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Dixie Chopper Starting/Eletrical woes
#1
D
dopey
D
dopey
Hi,
I appreciate any help with this. I'm in town for the week visiting my mother and thought i'd fix her Dixie Chopper while here. I thought I had a decent understanding of small engines, but I think i've stumbled upon an interesting short so any help finding the culprit welcome!
The mower is an XWL2300 'Millennium Edition' with a Kohler engine.
The mower started blowing a fuse on a black wire coming off the hot side of the starter. Initially seldom, then more frequent to the point she couldn't use the mower. (She had just been feeding it fuses).
Additionally the starter had been engaging the moment you turn the key on, and therefore stayed engaged even after the mower had started. This ruined the starter about the time I arrived.
After replacing the starter the behaviour continued. The moment you turn the key 'on' the starter engaged. The mower will start, but starter stays engaged.
I've tried replacing the key switch, no change. I also checked continuity of the original ignition switch which tested 'good'. The switch is *not* the cause for the starter wire being sent power.
To sum up; The starter engages the moment the key is turned on. The switch has been tested good, and i've confirmed with a voltmeter that the starter wire is indeed getting +12 volts when the key is turned on. If you do let the mower run it will eventually blow a 20amp fuse on a black wire coming off the starter, causing the entire mower to die, and not even attempt to restart until replaced. Any idea where the likely short is that would cause this?
To add; Yesterday after replacing the switch only to have it behave the same I cleaned the original switch and reconnected it. While holding the key switch I started the mower. Within a few seconds I was getting jolted as if I had my finger on a plugwire. Perhaps stupidity on my part for holding the ignition switch housing, but should that level of electricity be coming back to the key switch? The only theory I have now is perhaps a bad voltage regulator causing that, which if it was sending unregulated voltage back up the wiring harness could perhaps explain the blowing of fuses.. But would it explain the starter behaviour? Or am I completely off base with how the voltage regulator is wired.
Any advice welcomed, any additional info happy to provide.
I appreciate any help with this. I'm in town for the week visiting my mother and thought i'd fix her Dixie Chopper while here. I thought I had a decent understanding of small engines, but I think i've stumbled upon an interesting short so any help finding the culprit welcome!
The mower is an XWL2300 'Millennium Edition' with a Kohler engine.
The mower started blowing a fuse on a black wire coming off the hot side of the starter. Initially seldom, then more frequent to the point she couldn't use the mower. (She had just been feeding it fuses).
Additionally the starter had been engaging the moment you turn the key on, and therefore stayed engaged even after the mower had started. This ruined the starter about the time I arrived.
After replacing the starter the behaviour continued. The moment you turn the key 'on' the starter engaged. The mower will start, but starter stays engaged.
I've tried replacing the key switch, no change. I also checked continuity of the original ignition switch which tested 'good'. The switch is *not* the cause for the starter wire being sent power.
To sum up; The starter engages the moment the key is turned on. The switch has been tested good, and i've confirmed with a voltmeter that the starter wire is indeed getting +12 volts when the key is turned on. If you do let the mower run it will eventually blow a 20amp fuse on a black wire coming off the starter, causing the entire mower to die, and not even attempt to restart until replaced. Any idea where the likely short is that would cause this?
To add; Yesterday after replacing the switch only to have it behave the same I cleaned the original switch and reconnected it. While holding the key switch I started the mower. Within a few seconds I was getting jolted as if I had my finger on a plugwire. Perhaps stupidity on my part for holding the ignition switch housing, but should that level of electricity be coming back to the key switch? The only theory I have now is perhaps a bad voltage regulator causing that, which if it was sending unregulated voltage back up the wiring harness could perhaps explain the blowing of fuses.. But would it explain the starter behaviour? Or am I completely off base with how the voltage regulator is wired.
Any advice welcomed, any additional info happy to provide.
#2
S
shiftsuper175607
Follow the length of all wires and look for something that is pinched or worn bare.
