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Crankshaft and Camshaft end play

#1

N

Neo7

Hi,

Is there an easy way to measure the Crankshaft and Camshaft end play on a V-twin CV or CH Kohler Command?
I'm assuming the cover needs to be replaced and removed each time I measure this but the Kohler Service manual does not say that and the cover it'self is quite hard to get on and off.

Also, with the Camshaft, how do you apply side way pressure and where do you measure the end play from with the cover on?


Any tips anyone?

All the best.
Neo


#2

C

chance123

Model & spec number?


#3

N

Neo7

CV23S-75579 ... Thanks


#4

N

Neo7

I'm confused :confused2: ....I've check many Kohler parts diagrams but there doesn't seem to be a shim on the crankshaft and Kohler don't sell any either.....Can anyone confirm that?

And what's the point of checking the crankshaft clearance if you can't adjust it??

All the best.
Neo


#5

B

Buckshot 1

:thumbsup: Neo7, you are correct. there is no shim.


#6

M

motoman

Neo7 said:
I'm confused :confused2: ....I've check many Kohler parts diagrams but there doesn't seem to be a shim on the crankshaft and Kohler don't sell any either.....Can anyone confirm that?

And what's the point of checking the crankshaft clearance if you can't adjust it??

All the best.
Neo
Click to expand...

neo, first check it with a dial indicatior or feeler gauge. Maybe its in spec.


#7

M

motoman

Neo7 said:
Hi,

Is there an easy way to measure the Crankshaft and Camshaft end play on a V-twin CV or CH Kohler Command?
I'm assuming the cover needs to be replaced and removed each time I measure this but the Kohler Service manual does not say that and the cover it'self is quite hard to get on and off.

Also, with the Camshaft, how do you apply side way pressure and where do you measure the end play from with the cover on?


Any tips anyone?

All the best.
Neo
Click to expand...
(I just answered #6 too soon maybe) I do not have a drawing of your engine so I'll take a stab... If the crank is exposed you should be able to move it fore and aft with hand or gentle prying (even with the rods on?). Maybe also the cam. Both easier if unloaded by no rods,no valve gear. Sometimes the end of the journals are exposed other side of supporting case(s), and end play can be measured there (again) by movement fore/aft. This advise may be too "universal" to help.


#8

N

Neo7

Thanks Gents,

But please tell me how do you use a tool that looks like THIS (please click) to preform this procedure in the Kohler manual...
Determining Camshaft End Play
1. Install shim removed during disassembly onto camshaft.
2. Position camshaft end play checking tool on camshaft.
3. Apply pressure on camshaft end play checking tool (pushing camshaft toward crankshaft). Use a feeler gauge to measure camshaft end play between shim spacer and checking tool. Camshaft end play should be 0.076/0.127 mm (0.003/0.005 in.).
4. If camshaft end play is not within specified range, remove checking tool and replace shim as necessary.
 :confused2:

Well I guess the cover stays off (which make no sense) but that's all I can work out from this.

All the best.
Neo


#9

B

Buckshot 1

:smile: I spoke to soon, according to what Neo7 posted, there is a shim/shims on the cam. I have never had a CV-twin or a CH command apart. But I have worked on plenty of CV12-15 and never found a shim on the cam. I quickly scaned the Kohler manual and I beleive it said push down hard on the tool after installing shim and check cam end play. If not within the .003-.005 range add or remove shim/shims according to achive proper end play.


#10

M

motoman

Neo7 said:
Thanks Gents,

But please tell me how do you use a tool that looks like THIS (please click) to preform this procedure in the Kohler manual...
Determining Camshaft End Play
1. Install shim removed during disassembly onto camshaft.
2. Position camshaft end play checking tool on camshaft.
3. Apply pressure on camshaft end play checking tool (pushing camshaft toward crankshaft). Use a feeler gauge to measure camshaft end play between shim spacer and checking tool. Camshaft end play should be 0.076/0.127 mm (0.003/0.005 in.).
4. If camshaft end play is not within specified range, remove checking tool and replace shim as necessary.


Well I guess the cover stays off (which make no sense) but that's all I can work out from this.

All the best.
Neo
Click to expand...
DON'T ACT ON THE FOLLOWING UNLESS YOU ARE DESPERATE...cause I may be full of hot air... Wait for someone with specific knowledge/experiehce to advise you.

