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Did I total my mower?

#1

A

Amateurhour

I have a 2006 195cc 6.5 HP Toro (LEV120 - 361541B) self propelled stand behind mower that I purchased from the original owner who ran it using 2 cycle tru-fuel (which I continue to use per his recommendation).

I'm a first time mower owner and I have been running it for a year and a half with no maintenance other than topping off the oil. The neighbor borrowed the mower and when they returned it it would still start but not stay on. That's when I began googling and realized that I should have been changing filter etc. So I bought a maintenance package off of Amazon that includes my model and specification number (Amazon product title: Hayskill 640350 Carburetor Replace for Tecumseh 640350 640303 640271 for Toro Recycler 640271 640303 LV195EA LEV100 LEV105 LEV120 20016 20017 20018 6.75 HP).

I cleaned up the mower and motor, changed out the oil, replaced the carborator and hoses, replaced fuel filter and spark plugs, removed and sharpened blade. Put it all back together as it appeared before. When I started it up it made a very loud clanking noise (no normal mower noises) for a second or two then turned off. Now if I try to start it it feels like its trying to pull the cord out of my hand at times and doesn't attempt to start up. Waited 30 mins and tried again.

Tried putting old spark plug back in and start it up. No change.

I Had noticed before installing the carb that the choke plate wasnt closed entirely like the original carb when at rest. Instead of unscrewing the screw that controls that, I determined how many turns would close the plate, then set it back to where it was incase it was supposed to be that way. Tried releasing the screw after starting it the first time, also made no difference.

I tried to figure out where I went wrong but everything about my install and maintenance looks right and nothing on the mower that I can see looks broke. where did I go wrong? What can I do to find out what went wrong?


#2

R

Rivets

Here are two manuals which will help you understand how the carb works. Maybe they will help you.

http://www.tecumsehcarburetorguide.com/how-to-guide/


#3

B

Born2Mow

It could be something as simple as your neighbor hit an obstacle in his yard, and didn't think it was "important". (Nothing is "important" when you don't need to personally maintain the equipment. Hint, hint.)

Unplug the spark plug. Turn the mower onto it's side and make sure the idiot neighbor didn't bend the baffles, blade or deck so that the blade strikes a bit of metal on every revolution. You'll need to manually spin the blade very slowly to check.
  • The blade should miss the everything under the deck at EVERY point by at least 3/8 inch (10mm).
  • The blade should also spin flat and true. Measure the height of the cutting edge from the floor; both tips should be equal.
  • The tips of the blade may have a little "wing" to lift the clippings. Both wings should be equal in size and shape.
  • The cutting edges don't need to be "razor sharp", but neither should either tip have dings and gouges larger than 5/32 inch (4mm).
  • Blades are typically replaced every 2-5 years anyway.
If you find such a problem, then you'll need to buy a new blade. Take you about 15 min to fit. (Again with the spark plug disconnected.) Typically one-bolt installation.

If you find such a problem, then ask to borrow your neighbor's car and back it into a fire hydrant. No need to report it. It's not important. :cool:


#4

cpurvis

cpurvis

Now if I try to start it it feels like its trying to pull the cord out of my hand at times and doesn't attempt to start up.
Click to expand...
That sounds to me like your neighbor hit something that stopped the engine suddenly. It may have sheared or partially sheared the Woodruff key which locates the flywheel on the crankshaft, thus establishing the timing of the ignition.


#5

A

Amateurhour

Rivets: thank you for the reading material. I checked the numbers on the carborators and checked the screws and components of the new carborator and everything seems to be in order. The spark plug was a bit wet when I removed it, but I'm sure some adjusting could fix that if I could get the motor running.

Born2mow: I checked and the blade runs freely. It had some dings in it when I was sharpening but nothing major. It is a bit tough to rotate, but I'm not sure that its not normally like that.

cpurvis: It doesn't have a key, instead it has a "starter cup" and recoil pull starter. I did remove the starter cup during maintenance just to check it out. Perhaps I reinstalled it wrong?