S
shiftsuper175607
Hi,
I appreciate any help with this. I'm in town for the week visiting my mother and thought i'd fix her Dixie Chopper while here. I thought I had a decent understanding of small engines, but I think i've stumbled upon an interesting short so any help finding the culprit welcome!
The mower is an XWL2300 'Millennium Edition' with a Kohler engine.
The mower started blowing a fuse on a black wire coming off the hot side of the starter. Initially seldom, then more frequent to the point she couldn't use the mower. (She had just been feeding it fuses).
Additionally the starter had been engaging the moment you turn the key on, and therefore stayed engaged even after the mower had started. This ruined the starter about the time I arrived.
After replacing the starter the behaviour continued. The moment you turn the key 'on' the starter engaged. The mower will start, but starter stays engaged.
I've tried replacing the key switch, no change. I also checked continuity of the original ignition switch which tested 'good'. The switch is *not* the cause for the starter wire being sent power.
To sum up; The starter engages the moment the key is turned on. The switch has been tested good, and i've confirmed with a voltmeter that the starter wire is indeed getting +12 volts when the key is turned on. If you do let the mower run it will eventually blow a 20amp fuse on a black wire coming off the starter, causing the entire mower to die, and not even attempt to restart until replaced. Any idea where the likely short is that would cause this?
To add; Yesterday after replacing the switch only to have it behave the same I cleaned the original switch and reconnected it. While holding the key switch I started the mower. Within a few seconds I was getting jolted as if I had my finger on a plugwire. Perhaps stupidity on my part for holding the ignition switch housing, but should that level of electricity be coming back to the key switch? The only theory I have now is perhaps a bad voltage regulator causing that, which if it was sending unregulated voltage back up the wiring harness could perhaps explain the blowing of fuses.. But would it explain the starter behaviour? Or am I completely off base with how the voltage regulator is wired.
Any advice welcomed, any additional info happy to provide.
Follow the length of all wires and look for something that is pinched or worn bare.
#3
D
dopey
I was afraid that's the next step.
The entire mower is embarrassingly filthy. If I am going to trace cables I think it's time to give it a top down detail.
Really dumb question is it safe to take a water hose in the hydraulic area, or what is the best way? The entire thing is caked with grass, grease, dirt, it's just horrid.
Sadly I think this mower has gotten the least care since it's the most foreign ever owned in this home compared to a regular murray riding mower, etc. They've been afraid to wash it down, which means it hasn't been kept clean at all.
D
dopey
Follow the length of all wires and look for something that is pinched or worn bare.
I was afraid that's the next step.
The entire mower is embarrassingly filthy. If I am going to trace cables I think it's time to give it a top down detail.
Really dumb question is it safe to take a water hose in the hydraulic area, or what is the best way? The entire thing is caked with grass, grease, dirt, it's just horrid.
Sadly I think this mower has gotten the least care since it's the most foreign ever owned in this home compared to a regular murray riding mower, etc. They've been afraid to wash it down, which means it hasn't been kept clean at all.
#4
T
tbarnett
Have you checked the starter solenoid?
T
tbarnett
I was afraid that's the next step.
The entire mower is embarrassingly filthy. If I am going to trace cables I think it's time to give it a top down detail.
Really dumb question is it safe to take a water hose in the hydraulic area, or what is the best way? The entire thing is caked with grass, grease, dirt, it's just horrid.
Sadly I think this mower has gotten the least care since it's the most foreign ever owned in this home compared to a regular murray riding mower, etc. They've been afraid to wash it down, which means it hasn't been kept clean at all.
Have you checked the starter solenoid?
#5
D
dopey
Yes. Even with a new starter, confirmed if i remove the solenoid wire the mower does not attempt to start.
Taking a volt meter to the solenoid wire can confirm 12v going to the wire with the key in the 'on' position.
D
dopey
Have you checked the starter solenoid?
Yes. Even with a new starter, confirmed if i remove the solenoid wire the mower does not attempt to start.
Taking a volt meter to the solenoid wire can confirm 12v going to the wire with the key in the 'on' position.
#6
D
dopey
D
dopey
I've started fault tracing.
