have to look this one up.


#76

R

Rivets

Ok, tomorrow


#77

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Please send the model number of the tractor. I have to look this one up.
Click to expand...

I posted it in my Post # 53.........mod and ser # too......

My manual's diagrams are soooo tiny, almost useless.


#78

R

Rivets

According to the diagram, there are four safety switches. Seat, reverse, clutch, and PTO. According to the wiring diagram, the yellow wires are for the starting circuit and the red wires are part of the reverse over ride circuit. We will concentrate on the yellow wires. To start the engine current leaves the key switch and goes to the clutch safety switch. Brake pedal pushed down safety switch closes sending current to the seat safety switch. Sitting on the seat closes the safety switch sending current to both the PTO switch and the reverse switch. If the reverse safety switch is working properly, with the unit in reverse the circuit will be grounded and the unit will not start. If the unit is in neutral the switch is open and current will go to the PTO switch. If the PTO switch is working properly with the PTO off the current will go to the solenoid, allowing the engine to start.
After I went through the diagram you listed ( I know this is not your unit ) i think you must also have weight on the seat to start the engine. I hope this makes sense to you. It is much more difficult to troubleshoot this when I cannot see everything you see. I will continue to work with you to solve this problem, as long as you want me to. Sorry, I know that I repeat my questions, but I am working through your eyes, and with other posters, and I forget which units I am talking about. Please bear with my short comings, as some on this forum don't feel that I know what I am talking about. Would you also check that unit brand name and model number. I cannot find it in any of my MTD material.


#79

EngineMan

EngineMan

Rivets said:
EngineMan is half right, sorry, but if a safety switch is the problem, that reading will be infinite due to the fact that a switch is open.
Click to expand...

I have no diagrams to go by, so just working off one's head, Didn't mean to get in the way, I to couldn't find any good info on this just yet, so will sit back on this one.:rolleyes:


#80

R

Rivets

Please don't, this ones got me going in circles and I could use any help I can get. I would appreciate it if you went through the entire thread and give me your thoughts and ideas. The diagram listed is not for his unit, but I think it is close. Remember I'm told by some I don't know what I am talking about.


#81

EngineMan

EngineMan

Ok will stay with you and reread the post (again) and always remember there is always someone out there who believe's they're know more then you, that goe's in one ear and out the other one with me...!:laughing: will be back.


#82

R

Rivets

This one's 11 years old and claims to be a professional. My teaching experience kicks in when he posts answers that can get someone hurt or spend more $$$ than needed. I'll get over it.


#83

EngineMan

EngineMan

I have a manual on the Tecumseh ohv 130, but it seems that the problem is not to do with this, its on the unit itself, reading you lost post re (*78) check list, the owner should be able to work it out, I can't add anymore to what you say in that post, we know its intermittent, it seem's that its not the solenoid, so that leave's key switch and I believe that is working fine..! if checks are now made to all wiring, all connections, and all safety switch(s) like you say, working one's way from key switch to solenoid, one may (will) find a switch(s) that will need a good clean or to be replaced.


#84

R

Rivets

Thanks for your input EngineMan, hope he can find the problem, don't you luv electrical problems.


#85

L

Lawnranger

Rivets said:
Please don't, this ones got me going in circles and I could use any help I can get. I would appreciate it if you went through the entire thread and give me your thoughts and ideas. The diagram listed is not for his unit, but I think it is close. Remember I'm told by some I don't know what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Rivets, I am with engine man on this one. I do not have a schematic for him so I will not be much help from this point on and I do not want to be "one too many cooks in the kitchen" so I will be reading this one but not adding to it since I cannot help much. I am sending you a pm a little later to get an idea or two from you.


#86

R

Rivets

Lawn ranger, please keep watching this one. I may need to bounce ideas off you and EngineMan later.


#87

L

Lawnranger

Rivets said:
Lawn ranger, please keep watching this one. I may need to bounce ideas off you and EngineMan later.
Click to expand...

No problem. I am better at working on these machines than trying to guide folks through the steps as so much can be lost in translation, if you catch my drift. As you probably know, safety switches are a little more common than ignition switches so I naturally lean toward a defective safety switch but you never know until you make the necessary checks. The clutch/brake safety switch sees a lot of use so I usually start there.