(starter cup: https://www.google.com/search?q=sta...oECAIQAg&biw=412&bih=693#imgrc=Cj4eDI0QTDHUEM)

(recoil pull starter: https://www.google.com/search?q=sta...oECAIQAg&biw=412&bih=693#imgrc=77idP4iCNIDPhM)


#6

cpurvis

cpurvis

This is a Woodruff "key". It's what "times" the flywheel to the crankshaft. It's made of relatively soft steel and does not like for the engine to stop suddenly.
1623590342703.png

The crankshaft has magnets built in to its outer rim. When the engine rotates, the magnets pass by a coil. This generates voltage which is what fires the spark plug when the piston has reached a specific spot near the end of its movement toward the combustion chamber. This key can get damaged, say, from the sudden stop of the blade by hitting an obstacle. The flywheel's angular momentum tries to keep it spinning and the only thing trying to stop it is the Woodruff key and the Woodruff key generally loses, allowing the alignment of the crankshaft and flywheel to get out of whack and that messes up the ignition timing. Depending on how far off the ignition timing gets, the engine either runs poorly or won't run at all.

The flywheel has to come off for you to see it.


#7

A

Amateurhour

cpurvis said:
This is a Woodruff "key". It's what "times" the flywheel to the crankshaft. It's made of relatively soft steel and does not like for the engine to stop suddenly.
View attachment 56978

The crankshaft has magnets built in to its outer rim. When the engine rotates, the magnets pass by a coil. This generates voltage which is what fires the spark plug when the piston has reached a specific spot near the end of its movement toward the combustion chamber. This key can get damaged, say, from the sudden stop of the blade by hitting an obstacle. The flywheel's angular momentum tries to keep it spinning and the only thing trying to stop it is the Woodruff key and the Woodruff key generally loses, allowing the alignment of the crankshaft and flywheel to get out of whack and that messes up the ignition timing. Depending on how far off the ignition timing gets, the engine either runs poorly or won't run at all.

The flywheel has to come off for you to see it.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. Looks like I'll be attempting to remove the flywheel next. I'll report back when I've had a look


#8

A

Amateurhour

It's completely sheered off.. I have a feeling the clanking noise that I was hearing was said chunk of metal flying around while the flywheel attempted to spin without it. Just need to find the part and figure out how to replace it and maybe we'll be up and running!

I was a day away from buying an electric and putting the toro away for a pet project when I have time. But thanks to you, maybe this will save it.


#9

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

here;s what the tecumseh key looks like https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/tecumseh/611004
1623598426413.png


#10

cpurvis

cpurvis

It sounds like it really took a hit.

You may need to have a mechanic look it over to see if any internal parts such as crankshaft or connecting rod got damaged.


#11

M

mrfixitman

Amateurhour said:
I have a 2006 195cc 6.5 HP Toro (LEV120 - 361541B) self propelled stand behind mower that I purchased from the original owner who ran it using 2 cycle tru-fuel (which I continue to use per his recommendation).

I'm a first time mower owner and I have been running it for a year and a half with no maintenance other than topping off the oil. The neighbor borrowed the mower and when they returned it it would still start but not stay on. That's when I began googling and realized that I should have been changing filter etc. So I bought a maintenance package off of Amazon that includes my model and specification number (Amazon product title: Hayskill 640350 Carburetor Replace for Tecumseh 640350 640303 640271 for Toro Recycler 640271 640303 LV195EA LEV100 LEV105 LEV120 20016 20017 20018 6.75 HP).

I cleaned up the mower and motor, changed out the oil, replaced the carborator and hoses, replaced fuel filter and spark plugs, removed and sharpened blade. Put it all back together as it appeared before. When I started it up it made a very loud clanking noise (no normal mower noises) for a second or two then turned off. Now if I try to start it it feels like its trying to pull the cord out of my hand at times and doesn't attempt to start up. Waited 30 mins and tried again.

Tried putting old spark plug back in and start it up. No change.

I Had noticed before installing the carb that the choke plate wasnt closed entirely like the original carb when at rest. Instead of unscrewing the screw that controls that, I determined how many turns would close the plate, then set it back to where it was incase it was supposed to be that way. Tried releasing the screw after starting it the first time, also made no difference.

I tried to figure out where I went wrong but everything about my install and maintenance looks right and nothing on the mower that I can see looks broke. where did I go wrong? What can I do to find out what went wrong?
Click to expand...


#12

M

mrfixitman

Pull the flywheel off, sounds like the flywheel key is bad or slopp. When the engine pulls back it’s because the timing is off.


#13

B

Born2Mow

Borrow your neighbor's car to go get the woodruff key.
Then back it into a fire hydrant on the way home.
No need to say anything because it's not important. ?


