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Fuel and starter solenoid no click. No hour meter.
#1
C
CrankCase99
C
CrankCase99
Craftsman model # 917.20390 42" 22HP
Battery volts: Not running 12.6v
Hour meter not displaying.
2 wire connection that goes to hour meter reads 5v. Can hook 12v directly to hour meter and works as normal, 560 hrs. 20amp fuse not blown.
No click on starter solenoid when turning key to start. No click from fuel solenoid when turning key to start position.
Can use jumper cables straight from mower battery negative to frame and positive straight to start. Mower starts and runs just fine. Mower keeps running after turning key to off position. Had to ground out coils with jumper wire to get engine to stop.
Replaced starter solenoid making sure to connect wires as they were on old solenoid exact same results as before.
Tried known good switch same results.
Any help would be appreciated. If you need more info tell me and I will reply.
TY
Battery volts: Not running 12.6v
Hour meter not displaying.
2 wire connection that goes to hour meter reads 5v. Can hook 12v directly to hour meter and works as normal, 560 hrs. 20amp fuse not blown.
No click on starter solenoid when turning key to start. No click from fuel solenoid when turning key to start position.
Can use jumper cables straight from mower battery negative to frame and positive straight to start. Mower starts and runs just fine. Mower keeps running after turning key to off position. Had to ground out coils with jumper wire to get engine to stop.
Replaced starter solenoid making sure to connect wires as they were on old solenoid exact same results as before.
Tried known good switch same results.
Any help would be appreciated. If you need more info tell me and I will reply.
TY
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Here is the troubleshooting procedure I use for these problems.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
#3
C
CrankCase99
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Answer:
Fuse is good, not blown.
Battery connection to posts are clean.
Battery voltage 12.6v
Chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Answer:
From the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid I get 12.6v.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Answer:
Have 4 wire solenoid.
Both small connectors read 12.55v with key to start position.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch.
Answer:
One large connector from battery+ reads 12.55v continuous and the same with key in start position.
The other large connector that runs to the starter reads 0v in any key position including start.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Answer: 0v to starter when key in start position.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
Answer:
Checked chassis ground back to battery reads 12.55v.
Addition: I stated in 1st post that no solenoid click with key. I placed hand on it while trying to start today and felt it.
So, solenoid does function but still have no crank issue.
C
CrankCase99
Thanks for replying Rivets.Here is the troubleshooting procedure I use for these problems.
Electrical problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. How well you understand basic electricity.
2. What tools you have and know how to use.
3. How well you follow directions.
4. You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.
Remember we cannot see what you are doing. You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. Now let's solve this problem.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch).
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.
Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.
First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good. Check and make sure the chassis ground is clean and tight.
Answer:
Fuse is good, not blown.
Battery connection to posts are clean.
Battery voltage 12.6v
Chassis ground is clean and tight.
Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.
Answer:
From the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid I get 12.6v.
Third, check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.
Answer:
Have 4 wire solenoid.
Both small connectors read 12.55v with key to start position.
Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch.
Answer:
One large connector from battery+ reads 12.55v continuous and the same with key in start position.
The other large connector that runs to the starter reads 0v in any key position including start.
Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again).
Answer: 0v to starter when key in start position.
Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.
Answer:
Checked chassis ground back to battery reads 12.55v.
Addition: I stated in 1st post that no solenoid click with key. I placed hand on it while trying to start today and felt it.
So, solenoid does function but still have no crank issue.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If you have 12+ VDC at both small terminals on the solenoid with the key in the start position, but 0 VDC on the second large terminal, I would be replacing the solenoid.
#5
C
CrankCase99
C
CrankCase99
I gotcha Rivets. I think I may have mentioned replacing starter solenoid in original post but if I failed too I'll state that now. We were working with a new solenoid. I understand all seems to be correct with solenoid as far as I know. I can't explain why no click and no feed from 2nd post to starter.
The issue exists with old and new solenoid.
Maybe you could explain how to bench test the solenoid so I can make sure didn't get a bad new solenoid.
The issue exists with old and new solenoid.
Maybe you could explain how to bench test the solenoid so I can make sure didn't get a bad new solenoid.
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Simple test, depending on whether you have a 3 or 4 post solenoid. On a 4 post solenoid connect 12VDC across the two small terminals. Positive on one negative on the other. You should hear the solenoid click if it is good. On a 3 post solenoid connect the positive lead on the small post and negative lead to the solenoid case. Again you should hear a click if the solenoid is good. If you have a 3 post solenoid which tests good your problem is probably a bad or dirty connection between the case and units frame.
#7
StarTech
StarTech
If you are measuring each of the small terminals of the starter solenoid in reference to frame ground and getting 12v on each one then you have a grounding issue. One terminal is grounded and the other is switched 12 VDC.
#8
C
CrankCase99
New solenoid still connected. Can touch - from battery to a small connector on solenoid and other from + from battery and engine turns turns over.
So, I am guessing a safety somewhere. Any thoughts or further testing would be appreciated.
C
CrankCase99
Tested old and new solenoid. Both click and show continuity when energizing straight from battery with jumpers.Simple test, depending on whether you have a 3 or 4 post solenoid. On a 4 post solenoid connect 12VDC across the two small terminals. Positive on one negative on the other. You should hear the solenoid click if it is good. On a 3 post solenoid connect the positive lead on the small post and negative lead to the solenoid case. Again you should hear a click if the solenoid is good. If you have a 3 post solenoid which tests good your problem is probably a bad or dirty connection between the case and units frame.
New solenoid still connected. Can touch - from battery to a small connector on solenoid and other from + from battery and engine turns turns over.
So, I am guessing a safety somewhere. Any thoughts or further testing would be appreciated.
