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Cut/mulching quality for dry grass cut weekly: is commercial deck better than resid.?

#1

J

josby

I understand commercial mowers/decks are designed to cut nicely, even when grass is wet or overgrown, but is there a difference for a homeowner who cuts weekly and only when the grass is dry? I typically cut 4-5" growth down to 3". I'm trying to decide between the Hustler Raptor SD 54" ($4000) and the Ferris IS600Z with the 48" iCD deck ($5500).

My property is almost an acre, and using the cool Google Earth area measurement tool at daftlogic.com, it looks like about .55 acre of it is actual grass. So I figure 25 hours a year usage max. Based on that, and my yard being flat, most of the advantages of the Ferris over the Hustler (ZT-3400 hydros vs 2800's, Kawi FS engine vs FR, 10mph vs 7.5mph, ROPS, 4 year warranty vs 3 year) don't seem worth the extra money for my situation.

No real differences in the dealers, either. Both well-established businesses, nice folks, and both are 3 miles from me, practically across the street from each other.

So for me it just comes down to the quality of the cutting, mulching and striping. I plan to get the mulch kit for whichever I buy, and use it always (I always mulch now with my push mower). I also plan to get the Hustler striping kit (the Ferris comes with one). I'd like to save the $1500 difference, but if I end up with stragglers and clumping and such, I'd rather have spent the extra IF it would've gotten me better results.

What's your opinion?


P.S. Borrowing a demo unit would be be ideal, but I don't have a trailer, and would also worry I might damage their mower since I'm new to ZTR.

P.P.S. the Hustler is 650 lbs., while the Ferris is 954 lbs and has narrower tires, front and rear. Should I be worried about ruts?


#2

S

Shughes717

josby said:
I understand commercial mowers/decks are designed to cut nicely, even when grass is wet or overgrown, but is there a difference for a homeowner who cuts weekly and only when the grass is dry? I typically cut 4-5" growth down to 3". I'm trying to decide between the Hustler Raptor SD 54" ($4000) and the Ferris IS600Z with the 48" iCD deck ($5500).

My property is almost an acre, and using the cool Google Earth area measurement tool at daftlogic.com, it looks like about .55 acre of it is actual grass. So I figure 25 hours a year usage max. Based on that, and my yard being flat, most of the advantages of the Ferris over the Hustler (ZT-3400 hydros vs 2800's, Kawi FS engine vs FR, 10mph vs 7.5mph, ROPS, 4 year warranty vs 3 year) don't seem worth the extra money for my situation.

No real differences in the dealers, either. Both well-established businesses, nice folks, and both are 3 miles from me, practically across the street from each other.

So for me it just comes down to the quality of the cutting, mulching and striping. I plan to get the mulch kit for whichever I buy, and use it always (I always mulch now with my push mower). I also plan to get the Hustler striping kit (the Ferris comes with one). I'd like to save the $1500 difference, but if I end up with stragglers and clumping and such, I'd rather have spent the extra IF it would've gotten me better results.

What's your opinion?


P.S. Borrowing a demo unit would be be ideal, but I don't have a trailer, and would also worry I might damage their mower since I'm new to ZTR.

P.P.S. the Hustler is 650 lbs., while the Ferris is 954 lbs and has narrower tires, front and rear. Should I be worried about ruts?
Click to expand...

Either mower would be extreme overkill for your lawn. You wouldn't even get 25 hours a year out of those mowers. Either mower will mow your lawn in 20 minutes easily. Both have a high bts, so either should leave a nice cut. Personally, unless I was looking to mow extra lawns or looking to move to a home with a much larger lawn, I wouldn't spend $5k on a mower for a lawn that small.


#3

Ric

Ric

josby said:
I understand commercial mowers/decks are designed to cut nicely, even when grass is wet or overgrown, but is there a difference for a homeowner who cuts weekly and only when the grass is dry? I typically cut 4-5" growth down to 3". I'm trying to decide between the Hustler Raptor SD 54" ($4000) and the Ferris IS600Z with the 48" iCD deck ($5500).

My property is almost an acre, and using the cool Google Earth area measurement tool at daftlogic.com, it looks like about .55 acre of it is actual grass. So I figure 25 hours a year usage max. Based on that, and my yard being flat, most of the advantages of the Ferris over the Hustler (ZT-3400 hydros vs 2800's, Kawi FS engine vs FR, 10mph vs 7.5mph, ROPS, 4 year warranty vs 3 year) don't seem worth the extra money for my situation.