#88

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

Going by the model no this is the diagram
Outdoor Power Equipment Parts: Use the Part Finder Tool from MTD


#89

R

Rivets

Pug, I knew there where people out there smarter than me. I don't know how you found that diagram, I've been trying with no luck. Thanks for your input. When I get a chance I'm going to take a good look at it and see if I can figure out what I am doing wrong on this one. Thanks again.


#90

EngineMan

EngineMan

Only two safety switches on this, should make life a bit easier, am looking forward in writing a book on this one lad's...!:laughing:


#91

R

Rivets

Sorry, 3 maybe 4 safety switches on this one. Two 4 terminal safety switches (part number 725-1657A) and 1 reverse switch (part number 725-1643) and then if you look to the right hand side of the wiring diagram you will see a lead not attached to any part. On the seat breakdown they list a seat switch optional ( part number 783-0611)


#92

EngineMan

EngineMan

OK fair point, sometimes I do ask myself why I became a member, should have taken up fishing...!:mad:


#93

R

rigoletto

back from work- OK, no need to apologise, Riv, as you are working hard. I cant complain about that.

Now, I will study your recent post, BUT, it just hit me- This may be big:

For years now, the transmission has behaved badly- most of the time, when the stick is in neutral, youd expect the mower to roll easily back/forth, but noooooooo. It is STUCK, meaning when in neutral, the mowwer is still in gear- wont roll for beans until started. . Frustrates the heck out of me. Reason I mentuion this is I read somewhere (manual??) that if the mower is NOT in neutral, it wont start. So, can it be that this is a problem with interference with the elec starting circuit?

I can live with the annoyance of the mower being "stuck" not being able to be rolled for/aft, but if this interferes with circuit, maybe we got something here. Note: sometimes, when placed in neutral, it DOES roll easily for/aft, as it is truly in neutral.

Also, just to be prepared- I am prepared to give the mower a vasectomy. These starter safety switches- what good are they? Cant I just hot wire them all (jump the contacts)? Like, what is the big deal anyway? If the mower tips over/rolls over, will a "safety switch stop the blades? If not, what good are these swicthes?

I jumped the Dummy switch on the clutch on my old stick shift car. No biggee. True- no cutting blades on that.


#94

R

Rivets

Slow down, no need to look that far ahead. We have given you a long list of homework while you were out. Reread it all three times and then go find the three or four safety switches. Believe me they are there. Once you find them go through the test we posted for you. TEACHER VOICE NOW. Follow the instructions listed, don't skip steps, don't over think it and go slow. Lawnranger , EngineMan, PugAltitude, and I are all in agreement, that if your do as we say, you will find the problem tonight. Trust us, we think we're pros.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


#95

R

rigoletto

And, Riv, I know we can go in circles on such a problem, so I am prepared to either hot wire the 2 safety switches and/or spend the stupid $10 on ebay for the ign switch AND another $20 for 2 safety switches. Cheap. Then, even if that doesnt solve it, THEN we come back here......LOL!!!


#96

EngineMan

EngineMan

rigoletto said:
back from work- OK, no need to apologise, Riv, as you are working hard. I cant complain about that.

Now, I will study your recent post, BUT, it just hit me- This may be big:

For years now, the transmission has behaved badly- most of the time, when the stick is in neutral, youd expect the mower to roll easily back/forth, but noooooooo. It is STUCK, meaning when in neutral, the mowwer is still in gear- wont roll for beans until started. . Frustrates the heck out of me. Reason I mentuion this is I read somewhere (manual??) that if the mower is NOT in neutral, it wont start. So, can it be that this is a problem with interference with the elec starting circuit?

I can live with the annoyance of the mower being "stuck" not being able to be rolled for/aft, but if this interferes with circuit, maybe we got something here. Note: sometimes, when placed in neutral, it DOES roll easily for/aft, as it is truly in neutral.

