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Craftsman T2400 Kohler won't start
#1
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#2
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
We need the actual engine model number and Specification number(spec number for short) and engine serial number from the tag on the engine. T2400 doesn't tell us if it is a CV or SV or KT.
#3
StarTech
StarTech
Well for what seems like the millionth time we the need real model number from the serial number tag and in this case the engine model and spec numbers. Personally I am getting tired of having try explain to folks that every mower and engine is usually different and have their own set of problems. Posters seems to think every mower and engine are the same. THey are not as complex as automobiles but are still an assembly of different manufactures parts.
#4
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
I don't think people realize that mowers have at least 3 different manufacturers with their own problems, services, and warranty. Also that the number on the hood is just a series number and can have several different models within that series. And that doesn't take into account the 3rd party companies manufacturing under license to brand products Like Murray, Snapper, Husqvarna, Craftsman, Briggs and Stratton and the 3rd party manufacturer handles all parts, service, warranty, etc.Well for what seems like the millionth time we the need real model number from the serial number tag and in this case the engine model and spec numbers. Personally I am getting tired of having try explain to folks that every mower and engine is usually different and have their own set of problems. Posters seems to think every mower and engine are the same. THey are not as complex as automobiles but are still an assembly of different manufactures parts.
#5
Craftsman Garage
Craftsman Garage
23HP Kohler 7000 series KT730-3035
#6
P
pchalpin
P
pchalpin
Hey SUPER Star Tech, you were never a newbie on any forum? Give the guy some help, not condescending crap.
#8
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
I would recommend putting a small amount of gas into the intake and see if it fires and runs on it, but there is also a chance that it flooded out, and adding gas could make it worse or give a false symptom leading down a non needed rabbit hole. Try cranking it first without the choke on and see what happens, then try adding the gas to the intake and see what happens. The choke on flooding could of also wet fouled the spark plug, So wouldn't hurt trying with new plugs and see what happens, and they would be considered a maintenance item so no effect on warranty consideration.
I wouldn't get too far into diagnosing due to have 1 more year on the engine warranty.
I wouldn't get too far into diagnosing due to have 1 more year on the engine warranty.
#9
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
If an engine refuses to start (regardless of brand, etc.), one of the first things you can check is the spark plug. Is it wet, dry, condition, gap. Then put a little gas into the spark plug hole and put plug back in and see if it fires.Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#10
StarTech
First check for spark at the plug with it grounded to the engine as she may may just fouled it out. And just note that even if fires outside the engine's compression zone it still can be bad enough to not fire under the compression load. The best option is to try a known good plug.
StarTech
I did give him the info that he needs to post we needed for looking up the equipment. And for the late post as I just got back out of horsepital.Hey SUPER Star Tech, you were never a newbie on any forum? Give the guy some help, not condescending crap.
Sorry about that snap but it does irritate me that it keeps constantly happening that the need is not posted before we can look things up.Sorry about that...Spec PS-KT730-3046 Serial 5202706963 build date 1/27/2022
First check for spark at the plug with it grounded to the engine as she may may just fouled it out. And just note that even if fires outside the engine's compression zone it still can be bad enough to not fire under the compression load. The best option is to try a known good plug.
#11
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
No problem! Im that guy on the Montana Fifth Wheel Owners forum who has no patience with newbies who ask a question but never state their year or model number. My bad for not being more specific with my question. I will work on the tractor this pm and update you. I appreciate the help!I did give him the info that he needs to post we needed for looking up the equipment. And for the late post as I just got back out of horsepital.
Sorry about that snap but it does irritate me that it keeps constantly happening that the need is not posted before we can look things up.
First check for spark at the plug with it grounded to the engine as she may may just fouled it out. And just note that even if fires outside the engine's compression zone it still can be bad enough to not fire under the compression load. The best option is to try a known good plug.
#12
P
pchalpin
P
pchalpin
Hi Star Tech. Sorry to hear you were in the hospital, and hope you are on the mend. I too regret my snap. My apologies.I did give him the info that he needs to post we needed for looking up the equipment. And for the late post as I just got back out of horsepital.