No real differences in the dealers, either. Both well-established businesses, nice folks, and both are 3 miles from me, practically across the street from each other.

So for me it just comes down to the quality of the cutting, mulching and striping. I plan to get the mulch kit for whichever I buy, and use it always (I always mulch now with my push mower). I also plan to get the Hustler striping kit (the Ferris comes with one). I'd like to save the $1500 difference, but if I end up with stragglers and clumping and such, I'd rather have spent the extra IF it would've gotten me better results.

What's your opinion?


P.S. Borrowing a demo unit would be be ideal, but I don't have a trailer, and would also worry I might damage their mower since I'm new to ZTR.

P.P.S. the Hustler is 650 lbs., while the Ferris is 954 lbs and has narrower tires, front and rear. Should I be worried about ruts?
Click to expand...

Personally I'd go with the Hustler because it's all the machine you'll probably ever need for the job your doing so why spend the extra money. You say you don't want to deal with the possibility of stragglers and clumping and such and I'd rather have spent the extra IF it would've gotten me better results but the fact remains that even spending the extra money there are No guarantees of a better result or that you wont end up with the same results from the more expensive mower. The only thing that you can guarantee is with the added weight of the Ferris is leaving ruts in your lawn faster especially if it has narrower tires, front and rear.


#4

J

josby

Shughes717 said:
Both have a high bts, so either should leave a nice cut.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, I had seen that both units have a BTS over 18,000, whereas some less expensive ones like the standard Hustler Raptor only have 16,000. But I wasn't sure about how much the design of the deck itself would influence the performance. Like, if one would do a better job of creating a vacuum to stand the grass up for cutting than the other.


#5

J

josby

Ric said:
there are No guarantees of a better result or that you wont end up with the same results from the more expensive mower.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, that's really the crux of what I was getting at - whether a more expensive mower will actually cut better than a cheaper one, or just cut faster and be more durable.

I think I may refocus my research down to sub-$4K mowers now, as long as they still have 18,000 FPM BTS.


#6

S

Shughes717

Ric said:
Personally I'd go with the Hustler because it's all the machine you'll probably ever need for the job your doing so why spend the extra money. You say you don't want to deal with the possibility of stragglers and clumping and such and I'd rather have spent the extra IF it would've gotten me better results but the fact remains that even spending the extra money there are No guarantees of a better result or that you wont end up with the same results from the more expensive mower. The only thing that you can guarantee is with the added weight of the Ferris is leaving ruts in your lawn faster especially if it has narrower tires, front and rear.
Click to expand...

My mower has the same tires as the is600 and is a little heavier. I alternate paths each time I mow and I don't have a problem with soil compaction. Any commercial mower will cause soil compaction if you mow in the same path every time. A friend of mine used to live in a nice subdivision. His lawn was mowed by a lawn care company who used exmark mowers. They mowed in the exact same path every time, and you could see deep tire tracks in his lawn. I do agree that the raptor sd is more than enough mower for the op. No need in spending $1500 more for a commercial mower.


#7

J

josby

Shughes717 said:
I alternate paths each time I mow and I don't have a problem with soil compaction.
Click to expand...

Hmm...do you mean you shift over half a mower's width from where you cut last time but go the same direction, or cut at a 90 degree angle to how you cut last time? Here is my yard:

lawn.png

On either side of the house, going left to right instead of up and down would be...well, not impossible, but kind of tedious, particularly on the left side. The strip by the driveway is only about 160" wide and these mowers are 73" - 80" long :smile:


#8

Ric

Ric

josby said:
Hmm...do you mean you shift over half a mower's width from where you cut last time but go the same direction, or cut at a 90 degree angle to how you cut last time? Here is my yard: On either side of the house, going left to right instead of up and down would be...well, not impossible, but kind of tedious, particularly on the left side. The strip by the driveway is only about 160" wide and these mowers are 73" - 80" long :smile:
Click to expand...

You can shift over half a mower's width or cut at a 90 degree angle to how you cut last time, you can use any angle you want.In some cases if your mowing in sub-divisions you don't have any choices and you have to use the same path. If you buy the Hustler you shouldn't have to many problems with ruts in less it gets extremely wet.