Also, just to be prepared- I am prepared to give the mower a vasectomy. These starter safety switches- what good are they? Cant I just hot wire them all (jump the contacts)? Like, what is the big deal anyway? If the mower tips over/rolls over, will a "safety switch stop the blades? If not, what good are these swicthes?

I jumped the Dummy switch on the clutch on my old stick shift car. No biggee. True- no cutting blades on that.
Click to expand...

Am not liking this...! If you take out all safety switches you are putting you're self and others at risk, not only have you now telling us that you have problem's with the gearbox not going in or out of gear, and if in gear will stay in gear, hmm lets just say that you do cut out all safety, you jump off engine running mover now desired to a funny moment and off it go's across next doors lawn with 2 year old playing....just one reason why safety should always come first. I and I hope better members on here will NOT tell you, or would advice you to do such a thing, we are here to help you repair things, and never ever will tell you to put you're or other's life's at risk.

Keep working on the problem, with help, you will get there am sure.


#97

R

Rivets

I will tell you this, if you decide to start jumping safety switches just to solve the problem, I'm out of here. Sorry that's the teacher in me, quick fixes lead to bad results.


#98

G

Giles

Rivets said:
I will tell you this, if you decide to start jumping safety switches just to solve the problem, I'm out of here. Sorry that's the teacher in me, quick fixes lead to bad results.
Click to expand...
I totally agree:thumbsup: They were installed for a reason---even though they were forced to-----and I have no problem with any of them. On older machines, I have actually install a switch to prevent starting in gear.:thumbsup:


#99

R

rigoletto

OK, not a problem at all, people. Thats why I asked your opinions on it- I wasnt bent on it- just asked (and I did) what would happen if I did. So, onto the problem again. But, remember my other point in that post- I can spend a few $ to swap out stuff ONLY if/when yous suggest its time to do it. I am open to that idea.

Mower will not run out of control with blades running to chop the next door's little kid. My "gear " problem exists only when mower is shut off, get it? Once its running, gears shift correctly. Only reason I mentioned it was not to dwell on the mower in neutral "stuck" when off problem, only that if this could interfere with starting electrics.

And if this is irrelevent to circuitry, we can focus again on basics of wiring without the trans issue.

Thanks again, people


#100

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
I will tell you this, if you decide to start jumping safety switches just to solve the problem, I'm out of here. Sorry that's the teacher in me, quick fixes lead to bad results.
Click to expand...

I agree, Riv. Im cool. And, I need you here.


#101

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto, does your mower have a hydrostatic drive?


#102

R

rigoletto

Lawnranger said:
rigoletto, does your mower have a hydrostatic drive?
Click to expand...

hmmm, not sure what that is. I guess not, as I have not seen that mentioned anywhere in my manual. Also, if that required hydraulic fluids, etc, do not have any of that.......no fluids other than engine oil.


#103

R

rigoletto

manual: "Model Series 660 thru 679 transmatic lawn tractors"

Mod 13A4667 F118

Years ago, I talked to a MTD tech and he said the 5th, 6th, and 7th digits in mod # is the model. So above, thats mod # 667.
does that help determine if its a hydrostatic?


#104

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Sorry, 3 maybe 4 safety switches on this one. Two 4 terminal safety switches (part number 725-1657A) and 1 reverse switch (part number 725-1643) and then if you look to the right hand side of the wiring diagram you will see a lead not attached to any part. On the seat breakdown they list a seat switch optional ( part number 783-0611)
Click to expand...

meanwhile, Riv's homework- I got 2 swicthes a;lready- gonna find the other 2.....


#105

R

rigoletto

heres 2 pictures: first pic- loose yell/blk wire is dangling. This I think is the seat safety wire, but not sure where it attaches. BUT, this shouldnt interfere with starting, right? This is a good thing if rider gets off, and engine dies, right? Its been so long since this ripped off- I cant remember how it works. Evidently, this probably didnt contribute to the nion start problem. I believe. Still, I want to find where it hooks up.....
000_0098.jpg


#106

R

rigoletto

Supposedly, in this pic, theres supposed to be a safety switch near the F-N-R lever shown here, but where is this switch? Thats why I posted this picture. See the lever in back? It just goes to a C type spring. I dont see a switch, let alone wire that would atach to it.
000_0099.jpg


#107

L

Lawnranger

rigoletto said:
heres 2 pictures:
000_0098.jpg
Click to expand...