Sorry about that snap but it does irritate me that it keeps constantly happening that the need is not posted before we can look things up.
First check for spark at the plug with it grounded to the engine as she may may just fouled it out. And just note that even if fires outside the engine's compression zone it still can be bad enough to not fire under the compression load. The best option is to try a known good plug.
#13
J
Joed756
J
Joed756
Was this perhaps your first mow of the season? Or, had you just added fuel that has been sitting for awhile. You might have some water in the tank, check with a turkey baster, just not the one that your wife uses.Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#14
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
Here is what I have done so far...spark plugs were wet and dark, so I put new Champion spark plugs in. I replaced the fuel filter and the air filter. Cleaned up everything. Initially I thought the battery was bad but it tested good at Advanced Auto Parts. The battery terminals were loose so I put in some new nuts and bolts to tighten them up. First crank attempt (no choke) - got no fire. I sprayed some starting fluid in the intake, again no choke and it fired up for about 3 seconds and died. Repeated the starter spray two more times with same result. What next?
#15
Craftsman Garage
Craftsman Garage
Well, from what I can tell, that is a carburetor issue. You can either take the carburetor apart and try to clean all the little holes of any potential debris (this may not always work) or just but a new carburetor. Whether you pick oem kohler or much cheaper Amazon is up to you, but this is just what I suggest.
#16
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
Amazon has a bunch of choices for KT730 for $35 - $50. Can you recommend one or two?
#19
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
Out the new carb on today. Still get the same result. It fires for 3 seconds and dies. It will not crank.
For what it is worth - spark plugs are getting spark (got shocked by one) and gas flows out of fuel pump.
The new plug tips looked vaguely like small film of clear oil on the tip. I wiped it off.
What next? I'm thinking I need to find a mobile lawn mower mechanic - if there is such a thing.
The one shop within 30 miles will keep it for 4-6 weeks...if I can get it loaded up on the truck and take it in.
For what it is worth - spark plugs are getting spark (got shocked by one) and gas flows out of fuel pump.
The new plug tips looked vaguely like small film of clear oil on the tip. I wiped it off.
What next? I'm thinking I need to find a mobile lawn mower mechanic - if there is such a thing.
The one shop within 30 miles will keep it for 4-6 weeks...if I can get it loaded up on the truck and take it in.
#20
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
Still sounds like it’s not getting gas from the carb. If you remove the carb bowl plug, does gas flow from the bowl? If there’s a fuel shut off, is it completely open?Out the new carb on today. Still get the same result. It fires for 3 seconds and dies. It will not crank.
For what it is worth - spark plugs are getting spark (got shocked by one) and gas flows out of fuel pump.
The new plug tips looked vaguely like small film of clear oil on the tip. I wiped it off.
What next? I'm thinking I need to find a mobile lawn mower mechanic - if there is such a thing.
The one shop within 30 miles will keep it for 4-6 weeks...if I can get it loaded up on the truck and take it in.
#21
G
gregjo1948
G
gregjo1948
I'd install new spark plugs. By running it multiple times with the choke on, you've probably gas soaked them causing them not to fire/spark properly.Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#22
C
closecut
C
closecut
Try this:Open the throttle wide open.Crank over engine and see if raw fuel comes out of spark plug hole.If not there is definitely a fuel supply problem.Did you change the fuel filter? Sometimes they will clog inside the tank,so remove the fuel line fitting at the tank and check if it is clogged.Sometimes this happens if it sits with fuel in it over the winter.Also check all the safety switches,seat(seat is prone to switch failure.),deck,clutch,forward,etc.if you have no a spark.Feeling a shock does not necessarily mean a good spark.
#23
K
kyledeere79
K
kyledeere79
You should have connected a 2 wire connector to the bottom of the carburetor- double check that's plugged in and you can also listen for it to click when the key goes forward one notch. It's a 12V solenoid that has a plunger that sticks out and keeps the gas from flowing when the key is off- turn the key on the click soundcis the plunger pulling back and letting gas by.
