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Noticed that I have this common leak from where the governor shaft protrudes from the crankcase. Honda machined a recess for a seal but does not include the seal with a new engine. Two videos, Taryl & Doublewide 6, show how to insert the proper seal but warn that you have to be careful not to push too hard on the shaft otherwise it might, emphasize "might," fall into the engine. They warn about the potential but say that they are not certain. Reason I ask is because it would be a whole lot easier to tap the seal into place with the appropriate size socket vs trying to wedge it into place with a screwdriver or punch while holding the shaft (to keep it from sliding) with pliers (see below). Anyone ever actually lost the shaft into the engine? Or is the shaft in fact otherwise secured so that this mishap can't occur.

It has been my experience with those engines that the oil leaks around the shaft when the engine is overfilled with oil. Most people fill the oil up to the top of the threads but in reality the proper oil level is lower as marked on the dipstick.

ILENGINE said:

It has been my experience with those engines that the oil leaks around the shaft when the engine is overfilled with oil. Most people fill the oil up to the top of the threads but in reality the proper oil level is lower as marked on the dipstick.

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Agree with you. But I am & have been conscious of Honda's oil checking method; i.e., insert & lay the dipstick on top of the tube but don't screw it in. Yet I have oil accumulating around & just below the governor shaft on both a GCV160 & a GCV190. Actually, I am not surprised that I haven't gotten many replies on this issue because most are not aware of it. Here is Doublewide6's video:

Here is what i am getting at. in the following picture of the GCV160-190 dipstick the skip line across the dipstick about an inch from the bottom is the full mark. When that engine is full of oil the oil level is below the governor shaft. There is no reason for the oil to leak around the shaft other than minor seepage that will collect dust with or without the seal.

The only time I’ve encountered an oil leak there, if it is not over filled, is when the customer is mowing on a steep side hill with that side of the engine down slope..

ILENGINE said:

Here is what i am getting at. in the following picture of the GCV160-190 dipstick the skip line across the dipstick about an inch from the bottom is the full mark. When that engine is full of oil the oil level is below the governor shaft. There is no reason for the oil to leak around the shaft other than minor seepage that will collect dust with or without the seal.

Honda 15650Z0L000 Dipstick - Jacks Small Engines

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I see your point about the appropriate oil level being below the the gov. shaft but I still suspect the seal. I have included a picture of my dipstick along with the one you referenced at Jack's. They are different for some reason. Anyway, there are 9 diamonds (the etchings on the stick look kinda like diamonds) on my stick and my level (though hard to see because my oil is very clean) presently is 3 below the top diamond. So definitely not overfilled. Yet my gov. shaft is coated with oily grime as in the blurry picture (sorry, couldn't focus better for some reason). In fact there is a considerable amount on the deck below the shaft as well. BTW, my yard is flat, a little bumpy in places, but flat. Appreciate your input; I am open minded about this and I have seen your other posts which are very insightful.

Why not just install the seal per Double wides video? While the engine is running oil is splashed all over the place and theoretically it could leak out regardless if it is above or below the shaft. It looks pretty simple for someone with average mechanical ability. If that is the problem it should solve it. Good luck.

Just a thought, have you checked to see if the breather is working properly. If it is not you could be building crankcase pressure causing oil to find the easiest way out. If the breather is the problem, putting a seal there won’t help, just be blown out. That’s what my average mechanical ability tells me to check.

If everything is working properly the crankcase should be operating under a vacuum therefore oil won't leak around the governor shaft. Honda doesn't install a seal there because since the shaft is above the oil level and everything is operating properly it won't leak. Other engine manufacturers don't use a seal for the shaft if the shaft is normally above the oil level. Look at any old briggs, kohler etc.

Good points all. But remember my original post was simply to see if anyone has attempted this (guess not) and could weigh in on Taryl & Doublewide's warning that the gov. shaft could potentially (they are not certain) slip back into the engine when installing the seal.

JBtoro said:

Good points all. But remember my original post was simply to see if anyone has attempted this (guess not) and could weigh in on Taryl & Doublewide's warning that the gov. shaft could potentially (they are not certain) slip back into the engine when installing the seal.