Where does that yellow with black tracer wire go that is off to the left in the picture? The one that looks like the insulation is stripped back about 1/2".


#108

R

Rivets

Yellow/blackstrip is part of the safety switch circuit and needs to be hooked up. It runs from the seat switch and one of the two 4 wire safety switches you have found. Also, have you checked that fuse???


#109

R

Rivets

Also, look under the seat for one switch and by your shift lever for the other.


#110

SONOFADOCKER

SONOFADOCKER

We have professional and home owners that drop off machines with NO START issues . A lot of times it's connectors packed with dirt and grass .
Your harness is simple . Just follow it . Unplug it clean it .
Let us know .


#111

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Yellow/blackstrip is part of the safety switch circuit and needs to be hooked up. It runs from the seat switch and one of the two 4 wire safety switches you have found. Also, have you checked that fuse???
Click to expand...

Sorry, Riv, but I should have told you way before, but yes, that fuse is tight there- its still good. The "stripped" wire is the safety for the reverse, I believe. It should attach to a kind of "short" metal tab under the cover plate. Simple enough, considering what weve been through.

BUT, yes, I could hook it up but all that does is stop the blades when reversing, right? (BTW, how does it do that if the blades are controled by the pulleys/belts, not wiring, right?)

AND, thanks to Riv (the Prof who's always prodding me to do homework....LOL) , I also found the last safety switch, at the seat. Its just a simple metal tab that short circuits the engine when rider gets off, I believe. Still, I dont get what this has to do with starting problem.

I think the only safety switch problem relevant to starting is the 2: clutch/brake, AND maybe the blades STOP lever/when "parked" (PDO??)

And, they are 4 wire switches. Again, I tested them for Ohms. 0.4 each. Getting there............


#112

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Yellow/blackstrip is part of the safety switch circuit and needs to be hooked up. It runs from the seat switch and one of the two 4 wire safety switches you have found.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, thats a head scratcher. Doesnt this hook up to the tab under the square "plate" that one removes to access (accesss plate)? So the F-N-R lever/shifter hits it when reverse lever touches it? Thats not under the seat, as so far, I didnt fiind anything under seat. (willl double look again tomorrow).


#113

R

Rivets

If you look at all the posts there are four people trying to help you solve this problem. If you read my post #78 and pugs post #88 look at that wiring diagram you will see what I am talking about. Remember I told you to just concentrate on the yellow wires, they control the starting. Take a test like and follow what I posted in #78, yellow wires only.


#114

R

Rivets

Hook up that wire and don't worry about reverse until the engine starts. Reverse has nothing to do with getting engine to start. Talk to you tomorrow.


#115

EngineMan

EngineMan

Can I ask was the photo's taken before or after you cleaned the solenoid, if after I would take solenoid off and clean the big connections, and also the bolts and make sure it as a good ground, (earth) take a lead off the battery before doing so. it may not be the main problem, but its worth doing anyway.


#116

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
Can I ask was the photo's taken before or after you cleaned the solenoid, if after I would take solenoid off and clean the big connections, and also the bolts and make sure it as a good ground, (earth) take a lead off the battery before doing so. it may not be the main problem, but its worth doing anyway.
Click to expand...

Officially, all contacts were cleaned/brushed. I know it still looks yucky, though.....They are "clean."


#117

R

rigoletto

BUT.......Update: Yipeeeeeee, I finally got voltage going to the small terminal on solenoid!!!!! (giggling, childish like).......

Now, Im not there yet, but man, this is , I believe, good news, as before, I couldnt get voltage to that termional! But, now, still no voltage to starter. Sooo, maybe its the solenoid? I mean, if voltage goes to the small terminal and not "jumping" to the othet "outgoing" terminal to starter, isnt that proof of a bad solenoid?

(apparently, after cleaning all contacts/removing crud etc from safety switches, mounting al back again, that allowed for voltage to go to that path). Just mu edjukatid guess.......)