#9

7394

7394

It is just good for the grass to mow in different directions each time ya mow. Least that's what I try & do.


#10

J

josby

Cool, I will have to remember that when I get this new mower.

I'm now considering the Toro TimeCutter SS5000, which is only $3000. It has the EZT hydros and stamped deck, but I think those will be fine for my light usage. And the BTS is still 18K. The deck is only 4" deep, opposed to 4.5" on the Hustler and 5" on the Ferris, so I wonder if it's more likely to clump when mulching. Reviews of the mulching kit on Home Depot's site are good, though.


#11

7394

7394

Bought my Toro Timecutter 8/20/14, & no regrets, it cuts beautifully.

I don't know about about the mulching, since I never do it. But it is a Kit, that has baffles & etc.


#12

J

josby

7394 said:
Bought my Toro Timecutter 8/20/14, & no regrets, it cuts beautifully.

I don't know about about the mulching, since I never do it. But it is a Kit, that has baffles & etc.
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Great, thanks, it is always nice to hear first-hand experience. What sort of grass are you cutting? With normal weekly cutting do you ever find yourself having to slow your speed to maintain cut quality? Do you use the wash-out ports, and if so, do you find them effective?


#13

7394

7394

josby said:
Great, thanks, it is always nice to hear first-hand experience. What sort of grass are you cutting? With normal weekly cutting do you ever find yourself having to slow your speed to maintain cut quality? Do you use the wash-out ports, and if so, do you find them effective?
Click to expand...

Cutting Tall Fescue @ 4 inches right now. I do have a couple spots down in back that have crabgrass in them, so yes I do slow down for cutting them, but otherwise no.

Washout ports: I NEVER use them, water being blasted around the spindle bearings underneath is not a good thing imo. Even my Dealer said they don't recommend the use of the wash out ports. Unless you like replacing spindles.

I have set of ramps under my back deck, that I pull out & drive up on to do a quick underside scrape out with a plastic scraper. If your deck slope (front to back) is set to spec, it should stay pretty clean, least mine does.


#14

J

josby

Cool, thanks for the info, and thanks to all for your opinions. I ordered the TimeCutter SS5000, plus mulch kit and hourmeter, from my local dealer yesterday and it should be here next week.

I plan to check/adjust the deck slope for sure, but with the mulch kit, I think I may get more buildup. I think I'm going to try the washout ports. On one hand, that makes sense, but on the other hand, considering the three year/unlimited hour warranty, I can't imagine Toro would put them on there if it meant they were going to be replacing a lot of spindles for free. Either way, I REALLY hate scraping decks, so I think I might rather occasionally replace spindles than scrape the deck regularly - especially considering how easy it looks to remove the deck from the mower.


#15

7394

7394

Cool, & Congrats, Hope you got the Toro End of Year Sale Price. I saved well over $400. last year when I got mine.

FYI: To tell the year, behind the seat, look down & there is a cross bar that has the build date on it.

You may wanna inquire about warranty on spindles.

Hour meter is helpful. & Should do an 8 hour oil change. It will be listed in the owners manual.

Mulch kit, yep more build up. I park mine in my shop, nothing stinks worse than wet grass drying & getting musty smelling. :laughing:

Anyhow, let us know how ya like it. & Enjoy.


#16

B

bigdaddyr

I considered the Timesaver but then went more commercial. I have found with the higher blade speed and weekly mowings that the trimmings are much smaller than with my old Craftsman Tractor. It leaves no stragglers or windrows. I would try it without your mulch kit first and without touching the deck pitch. They set these things from the factory and maybe they got it right. I know they did on my Fastrak SD. Striped nice right out of the box.

Enjoy it and happy mowing.


#17

7394

7394

bigdaddyr said:
I considered the Timesaver but then went more commercial. I have found with the higher blade speed and weekly mowings that the trimmings are much smaller than with my old Craftsman Tractor. It leaves no stragglers or windrows. I would try it without your mulch kit first and without touching the deck pitch. They set these things from the factory and maybe they got it right. I know they did on my Fastrak SD. Striped nice right out of the box.

Enjoy it and happy mowing.
Click to expand...

The TimeCutter 5000 has a blade tip speed (BTS) of 18,330 ft /per minute. Many commercial 52" ers have a BTS of 18,500 ft / per minute. Not really a difference worth noting.