#9
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
You stated in post #3 you have 12VDC at both small terminals on the solenoid when the key is in the start position. Now you stated you don’t, which one is it?
#10
C
CrankCase99
Yesterday when issue 1st appeared I didn't see the cause. Today I saw what I thought was a 2nd issue but turned out to be the primary issue. Way before the no crank issue of yesterday appeared I had unplugged my right headlight which I don't need since I don't mow at night and the other light didn't work. From that time forward my wiring loom for that headlight which ran down the frame rail right below exhaust pipe. Today I saw frayed wires that powered that headlight. Not realizing that 2 ground wires were combined in a single pin on that connector which in turn completed the loop for ground. I proceeded to cut the bad wiring out of that loom. Problem: I didn't attach those wires together with wire nut to complete the circuit. Needless to say tieing those wires together cured all issues.
Hour meter works.
Mower starts with key.
Lesson: Better visual inspection and don't ever assume anything.
Always test.
Thanks
C
CrankCase99
Issue fixed, admission of self sabotage follows. I want those who wish to learn from my nubby mistake. After all sometimes it takes mistakes to learn. My apologies to my advisers for chasing flawed data presented by me.You stated in post #3 you have 12VDC at both small terminals on the solenoid when the key is in the start position. Now you stated you don’t, which one is it?
Yesterday when issue 1st appeared I didn't see the cause. Today I saw what I thought was a 2nd issue but turned out to be the primary issue. Way before the no crank issue of yesterday appeared I had unplugged my right headlight which I don't need since I don't mow at night and the other light didn't work. From that time forward my wiring loom for that headlight which ran down the frame rail right below exhaust pipe. Today I saw frayed wires that powered that headlight. Not realizing that 2 ground wires were combined in a single pin on that connector which in turn completed the loop for ground. I proceeded to cut the bad wiring out of that loom. Problem: I didn't attach those wires together with wire nut to complete the circuit. Needless to say tieing those wires together cured all issues.
Hour meter works.
Mower starts with key.
Lesson: Better visual inspection and don't ever assume anything.
Always test.
Thanks
#11
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
First off, don’t go beating yourself up for not seeing the problem earlier. Anyone of us who has not done the same thing is lying to you. Glad to hear you’re back in business and we will accept a month of lawn service for our meaningless help.
#12
C
CrankCase99
Thanks Rivets
C
CrankCase99
Not beating myself up just stating fact for those like me who are learning 1 day at a time.First off, don’t go beating yourself up for not seeing the problem earlier. Anyone of us who has not done the same thing is lying to you. Glad to hear you’re back in business and we will accept a month of lawn service for our meaningless help.
Thanks Rivets
#13
StarTech
StarTech
I was leaning toward you simply leaving a ground off when you replace the starter solenoid. I was trying not to interfere too much but I was seeing a missing ground from the diagnostics given. I had one several years ago where the grounding terminal was corroded inside the crimp area causing very similar issues where the wiring harness wasn't grounded.
#14
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
Off topic but on my JD X320 there is a 10 or more wire connector close to the switch. When it cranks but does not start I have found that corrosion (not readily visible) inside the connector at pins which prevents the fuel solenoid from operating.
If you cannot hear or feel it click when you switch to ON this may be your problem. I cleaned the pins and applied a very light film of dielectric grease. Sprayed with ZAP battery tender first. Good Stuff.
If you cannot hear or feel it click when you switch to ON this may be your problem. I cleaned the pins and applied a very light film of dielectric grease. Sprayed with ZAP battery tender first. Good Stuff.
#15
J
Joe657
J
Joe657
You most likely have a high resistance (corroded connection) between the battery terminal and your starter solenoid, also affecting the lead to the hour meter, therefore low voltage readings. You will need to check the entire path (wires) between the battery and low voltage devices. Check for obvious corrosion like powdery substance in and around connections, loose or bad connections and crimps. I assume that you have access to a volt meter. If not, get one. You can use a sharp pointed probe to pass through the wire insulation and check wire voltage midway between connections. Rule of thumb: start checking wire voltage at about the half way point between source (battery) and the non-working device (starter, hour meter), and keep halving the wire run until you get the source of the problem. I hope this helps you out, not only here but also in the future. Best wishes.Craftsman model # 917.20390 42" 22HP
Battery volts: Not running 12.6v
Hour meter not displaying.
2 wire connection that goes to hour meter reads 5v. Can hook 12v directly to hour meter and works as normal, 560 hrs. 20amp fuse not blown.
No click on starter solenoid when turning key to start. No click from fuel solenoid when turning key to start position.
Can use jumper cables straight from mower battery negative to frame and positive straight to start. Mower starts and runs just fine. Mower keeps running after turning key to off position. Had to ground out coils with jumper wire to get engine to stop.
Replaced starter solenoid making sure to connect wires as they were on old solenoid exact same results as before.
Tried known good switch same results.
Any help would be appreciated. If you need more info tell me and I will reply.
TY
#16
StarTech
StarTech
If you had fully read the thread you would have seen that the OP solved the problem in post #10 Which was a self induced grounding issue.You most likely have a high resistance (corroded connection) between the battery terminal and your starter solenoid, also affecting the lead to the hour meter, therefore low voltage readings. You will need to check the entire path (wires) between the battery and low voltage devices. Check for obvious corrosion like powdery substance in and around connections, loose or bad connections and crimps. I assume that you have access to a volt meter. If not, get one. You can use a sharp pointed probe to pass through the wire insulation and check wire voltage midway between connections. Rule of thumb: start checking wire voltage at about the half way point between source (battery) and the non-working device (starter, hour meter), and keep halving the wire run until you get the source of the problem. I hope this helps you out, not only here but also in the future. Best wishes.