#24
E
elmrfudd
E
elmrfudd
It may be a good idea to check for possible fuel in the oil, since it appears the engine was flooded. Gasoline in the oil has a tendency to alter the mixture put forth by the carburetor, causing an extremely rich mixture inside the combustion chamber, especially if the crankcase has taken on significant fuel seeping past the rings. I’ve experienced this more than once, where changing the oil solved the issue. It can usually be easily detected by seeing if your dipstick indicates oil being well above the ‘full’ mark, and noticeably thinned by the gasoline. May be worth checking.
#25
G
Gebo
G
Gebo
Dump the old gas. Drain the carbs and lines. Pour in fresh gas. It’s the old gasoline. Problems with small engines are almost always “bad” gas.
#26
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
I 2nd this. Any time I have starting problems, new fuel is my first go-to.Dump the old gas. Drain the carbs and lines. Pour in fresh gas. It’s the old gasoline. Problems with small engines are almost always “bad” gas.
#27
E
elmrfudd
E
elmrfudd
Very possible, Gebo, especially if the gas wasn’t stabilized or contains ethanol, since ethanol attracts moisture. I always fill my cans with non-ethanol, stabilized fuel. Great point!Dump the old gas. Drain the carbs and lines. Pour in fresh gas. It’s the old gasoline. Problems with small engines are almost always “bad” gas.
#28
G
Gord Baker
Find the number on the porcelain portion of the spark plug and purchase a new one.
Carefully remove the old one, check gap on new one. A good time to sharpen blades and change oil if needed.
G
Gord Baker
I expect the Spark Plug is carboned up due to running rich with the Choke On.Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
Find the number on the porcelain portion of the spark plug and purchase a new one.
Carefully remove the old one, check gap on new one. A good time to sharpen blades and change oil if needed.
#29
Dguerra83
Dguerra83
Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
It's probably flooded out. Take spark plug off and wipe it off. Put back in and try starting without choke. Also you do not need your model and serial number to diagnose.Unless your behind a computer to diagnose it.
#30
The Maintenance Guy
The Maintenance Guy
Probably just flooded. Take the plug out, let it dry for a while and it should be good. Remember to shut the choke off in the future. Make it a point to not begin driving until you push it in.
#31
A
Air4Dave
A
Air4Dave
I'd pull the spark plug, it's probably fouled! If not, clean it up with brass or steel brush, check the gap, and then try again. If that doesn't do it, spray a very small burst of starting fluid into the air intake and turn it over. Once it starts keep the throttle full on until it runs smoothly. Be very careful with the starting fluid amount!Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#32
T
Thomp
T
Thomp
My wife didn't come with a serial number tag. Maybe I can return her and get a cash refund.Well for what seems like the millionth time we the need real model number from the serial number tag and in this case the engine model and spec numbers. Personally I am getting tired of having try explain to folks that every mower and engine is usually different and have their own set of problems. Posters seems to think every mower and engine are the same. THey are not as complex as automobiles but are still an assembly of different manufactures parts.
#33
C
closecut
I have found that using a propane torch to burn off the tip and ceramic parts of the plug cleans and restores the new condition.Do not hold the flame on the tip too long,it will crack the porcelain.About 5 seconds is enough.If you do not get a blue spark or white spark from the plug,repeat this procedure. An orange spark is a weak spark. It took a bit of trial and error for me to come up with this method,and it works for me.
C
closecut
The new fuel anti;knock compounds in gas foul a plug very easily,and is almost impossible to remove the fouling by normal means,wire brush,etc.The fouling is not visible.Try this:Open the throttle wide open.Crank over engine and see if raw fuel comes out of spark plug hole.If not there is definitely a fuel supply problem.Did you change the fuel filter? Sometimes they will clog inside the tank,so remove the fuel line fitting at the tank and check if it is clogged.Sometimes this happens if it sits with fuel in it over the winter.Also check all the safety switches,seat(seat is prone to switch failure.),deck,clutch,forward,etc.if you have no a spark.Feeling a shock does not necessarily mean a good spark.