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The answer is possibly slip back in. there are a few engines that can drop the shaft into the engine if you loose control of it. I think some of the older Kohlers, and Briggs were that way with the shaft coming out of the top of the block.

I guess you have to ask yourself how bad is the oil leak and how much does it bother you. Does it leak when the engine is running or while it is off? I understand your reservations in doing this. I have never attempted it and i am sorry you are not getting your question answered. Based on the videos of two experienced people I would feel confident doing it. They are being responsible giving you all of the warnings. People of all levels will be watching it. If you try it, Put some oil on the seal before you atempt to insert it to help it seat easier. You have to ask yourself why does Honda make such a part if it is not needed? It would be nice to know their answer and rational in not installing it any longer.

You must remember that IL and I are service techs. Never attempted to place a seal there as the purpose of a technician is to find and solve the problem, not try to put a bandaid on it and hope it works. We tried to help you solve the problem using the knowledge we have gained through one or two years of experience. That’s why we replied the way we did. Our knowledge and experience has shown us that this is the way to proceed, sorry if that was not what you are looking for.

Don't get me wrong; I get it. And I appreciate everyone's input. I think several of you are saying (wisely) that If it is not a beneficial part, regardless of what Taryl & Doublewide have posted, then why even mess with it and run the risk of sending the shaft into the engine. Another way of putting it: Is the marginal benefit of the seal worth the headache of cracking open the case to retrieve the shaft? In any case, I think this discussion has been useful, given that both of the aforementioned YouTubers have thousands of viewers.

If you look at most any vertical shaft engine, most all of them will 'weep' oil down the shaft over time and it attracts dirt and looks bad. To answer your question, I installed a seal on mine because I just didn't the dirt accumalation. Yes, if not careful, you can push the governor shaft into the engine because you have to remove the retainer clip that would otherwise prevent it from sliding into the case to install the seal. Honestly, I found it to be a challenge to get that lil' seal installed without damage of issue and found it easier to remove the engine and drop the pan from the start.
The casting for a seal is there because Honda offers an engine type that is designed to run at up to 45 degrees (cylinder up) and it is necessary to seal it as the oil level will be well above the governor shaft at that angle.

Honda Tech said:

If you look at most any vertical shaft engine, most all of them will 'weep' oil down the shaft over time and it attracts dirt and looks bad. To answer your question, I installed a seal on mine because I just didn't the dirt accumalation. Yes, if not careful, you can push the governor shaft into the engine because you have to remove the retainer clip that would otherwise prevent it from sliding into the case to install the seal. Honestly, I found it to be a challenge to get that lil' seal installed without damage of issue and found it easier to remove the engine and drop the pan from the start.
The casting for a seal is there because Honda offers an engine type that is designed to run at up to 45 degrees (cylinder up) and it is necessary to seal it as the oil level will be well above the governor shaft at that angle.

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That's exactly the info I was seeking. You really know your stuff. Thank you.

They all do it as far as I know, and with the oil splashing around when the engine is running, oil level really doesn't matter as far as this problem is concerned. I just wash the mower once a year. I use Castrol Edge synthetic, 10W-30 - best mower oil I've come across - except I use 5W-30 in a new rider. I use the 'Hi-Mileage' in the engines over 10 years old. This oil leak is a visual problem only. It will not leak enough in two seasons to show on the stick. Dust sticks to the oil and creates an ugly mess. My only Honda engine at this time is the elusive GSV 190 on a Lawn-Boy 22271 (same as a Toro 22156 but green instead of red - both of these are discontinued) that I bought in 2008. My older mowers were bought in 2004 and 1990 - still in service with no oil consumption/smoke and no engine repairs.

Back to the question of whether the governor shaft is vulnerable to slipping back into the crankcase. That is, if one decides to follow Taryl & Doublewide's advice to insert a seal into the shaft recess in order to stop oil from seeping out. Well, the answer seems to be "no." Something causes it to catch before it goes all the way through. Plus, if it went past that "catch" it would likely hit the side of the case thereby also stopping its travel. I happened across a GCV190 with a busted top half (cylinder) but a good bottom end. When I split the case, I went ahead & tested to see if the shaft could be pushed into the case. Below is a picture if how far it went into the case before it stopped & could go no further. The other picture (blurry) shows the tip of the shaft from the outside. Moreover, the shaft is metal; thus, I was able to pull it back into its proper place with the little magnet shown lying on the shop towel. Otherwise, it was not reachable with pliers.