Using a meter to check for continuity i've observed the following.
I have continuity between a Red wire going into L(Lights? Though no lights on the mower) and the blue wire to the solenoid.
What is currently puzzling me the most is I have continuity between the solenoid wire and the negative battery post. This is surely wrong(horribly wrong) right? What I don't understand is how we didn't have sparks/fuses instantly blowing, etc if there is truly a short such as this going on.
Here is some pics:
The key switch plug:
https://goo.gl/photos/wCJL1CudHbD4YMmp6
Starter area:
https://goo.gl/photos/9sA84Q4Lf8qoigXD7
The red wire bundled up splices into a wiring tube which has a switch by the seat(toggle) which seems to terminate to the picture below. It also has a red wire with a fuse that appears to be grounded. I am thinking this is not stock wiring, any ideas? My mother didn't even know the switch existed, so no idea what it does.
The blue wire with the tester connected to it is the solenoid wire. The black wire with a fuse holder is the one that started to blow. Normally the black wire is connected to the hot side of the starter along with the main battery cable. The blue one is connected to the solenoid.
Odd switch/wire harness goes to this. Not sure what the switch would do, any ideas?
https://goo.gl/photos/wNZCPjzCEGt22jx1A
Going to continue to trace but can someone confirm i'm not crazy that the fact I have continuity between the negative battery post and the solenoid wire(blue) is very wrong. i.e. it should not have continuity.
Using a meter to check for continuity i've observed the following.
I have continuity between a Red wire going into L(Lights? Though no lights on the mower) and the blue wire to the solenoid.
What is currently puzzling me the most is I have continuity between the solenoid wire and the negative battery post. This is surely wrong(horribly wrong) right? What I don't understand is how we didn't have sparks/fuses instantly blowing, etc if there is truly a short such as this going on.
Here is some pics:
The key switch plug:
https://goo.gl/photos/wCJL1CudHbD4YMmp6
Starter area:
https://goo.gl/photos/9sA84Q4Lf8qoigXD7
The red wire bundled up splices into a wiring tube which has a switch by the seat(toggle) which seems to terminate to the picture below. It also has a red wire with a fuse that appears to be grounded. I am thinking this is not stock wiring, any ideas? My mother didn't even know the switch existed, so no idea what it does.
The blue wire with the tester connected to it is the solenoid wire. The black wire with a fuse holder is the one that started to blow. Normally the black wire is connected to the hot side of the starter along with the main battery cable. The blue one is connected to the solenoid.
Odd switch/wire harness goes to this. Not sure what the switch would do, any ideas?
https://goo.gl/photos/wNZCPjzCEGt22jx1A
Going to continue to trace but can someone confirm i'm not crazy that the fact I have continuity between the negative battery post and the solenoid wire(blue) is very wrong. i.e. it should not have continuity.
#7
D
dopey
D
dopey
Found the short.
https://goo.gl/photos/kLpLqxwWLF2AKWii6
Now to just find the harness, and/or repair the existing one.
https://goo.gl/photos/kLpLqxwWLF2AKWii6
Now to just find the harness, and/or repair the existing one.
#8
D
dopey
D
dopey
I am a bit baffled by this wiring.
https://goo.gl/photos/ke8B5rxZ7pcNKtrx6
This was under the wrapping. This is a tee off a red wire going to some type of sensor.
Going into the plug I took a photo of earlier this spliced wire goes into both the terminal which becomes 'L' on the switch and also goes along side the blue wire which terminates as S(Starter solenoid) on the ignition switch.
This seems bizarre since L will be sent electricity the moment the key is turned 'on'. The only explanation I have is the little black transistor(?) or whatever it's called that is burned up on one wire but not the other is to prevent electricity from flowing one direction. With the intention be for this sensor to receive power both during key switch 'on' and also when the starter solenoid is sent electricity.
Can anyone confirm this? Otherwise I am officially confused and do not understand how this thing was ever wired to begin with, and will concede and take it to a dealer.
https://goo.gl/photos/ke8B5rxZ7pcNKtrx6
This was under the wrapping. This is a tee off a red wire going to some type of sensor.