I have found that using a propane torch to burn off the tip and ceramic parts of the plug cleans and restores the new condition.Do not hold the flame on the tip too long,it will crack the porcelain.About 5 seconds is enough.If you do not get a blue spark or white spark from the plug,repeat this procedure. An orange spark is a weak spark. It took a bit of trial and error for me to come up with this method,and it works for me.
#34
D
DinosaurMike
D
DinosaurMike
1. It would be good if Admin could request that the posting form include a statement listing all the required information. Better still would be boxes for the info with the poster receiving a warning if the boxes are left blank.
2. I don't know much other than what I have experienced. My 1940 Ford truck and two lawn tractors all need some choke to start. I can ease it off on the tractors pretty quickly. I don't recall OP-Mike stating that he partially choked the engine on subsequent tries. The first few he stated that the choke was off. Maybe the engine needs some choke to start and run.
3. I don't think I saw a statement from OP-Mike about what gasoline he uses and whether he uses a stabilizer. He stated in one post that he used fresh gas. Could ethanol gas have destroyed the fuel line (if there is one) in the two years he has owned the tractor? I know he said that he replaced the carb.
4. Did anyone explain how to check the fuel shutoff solenoid? I know someone suggested that OP-Mike verify that the electrical connection was made and someone said that he should listen for a click. What about disconnecting the solenoid wires, key off, and applying 12 volts to the solenoid connections, bypassing the entire electrical system? Wouldn't that show whether or not the solenoid is working?
5. Everyone seems to agrees that an engine that starts on starter fluid and then dies is not getting gasoline. Can someone guide OP-Mike on how to check for gas at every point after the fuel pump. That appears to be the last point he knows there is gas flow.
Good luck Mikendebbie.
2. I don't know much other than what I have experienced. My 1940 Ford truck and two lawn tractors all need some choke to start. I can ease it off on the tractors pretty quickly. I don't recall OP-Mike stating that he partially choked the engine on subsequent tries. The first few he stated that the choke was off. Maybe the engine needs some choke to start and run.
3. I don't think I saw a statement from OP-Mike about what gasoline he uses and whether he uses a stabilizer. He stated in one post that he used fresh gas. Could ethanol gas have destroyed the fuel line (if there is one) in the two years he has owned the tractor? I know he said that he replaced the carb.
4. Did anyone explain how to check the fuel shutoff solenoid? I know someone suggested that OP-Mike verify that the electrical connection was made and someone said that he should listen for a click. What about disconnecting the solenoid wires, key off, and applying 12 volts to the solenoid connections, bypassing the entire electrical system? Wouldn't that show whether or not the solenoid is working?
5. Everyone seems to agrees that an engine that starts on starter fluid and then dies is not getting gasoline. Can someone guide OP-Mike on how to check for gas at every point after the fuel pump. That appears to be the last point he knows there is gas flow.
Good luck Mikendebbie.
#35
T
TobyU
It obviously wasn't actually wet or not wet enough and not fouled or it wouldn't have run when you gave it starting fluid.
Note that I recommend you throw the can of starting fluid away because it's very hard on engines. Get a can of spray carb cleaner because you can run one all day on that stuff without hurting them.
Someone mentioned something earlier about trying a spark plug and one won't start but in the thousands upon thousands of mowers I have done I have found that that is not the most efficient way.
Anytime a mower presents itself to you that will not start, the very first thing to do is to give it a separate fuel source straight into the intake.
If it runs, you can forget about the plug and everything else because you know it's mechanically sound.
You can be 98% certain probably 99, that it simply isn't feeding fuel on its own for whatever reason..
There is that rare pedantic comment that someone will make where it could have fuel that is mostly water or just straight water in its fuel system so the plug could be wet etc and it can still run on an external fuel source but not technically be anything wrong with it but those cases are few and very far between so I don't worry about those.
Point is, don't waste time worrying about the plug. Give it a fuel source into the intake and if it runs for a couple seconds and dies, the plug is fine.
Then move on to the carburetor because normally it's stuff floating around in the ball, gelled up or rusted up, or the Jets are clogged or the small solenoid on the bottom of the carburetor is not allowing fuel to flow up into it if it has one of those.
These are all common problems.