Opps, forgot the picture.

I know it's an old thread, but I thought that I would share my recent experience too. This past weekend I took my HRS up to the cottage do do the first mow of the year. The soil is very sandy in the front with a quarter in layer of pine needles on top. Some areas I talked, but others I just mowed a couple of times over. When I finished cutting I noticed a very dirty stained area around the governor shaft where it comes out of the block. In the year of owning this mower, and having put at least 30 hours on it, I had never noticed this before.

I know it was very dusty when I was mowing so I guess that the oil could have been there but I only noticed it once I started throwing the dust around and it had somewhere to cling to. I checked the oil in the machine and it is still clean and at the appropriate, Honda Recommended, oil level. I have owned Honda push mowers for a little of a decade with at least 20+ oil changes and fills under my belt so I know the level to be spot on.

The last thing that I did was check the air cleaner. I was not shocked to see it somewhat loaded up with dust and pine needle pieces, but was however surprised to see oil staining on the filter. I pulled the filter and sure enough there was some oil sitting on the bottom edge of the air cleaner housing. I would assume that this came through the breather although I don't know how or why. The mower is never tipped to that side and I have never mowed on any steep inclines.

Later today I will check the breather tube and clean things out. Then slap on a new filter and see how it goes. The oil and debris around the governor shaft cleaned up when I blew everything off with the air hose.

JBtoro said:

Noticed that I have this common leak from where the governor shaft protrudes from the crankcase. Honda machined a recess for a seal but does not include the seal with a new engine. Two videos, Taryl & Doublewide 6, show how to insert the proper seal but warn that you have to be careful not to push too hard on the shaft otherwise it might, emphasize "might," fall into the engine. They warn about the potential but say that they are not certain. Reason I ask is because it would be a whole lot easier to tap the seal into place with the appropriate size socket vs trying to wedge it into place with a screwdriver or punch while holding the shaft (to keep it from sliding) with pliers (see below). Anyone ever actually lost the shaft into the engine? Or is the shaft in fact otherwise secured so that this mishap can't occur.

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I picked up a Yardman mower with a Honda 160 engine. After cleaning the carburetor and running the mower. It was time to see why there was a good deal of oil on and around the deck and engine.
I cleaned the oily mess up and cut some grass and to my surprise I didn’t see any oil leaks anywhere on the entire engine and deck. I put the mower away and intended to sell soon.
I never got around to posting it but I had a potential buyer, my neighbor. I brought it to him and it ended up sitting in his garage for a few weeks. Anyway it didn’t work out with him. Soon after I had a woman ask if I had a good mower. Yes I said, but when I was getting ready to bring it to her, I noticed an oil streak below the governor shaft area. This motor had not been running since I last cut grass 3-4 weeks ago. But from what was on the mower when I got it and seeing the amount from statically sitting. I researched and found out about the seal that can minimize the oil weeping. I was going to make some decent cash on this mower and I didn’t want to give this lady any reason to question her buying it.
Ordered the seal. Received the seal. Unfortunately, I lost the shaft while trying to seat the seal.
I have been trying all manners of ways to retrieve the shaft with no luck. Of course magnets are part of my approach. Later today I intend to try various hemostats or roach clips. I am also trying to find my slender magnet I have.
If all else fails, you know what’s next. I do not have very much experience with engines internally. And absolutely none with Honda engines.
Can anyone advise me on the easiest approach to opening this case? Remember I literally have no idea of what I may encounter during splittin the case. Does the engine need to be removed from the mower? How about the flywheel? Do I need any gaskets or things to watch out for?
I appreciate everyone’s time in helping me out. I know it takes time to just post a reply.
And by the way. I don’t recommend installing this seal if you don’t have to. I should have just sent a few links that describe the known leak of Honda engines to the woman. I then would have suggested to her to wipe up the oil before mowing. I’m bummed out!

Good playlist of videos