Going into the plug I took a photo of earlier this spliced wire goes into both the terminal which becomes 'L' on the switch and also goes along side the blue wire which terminates as S(Starter solenoid) on the ignition switch.
This seems bizarre since L will be sent electricity the moment the key is turned 'on'. The only explanation I have is the little black transistor(?) or whatever it's called that is burned up on one wire but not the other is to prevent electricity from flowing one direction. With the intention be for this sensor to receive power both during key switch 'on' and also when the starter solenoid is sent electricity.
Can anyone confirm this? Otherwise I am officially confused and do not understand how this thing was ever wired to begin with, and will concede and take it to a dealer.
#9
D
dopey
D
dopey
If for no other reason incase others find this thread when working on their dixie chopper, keeping up to date with progress.
Those are two diodes. They spit off the fuel solenoid, and are indeed to ensure power to it while in both 'on' and 'starting' position on the key.
It melting/touching frame explains the fuses being blown, and continuity I saw between starter solenoid and ground. It also explains the starter staying engaged with the key in an 'on' position since with a faulty diode electricity was flowing back to the starter when in the 'on' position.
I am going to solder in a new diode, and rewrap the wires. I hope this will result in testing coming back as expected, and subsequently the mower starting/functioning as expected.
Those are two diodes. They spit off the fuel solenoid, and are indeed to ensure power to it while in both 'on' and 'starting' position on the key.
It melting/touching frame explains the fuses being blown, and continuity I saw between starter solenoid and ground. It also explains the starter staying engaged with the key in an 'on' position since with a faulty diode electricity was flowing back to the starter when in the 'on' position.
I am going to solder in a new diode, and rewrap the wires. I hope this will result in testing coming back as expected, and subsequently the mower starting/functioning as expected.
#11
D
dopey
I've not found one. If anyone has any i'd appreciate it. The mower says 'XWL 2300 Quad Loop' on the front, and also 'Millennium edition XX of 100' . Makes us think it was a special run of mowers. Unfortunately, the manual section of dixie chopper doesn't list it, nor can I ever find a 'XWL' model mower, anywhere.
The closest to a diagram I found was just for Kohler model Dixie Choppers, but even then it didn't go into this detail. Just the switch level.
We've soldered a new diode inline, shrink wrapped the new connection and rewrapped the bundle. A few restarts and everything is behaving as expected! Time will tell if it solves it, but for now seems to be good.
Not rocket science to trace cables if you have a fault; but incase any other unfortunate soul stumbles on this. It's worth knowing there is a pair of diodes coming off the fuel solenoid which tie into the L and S side of the switch. The symptoms I initially had were 100% in line with a faulty switch, but to know these diodes existed within the engine harness offers another entirely plausible cause for the behaviour we had.
D
dopey
Looks like you're getting there. Is there no schematic available?
I've not found one. If anyone has any i'd appreciate it. The mower says 'XWL 2300 Quad Loop' on the front, and also 'Millennium edition XX of 100' . Makes us think it was a special run of mowers. Unfortunately, the manual section of dixie chopper doesn't list it, nor can I ever find a 'XWL' model mower, anywhere.
The closest to a diagram I found was just for Kohler model Dixie Choppers, but even then it didn't go into this detail. Just the switch level.
We've soldered a new diode inline, shrink wrapped the new connection and rewrapped the bundle. A few restarts and everything is behaving as expected! Time will tell if it solves it, but for now seems to be good.
Not rocket science to trace cables if you have a fault; but incase any other unfortunate soul stumbles on this. It's worth knowing there is a pair of diodes coming off the fuel solenoid which tie into the L and S side of the switch. The symptoms I initially had were 100% in line with a faulty switch, but to know these diodes existed within the engine harness offers another entirely plausible cause for the behaviour we had.
#12
L
logan01
L
logan01
Glad you have it going. L/S on the key switch likely stand for starter/solenoid and lights. Even though you have no lights it probably came partially prewired for them. Does anything else get its "hot" from the L terminal?