Before use I would suggest checking the tire pressures just to be sure.


#18

J

josby

7394 said:
Hope you got the Toro End of Year Sale Price. I saved well over $400. last year when I got mine.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...no, I didn't. But the MSRP is $3200 and the dealer is charging just $3000. But that's the same price as Home Depot so I don't know if that's a sale or not. I don't see any mention on Toro's site about a end of year sale. How did you know there was one going on when you bought yours?

7394 said:
FYI: To tell the year, behind the seat, look down & there is a cross bar that has the build date on it.
Click to expand...

Oh, cool, I will check for that. I'm pretty sure that the 2014 and below only had a two-position "Smart Speed" selector, while the 2015 has three, so I am going to check for that too. Definitely want to make sure they're not selling me a unit that's been sitting idle for a year.

7394 said:
You may wanna inquire about warranty on spindles.
Click to expand...

I read through the warranty terms in the online manual and it's not listed as one of the non-covered wear items like belts or blades. They do say that any component failing due to normal wear is also not covered, so I guess it would depend on whether they'd consider water-damaged spindles to be "normal wear" or not. But if so, new spindles are only about $35.

7394 said:
Anyhow, let us know how ya like it. & Enjoy.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will!


#19

J

josby

bigdaddyr said:
I considered the Timesaver but then went more commercial. I have found with the higher blade speed and weekly mowings that the trimmings are much smaller than with my old Craftsman Tractor. It leaves no stragglers or windrows. I would try it without your mulch kit first and without touching the deck pitch. They set these things from the factory and maybe they got it right. I know they did on my Fastrak SD. Striped nice right out of the box.
Click to expand...

Cool, that is a serious step up from the Toro. I was considering the little brother, the Raptor SD, but couldn't find any pics showing if it striped well or not, and ultimately decided the extra ruggedness of it wouldn't be necessary for my use. The regular Raptor was comparable in price and features, but the BTS was only 16,000. Love that yellow, though.

Yeah, I may just try it all as out of the box first. The Toro manual says the pitch should be 1/16" to 5/16" toward the front. I'm excited because I found some videos (https://youtu.be/kss4M2zggUQ) of a guy with a slightly older Toro with a stamped deck that gets some great stripes with his without a kit. He says he sets his pitch at 1/2", so I'll try that if I don't get the striping I want with the original settings.


#20

7394

7394

josby said:
Hmmm...no, I didn't. But the MSRP is $3200 and the dealer is charging just $3000. But that's the same price as Home Depot so I don't know if that's a sale or not. I don't see any mention on Toro's site about a end of year sale. How did you know there was one going on when you bought yours?

According to my Toro Dealer, Home Depot can't sell under a Toro Dealers price. If you see that & tell your Dealer, they will put a stop to it, & appreciate your input.

Nope, that was NOT the sale price. Talk to your Dealer, Toro Dealers have a year end sale every year in August for 1 week, that's when I buy my big ticket items. Not sure your Dealer works this way or not ? But they are supposed to.



Oh, cool, I will check for that. I'm pretty sure that the 2014 and below only had a two-position "Smart Speed" selector, while the 2015 has three, so I am going to check for that too. Definitely want to make sure they're not selling me a unit that's been sitting idle for a year.

Yep 2015 has 3 speeds. my 2014 only has 2.



I read through the warranty terms in the online manual and it's not listed as one of the non-covered wear items like belts or blades. They do say that any component failing due to normal wear is also not covered, so I guess it would depend on whether they'd consider water-damaged spindles to be "normal wear" or not. But if so, new spindles are only about $35.

Really ? $ 35. ?



Thanks, I will!
Click to expand...

Cool.. PS: A friend works at my local Dealership, so I get the scoop.


#21

J

josby

For anyone interested, I got the Toro SS5000 and put the mulching kit on it right away last Fall. I wasn't really pleased with the cut quality, though. It mulched perfectly, but even on the lowest of the three drive speeds, I still had cut quality issues.

So I took the mulching kit all off at the start of this season and it cuts much better, although now I have the problem of lots of grass clippings getting thrown into the rocks around my pool and deck and front porch (hard to blow out with a leaf blower).

After adjusting the deck pitch to about 5/16" sloped forward, it stripes really nicely for a big-box store mower :smile: (cutting tall fescue at 4", stock blades):

IMG_20160507_1211473~2.png


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