#118

EngineMan

EngineMan

If you have given the solenoid a CLEANING and its still not working knowing that you have right volts there, then replace it.


#119

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
If you have given the solenoid a CLEANING and its still not working knowing that you have right volts there, then replace it.
Click to expand...

Good deal, eng man. So, its consensus after all these posts- its the solenoid? Plain and simple? If so, its a $10 item, can order today......


#120

R

Rivets

That what I would do, maybe we will be able to put this one to bed soon.


#121

L

Lawnranger

The part that bothers me is that when he did not have 12 volts from the ignition switch going to the small terminal on the solenoid but jumped 12 volts to the small terminal on the solenoid from the battery, the starter cranked the engine. Now he has 12 volts going to the small terminal from the ignition switch and the starter does not engage. What did I miss?


#122

R

Rivets

LawnRanger is correct, try jumping the small terminal on the solenoid again, from the large positive terminal on the solenoid and tell use what happens before ordering a new solenoid.


#123

EngineMan

EngineMan

That maybe a little late now boy's...!


#124

R

rigoletto

Its never too late, guys!!! I didnt order it yet- just got back from work, and read these posts. OK, let me try jumping it. But, you know- sometimes it works, and sometimes it could not work, meaning intermitten/just about to quit, eh? Thats what I think might be going on....

Gonna try it now........


#125

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
LawnRanger is correct, try jumping the small terminal on the solenoid again, from the large positive terminal on the solenoid and tell use what happens before ordering a new solenoid.
Click to expand...

Now, to be exact, you mean jump from large pos term (from battery) to small terminal? Or Lrg pos term (from batt) to other Lrge term (to starter)??


#126

R

rigoletto

OK, dont worry- I did it both ways. Solenoid clicks when I jump from pos term (from batt) to small term, engine does not start of course. Does nothing though, when I jump both heavy pos terminals. (batt to starter) . Could be the copper wire Im using is not thick enough?? Its a single strand (solid) 14/2 wire. I had lying around. Kinda bothers me that when jumped, the starter does not start. Again, maybe its that wire.


#127

EngineMan

EngineMan

Will the engine turn over when you put the wire from + battery to small connecter on solenoid.


#128

EngineMan

EngineMan

The solenoid may click there is two main reasons for this one the battey is too low, or two (this is what I think it is) that the plate inside the solenoid is not bridging correctly, therefore no power going to starter.
Am sure someone will say that connections need cleaning (yes that is right) but you have done all that and still no go.
I have said this before, if it was me having done all that you have done, if you have done all that we on here have told you to do, I whould replace the solenoid, its the only way to find out if its the problem.


#129

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
Will the engine turn over when you put the wire from + battery to small connecter on solenoid.
Click to expand...

Update, and to answer your question: Only sometimes!! I did it both ways over and over, you know. Maybe once every 5 times engine turns over. Also, I re buffed the smitherines out of thos 2 contacts until they shined soooooo yellow bright, and man, what a difference!! Now, when wire is jumped from one pos to the other directly, engine turns over every time!!


#130

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
The solenoid may click there is two main reasons for this one the battey is too low, or two (this is what I think it is) that the plate inside the solenoid is not bridging correctly, therefore no power going to starter.
Am sure someone will say that connections need cleaning (yes that is right) but you have done all that and still no go.
I have said this before, if it was me having done all that you have done, if you have done all that we on here have told you to do, I whould replace the solenoid, its the only way to find out if its the problem.
Click to expand...

You right, engine! Looks like I didnt clean them enough!! Geez, never would figured. Anyway, I truly think we got it now! I dont see what eldse there is to do. So, if you say GO, I will push the BUY NOW button on ebay.....LOL (hey man, dont worry, ifn the new solenoid still doesnt work, Im not gonna blame that on no one. ) Its time, figure.......


#131

EngineMan

EngineMan

If you have power coming from the key switch when you turn it to start on the small wire going to the solenoid, then yes go for a new one.