T
TobyU
This is for experience and seeing thousands of plugs comes in. You described the plugs as being wet and dark but ever used plug that comes out of a mower is dark if not black and wet is a matter of opinion.Here is what I have done so far...spark plugs were wet and dark, so I put new Champion spark plugs in. I replaced the fuel filter and the air filter. Cleaned up everything. Initially I thought the battery was bad but it tested good at Advanced Auto Parts. The battery terminals were loose so I put in some new nuts and bolts to tighten them up. First crank attempt (no choke) - got no fire. I sprayed some starting fluid in the intake, again no choke and it fired up for about 3 seconds and died. Repeated the starter spray two more times with same result. What next?
It obviously wasn't actually wet or not wet enough and not fouled or it wouldn't have run when you gave it starting fluid.
Note that I recommend you throw the can of starting fluid away because it's very hard on engines. Get a can of spray carb cleaner because you can run one all day on that stuff without hurting them.
Someone mentioned something earlier about trying a spark plug and one won't start but in the thousands upon thousands of mowers I have done I have found that that is not the most efficient way.
Anytime a mower presents itself to you that will not start, the very first thing to do is to give it a separate fuel source straight into the intake.
If it runs, you can forget about the plug and everything else because you know it's mechanically sound.
You can be 98% certain probably 99, that it simply isn't feeding fuel on its own for whatever reason..
There is that rare pedantic comment that someone will make where it could have fuel that is mostly water or just straight water in its fuel system so the plug could be wet etc and it can still run on an external fuel source but not technically be anything wrong with it but those cases are few and very far between so I don't worry about those.
Point is, don't waste time worrying about the plug. Give it a fuel source into the intake and if it runs for a couple seconds and dies, the plug is fine.
Then move on to the carburetor because normally it's stuff floating around in the ball, gelled up or rusted up, or the Jets are clogged or the small solenoid on the bottom of the carburetor is not allowing fuel to flow up into it if it has one of those.
These are all common problems.
#36
C
Combat_Pyro
C
Combat_Pyro
Wait for the fuel to gas off, it’s probably flooded. If you can’t wait, put it on full throttle with no choke and crank it for 15 seconds. If it fires, great. If not, wait a minute for the starter to cool then try to crank it that way again for 15 seconds. If that fails, you probably have a fouled plug or something deeper wrong in the carb. You’ll have to check for air, fuel, and spark to see where the triangle is broken.
#37
M
Midnight_Rider
M
Midnight_Rider
Grab a known working spark plug from whatever you have currently running.Doesnt matter what it is,and place it into spark plug boot,ground to head or bolt and spin it over looking for a bright blue spark... If it sparks well,then remove the one in cylinder head and try it..If weak or non existent then replace plug with new,correct number plug.. Once you have good fire at plug,pour a teaspoon full of gas into plug hole,install plug(s) and try starting...If it fires off and runs a few revolutions then check carb jets and bowl for trash.. clean,reinstall. Should then run as long as blades aren't engaged,seat switch either works or is bypassed... Running with choke or enrichener for a few feet shouldn't have harmed anything unless it fuel fouled the plug..
#38
A
Always Learning
A
Always Learning
Check your plug(s). Ran rich then died. Probably all Carboned up. Clean or change them as your skill level fits if you find they're black and/or wet. Good luck.Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#39
L
LawnWizard
L
LawnWizard
Craftsman T2400 Kohler engine (24 hrs on the guage) purchased from Lowes May 2022. It has been doing great. Wife can never remember to choke before cranking OR to take it off choke once it is cranked. Yesterday she jumped on the tractor, cranked it up and took off with the choke engaged. I started running toward her to take the choke off - but before I got there it died. She drove it about 20'. Now it will not fire and run. I put the battery charger on it so the battery is good. It had fresh gas in it. Starter turns it over but no fire. Any ideas what I should do to get it going?
#40
L
LawnWizard
L
LawnWizard
Without a receipt, it will just be store credit!My wife didn't come with a serial number tag. Maybe I can return her and get a cash refund.