#14

J

Joed756

I would replace the $0.10 woodruff key and try it out before taking the machine anywhere.


#15

G

Gord Baker

cpurvis said:
That sounds to me like your neighbor hit something that stopped the engine suddenly. It may have sheared or partially sheared the Woodruff key which locates the flywheel on the crankshaft, thus establishing the timing of the ignition.
Click to expand...
Never lend your tools, equipment, vehicles or girlfriend. They will not come back in the same condition as before.
Your engine is destroyed. Likely ran without sufficient oil. Tell your neighbour to buy you a New comparable mower or never speak to him again.


#16

G

Gord Baker

Amateurhour said:
It's completely sheered off.. I have a feeling the clanking noise that I was hearing was said chunk of metal flying around while the flywheel attempted to spin without it. Just need to find the part and figure out how to replace it and maybe we'll be up and running!

I was a day away from buying an electric and putting the toro away for a pet project when I have time. But thanks to you, maybe this will save it.
Click to expand...
You would not hear the KEY clanking as it is too small and captive in its' location. Engine is destroyed. Bent rod likely. Can you see the piston going up and down via the spark plug hole? YOU didn't Total your mower, your Neighbour did. He owes you a replacement in kind.


#17

OCFarmer

OCFarmer

cpurvis said:
That sounds to me like your neighbor hit something that stopped the engine suddenly. It may have sheared or partially sheared the Woodruff key which locates the flywheel on the crankshaft, thus establishing the timing of the ignition.
Click to expand...
After reading your initial post, that was also my first impression: the motor is firing at improper crank angle. I have had this happen on a similar motor.


#18

OCFarmer

OCFarmer

If not the key, the "clanking" could be something in the crankcase. Last time I saw that was when a friend's son was playing around while he left to get oil for an oil change, and the son dropped the 1/4" cast iron oil plug down the oil fill funnel. Friend found the plug missing, and bought a new one. Screwed it in, added oil, and fired up the engine. Boom. Blew a 2" hole in the side of the crankcase.

And then there was the time I loaned my Kubota to a neighbor, and they called me to come get it because it quit running. She let her son run it, and he set the "throttle lock" too low for the load, and spun the spline to a toothpick. She hasn't been cordial to me ever since. Funny how that works....


#19

OCFarmer

OCFarmer

Dang! I've been thinking about this "loan to a neighbor" thing, and it just doesn't work.

Loaned my Volvo sport sedan with a finely-balanced engine to a friend who was in his rookie year SCCA, and told him "no screwing around!" -- he just wanted to ferry somebody to a park entrance to get entrance tickets. He came back in a different car. He innocently described it this way: "The guy was just commenting on how smooth the engine sounded, at around 6 [thousand rpm] grand. Going into a left turn, I said, 'watch this!', and downshifted [that's now 8 grand]. When we came out of the corner, it was making lots of noise." He had spun the crank bearing on #4.

Loaned money to a couple of friends, and said "we'll not talk about this again. Pay it back when you can". Never heard from either one again. Well, at least we didn't talk about MONEY, right?

Folks use seldom-run gas equipment, and don't turn off the gas feed and empty the carburetor reservoir before storing it, guaranteeing a carb cleaning the next time I get it out

And tools STILL keep disappearing from my barn....

(sigh) So it goes. Now I just offer to do it FOR them. I could be upset, but then I think about all the things God has forgiven ME for, and bow my head in gratitude.

I hope you get your engine fixed. May God grant you insight and guide your hands!


#20

A

Amateurhour

Thank you all for your input! I ordered a Tecumseh key and replaced the broken one. While double checking everything, noticed that the nut holding the blade had come loose and got it real tight (might need to loosen and add locktite later). Possible that the blade had been loose enough to rattle (maybe even sheer that key?) Either way, it started up immediately and runs awesome! runs better with the old spark plug than the new one, so I might try another brand on that.

I agree on loaning out items with motors... I let someone test drive my van the other day and I ended up with a seized caliper. Luckily it came loose right away when I lifted the van and rotated the tire. Seems like older cars (and apparently mowers) need a special kind of care that not everyone is familiar with. Sometimes you have to form a bond of sorts, pick up on all of your vehicles preferences etc.

Anyhow, thanks for all the help, couldn't have gotten it done without it!


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