#132

R

rigoletto

should this do for my model #?
MTD Starter Solenoid, 725-1426, 925-1426, 725-0771 | eBay


#133

R

rigoletto

EngineMan said:
If you have power coming from the key switch when you turn it to start on the small wire going to the solenoid, then yes go for a new one.
Click to expand...

yes, I also tried the key switch (forgot to mention that) and the small terminal clicks.......


#134

EngineMan

EngineMan

Yes that will do the job....!


#135

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

Didnt I say solenoid on page one??? :biggrin: :thumbsup: :laughing:


#136

R

rigoletto

pugaltitude said:
Didnt I say solenoid on page one??? :biggrin: :thumbsup: :laughing:
Click to expand...

You were right, pug. Geez, shoulda just bought one, but then, would not have leart all that I have learnt.


#137

R

rigoletto

But its not over- remember, whenst I will install the parts, I will come back here to report . Then we can have a beer. But no beers that start with the letter "B".


#138

EngineMan

EngineMan

I do hope it does work, not just for you, but for the lad's on here, O and me, they're will never let me into the workshop again if am wrong with this......:frown:


#139

L

Lawnranger

pugaltitude said:
Didnt I say solenoid on page one??? :biggrin: :thumbsup: :laughing:
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Yes, you did say solenoid on page one but we also had a safety switch wire disconnected so we were trying to diagnose all the problems and sometimes it takes extra time. You and I could have used a test light and/or meter and diagnosed this in minutes but when you have someone who is new to all this you have to walk them through it. No harm done, it's all good.


#140

R

Rivets

Ok pug, we owe you a Guiness, come on over and collect. But remember we haven't heard it start yet.


#141

R

rigoletto

Santa Clause just came with a present, so I opened it, popped in a new solenoid, and Yippeeeeeee!! It works!!! Startes evary time I turned the switch (tried it a few X).

Good work, people.

Now, only last little thing- I noticed I need a new belt- the one which is the highest level. What do you call it, as I need to source one on ebay......"drive belt, MTD"??

Thanks!!


#142

EngineMan

EngineMan

If its the one coming off the engine, then yes its the main drive belt.

Its taken a long time more time then it should have to get there, but you made it in the end, am now out of the doghouse and back into the workshop.:laughing: well done to all.:thumbsup:


#143

R

Rivets

Congratulations, on a long job well done. For an MTD belt, I would take it off, go to your auto parts store and have them match it to a Gates belt.


#144

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
Congratulations, on a long job well done. For an MTD belt, I would take it off, go to your auto parts store and have them match it to a Gates belt.
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Hmmm, you think that wil match up close enough? Done it before? If so, thats what Ill do.


#145

R

rigoletto

OK, so now, who has the beer?


#146

R

Rivets

If I had to chose between Gates and MTD, I would take Gates. I prefer a cold Beefeater martini, extra, extra dry.


#147

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

Lawnranger said:
Yes, you did say solenoid on page one but we also had a safety switch wire disconnected so we were trying to diagnose all the problems and sometimes it takes extra time. You and I could have used a test light and/or meter and diagnosed this in minutes but when you have someone who is new to all this you have to walk them through it. No harm done, it's all good.
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I mainly kept out of this one due to enough people helping out.
If more got involved then it would be confusing.
I got lost after page 2! :laughing:


#148

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

I would use MTD belt.
Iv had more hassle with MTD customers trying other brand belts and then having to fit genuine.
MTD belts have a different size which fits in the pulleys.
And Gates belts are originally made 5 mins up the road from me!


#149

R

rigoletto

pugaltitude said:
I would use MTD belt.
Iv had more hassle with MTD customers trying other brand belts and then having to fit genuine.
MTD belts have a different size which fits in the pulleys.
And Gates belts are originally made 5 mins up the road from me!
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Thnaks, pug, Let me try to source it online, and if I can get the authentic MTD, its done. I too, have had trouble to "match up" belts, although, on cars, not mower. I still appreciate the perspective of Rivets- its always an option to go to local auto store.


#150

R

rigoletto

Rivets said:
If I had to chose between Gates and MTD, I would take Gates. I prefer a cold Beefeater martini, extra, extra dry.
Click to expand...

OK, rethinking gates- going to the grocery store now to buy vegetables. Auto store is right there.


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