#41
S
spankyscamp
S
spankyscamp
Take fuel line off at filter and blow a little bit of air into line back to tank. With the gas we have know it eats away at the inside of the hose. Put the fuel line back together and try to start. Look for black spot in your filter if it starts. If it does start, it should run OK.
#42
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
Well - sometimes the simplest things...the choke cable had slipped and the choke would not close. I adjusted the cable to close the choke plate and it runs great now. I appreciate the help from this forum!
But before I figured that out -
- I changed the plugs
- I changed the air and gas filters
- I put a new carb on it (kept the old one because it is probably ok)
- drained the fuel tank and put fresh ethanol free gas in it
- verified the fuel pump was spitting fuel
- cleaned the battery poles and tightened the cables for good contact
- All good basic maintenance thanks to the forum help!!!
But before I figured that out -
- I changed the plugs
- I changed the air and gas filters
- I put a new carb on it (kept the old one because it is probably ok)
- drained the fuel tank and put fresh ethanol free gas in it
- verified the fuel pump was spitting fuel
- cleaned the battery poles and tightened the cables for good contact
- All good basic maintenance thanks to the forum help!!!
#43
T
TobyU
All too often people end up trying this or trying that which is basically throwing parts at a piece of equipment and typically on the 3rd or 4th time they luck out and get it fixed and this actually reinforces the bad way of doing things and the next time they have a problem they will typically repeat the process.
It bothers me greatly to see money wasted on equipment that doesn't need to be and time spent when it shouldn't be.
As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, since so many problems with mowers and outdoor power equipment end up being lack of fuel or lack of enough fuel getting into the engine the best diagnostic procedure based on statistics and odds is to always go with fuel first.
I mentioned that over the many thousands of mowers that I have repaired, that things like spark plugs are only the problem about one and every 450 to one in every 500.
Yet, it is the go-to for a lot of people when their mother won't start.
Going to fuel and giving an external fuel source first is the fastest way to get to the cause of the problems quickly.
Now you do have to know how to interpret the results and this is where experience and practice kicks in.
On your situation, had you have gone to giving it an external fuel source first,
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Because it may take to the second or third time before it continues to run.
If and when it continues to run, this means the carburetor is clear and working properly and that would have saved you the carburetor replacement or save someone the trouble of cleaning out the carburetor or messing with it and taking it apart at all which can cause more problems.
You would know this because the engine runs fine once it gets going and the fact that it wouldn't start on its own would immediately tell you that it's not getting enrichment for starting so you would know to check the choke.
There were a lot of the single Kohler courage engines especially on husqvarna's ship from the factory with the choke poorly adjusted even though there's an adjustment screw there.
These machines would not start after sitting for a while like a couple of days or especially a week even with the choke on because it was not closing over barely halfway.
Once you got them running which a lot of people figured out by using gas or starting fluid, they ran just fine.
It was a simple fix by turning the screw about one and a half turns and then it started perfectly even when cold.
So by the results telling you that it wasn't getting enough fuel when it was cold when it was cranking you would check the choke and an investigating you would have likely found the loose cable.
Sometimes you end up taking the plastic air filter housing off so you can actually see the butterfly of the choke operating.
Now if the machine would have only run for a few seconds each time you put a fuel source into it and it would not continue to run on its own you would know that it's not a choke failing to close issue but rather a restriction inside the carburetor most likely.
It really is a systematic approach that I do to every mower that comes in that won't start.
It's a lot harder to type it out and explain it than it is to show someone how to do it in person.
It can be explained in writing and also a flow chart would work well too but you just have to back all the way back to square one, start from the beginning, and rule out the simplest things first or at least the easiest things to rule out.
It's always best to start with fuel even though some people insist on going the ignition route with plug or checking for spark etc.
They simply waste time by doing this.
I've done this so many times I have it down to an exact science that's a scientific process basically.
If a mower comes to me that will not start and run and if it cranks or pulls the rope normally and seems to be normal but just won't run....then the absolute fastest way to figure it out is to give it fuel in the intake or carb cleaner spray.
If it runs for a few seconds after that then I know the engine is mechanically sound..