I looked at Kohler diagrams. The cam journals homes are "blind" meaning you cannot measure end play off the tips of the cam once cases are assembled. So to check endplay you could (a) set up a dial indicator parallel to the cam and take a reading off any edge you can access. (I know you may not have the mag base and dial idicator-so this is out) . (2) Measure at either cam end. I thnk the tool MAY be intended to substitute for the cam gear so you measure at that end between the 1/2"thick tool and the case. I guess you have the cam gear off? If so measure the thickness. If it is 1/2"
that is good indication of this theory. The tool looks like it is cut away so you can get a feeler gauge down where you need to . The large OD of the cam gear prohibits access. So what??? If they don't want outrageous price for the tool (to me about $8 ) go for it - pick their brain first. If you have 1/2"scrap metal , a hack saw and drill press (and an hour) make the tool. PS I don't understand the instruction of pushing the tool toward the crankshaft. MAYBE THIS WILL MOTIVATE SOMEONE TO TELL YOU HOW!:laughing::eek:


#11

N

Neo7

Ok its not so much an end play measurement, its just a static level/gap mesurement. But this Kohler tool is crazy.... Can't see why I can't use a simple steel rule (or a thick sheet of glass) across the case?

All the best.
Neo


#12

M

motoman

Neo7 said:
Ok its not so much an end play measurement, its just a static level/gap mesurement. But this Kohler tool is crazy.... Can't see why I can't use a simple steel rule (or a thick sheet of glass) across the case?

All the best.
Neo
Click to expand...

wish i could comment more ...keep brain picking, on line and telephone if you can
if you can figure out the purpose of the tool make it


#13

M

motoman

Neo7 said:
Ok its not so much an end play measurement, its just a static level/gap mesurement. But this Kohler tool is crazy.... Can't see why I can't use a simple steel rule (or a thick sheet of glass) across the case?

All the best.
Neo
Click to expand...

no, a gap=end play measurement. static level?? did i throw you off with dial indicator talk-forget it

Your last sentence above...because you probably cannot see nor reach the INTENDED"gap" between the cam and the case with the cam gear in place. try putting the "tool" on where the gear is. you will need a puller most likely (or press)

Thread 8 above ...you MUST have the cases on and torqued to make the measurement (with the tool in place of the cam gear,I think)

Also I believe that instruction 3 you cited has a typo...SB "move toward the crankCASE," not crankshaft. are you having fun yet?? :mur:


#14

N

Neo7

Hi Gents,

Theres no way to measure anything with the cover back on and this is the one photo I've got that shows how the tool is used (sorry, I ment to post this up before).....
KohlerCamTool_zpsce1f420f.jpg


Let me know what you think?

All the best.
Neo


#15

N

Neo7

motoman said:
Also I believe that instruction 3 you cited has a typo...SB "move toward the crankCASE," not crankshaft. are you having fun yet?? :mur:
Click to expand...

No "move towards the crankshaft" is actually correct.


#16

R

Rivets

Have the tool in my box, but never had a reason to use it. Was shown how to use at service school ( to many years ago to remember what they told us ). Personally I think this tool and checking camshaft clearance is an engineer at Kohler saying let's sell them a tool and drive them nuts. If you think about it, Camshaft end play is affecting a 5/16" wide cam gear and 5/8" wide cam lobe. If it is moving an extra .005 what will it affect in performance? Just my opinion. Never really worry about it when I do a Kohler rebuild.


#17

N

Neo7

Rivets said:
...... Never really worry about it when I do a Kohler rebuild.
Click to expand...
That's just what I needed to know... Thanks Rivets :thumbsup:

All the best.
Neo


#18

M

motoman

Good escape from the matrix with no solution (the photo bucket is really weak and won't enlarge)

I just remembered I saw a single cyl Kohler cam end play measurement on line. It looked like it was done down thru the dip stick hole. Didn't take down the model no.


#19

B

Buckshot 1

:laughing:About the Engineer, that is true not only Kohler but everything in todays world. I have said many times, when working on something, I wish I had the Engineer here who designed it. Maybe he/she would re-thunk their design.


#20

N

Neo7

motoman said:
Good escape from the matrix with no solution
Click to expand...
It's a great feeling :wink:

Sorry about that picture but it's all I've got.

All the best.
Neo


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