I can forget about spark plug, coil, spark, slipped valve guides, popped valve seats, bent push rods, severely blown head gaskets, sheared flywheel keys, camshaft lobes slipping on the knurled camshaft, plastic camshaft teeth twisted off, broken connecting rod.
That covers a lot right there and I can rule out every bit of that if the engine starts and runs for a couple of seconds on carb cleaner spray.
If it doesn't run when you give it an external fuel source it's when the challenge actually begins.
Fortunately, over 85% of the time maybe closer to 90, they do start and run when you give them an external fuel source.
T
TobyU
This is exactly why people really need to focus on the diagnostic skills when there is a problem with a piece of equipment.Well - sometimes the simplest things...the choke cable had slipped and the choke would not close. I adjusted the cable to close the choke plate and it runs great now. I appreciate the help from this forum!
But before I figured that out -
- I changed the plugs
- I changed the air and gas filters
- I put a new carb on it (kept the old one because it is probably ok)
- drained the fuel tank and put fresh ethanol free gas in it
- verified the fuel pump was spitting fuel
- cleaned the battery poles and tightened the cables for good contact
- All good basic maintenance thanks to the forum help!!!
All too often people end up trying this or trying that which is basically throwing parts at a piece of equipment and typically on the 3rd or 4th time they luck out and get it fixed and this actually reinforces the bad way of doing things and the next time they have a problem they will typically repeat the process.
It bothers me greatly to see money wasted on equipment that doesn't need to be and time spent when it shouldn't be.
As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, since so many problems with mowers and outdoor power equipment end up being lack of fuel or lack of enough fuel getting into the engine the best diagnostic procedure based on statistics and odds is to always go with fuel first.
I mentioned that over the many thousands of mowers that I have repaired, that things like spark plugs are only the problem about one and every 450 to one in every 500.
Yet, it is the go-to for a lot of people when their mother won't start.
Going to fuel and giving an external fuel source first is the fastest way to get to the cause of the problems quickly.
Now you do have to know how to interpret the results and this is where experience and practice kicks in.
On your situation, had you have gone to giving it an external fuel source first,
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Because it may take to the second or third time before it continues to run.
If and when it continues to run, this means the carburetor is clear and working properly and that would have saved you the carburetor replacement or save someone the trouble of cleaning out the carburetor or messing with it and taking it apart at all which can cause more problems.
You would know this because the engine runs fine once it gets going and the fact that it wouldn't start on its own would immediately tell you that it's not getting enrichment for starting so you would know to check the choke.
There were a lot of the single Kohler courage engines especially on husqvarna's ship from the factory with the choke poorly adjusted even though there's an adjustment screw there.
These machines would not start after sitting for a while like a couple of days or especially a week even with the choke on because it was not closing over barely halfway.
Once you got them running which a lot of people figured out by using gas or starting fluid, they ran just fine.
It was a simple fix by turning the screw about one and a half turns and then it started perfectly even when cold.
So by the results telling you that it wasn't getting enough fuel when it was cold when it was cranking you would check the choke and an investigating you would have likely found the loose cable.
Sometimes you end up taking the plastic air filter housing off so you can actually see the butterfly of the choke operating.
Now if the machine would have only run for a few seconds each time you put a fuel source into it and it would not continue to run on its own you would know that it's not a choke failing to close issue but rather a restriction inside the carburetor most likely.
It really is a systematic approach that I do to every mower that comes in that won't start.
It's a lot harder to type it out and explain it than it is to show someone how to do it in person.
It can be explained in writing and also a flow chart would work well too but you just have to back all the way back to square one, start from the beginning, and rule out the simplest things first or at least the easiest things to rule out.
It's always best to start with fuel even though some people insist on going the ignition route with plug or checking for spark etc.
They simply waste time by doing this.
I've done this so many times I have it down to an exact science that's a scientific process basically.
If a mower comes to me that will not start and run and if it cranks or pulls the rope normally and seems to be normal but just won't run....then the absolute fastest way to figure it out is to give it fuel in the intake or carb cleaner spray.
If it runs for a few seconds after that then I know the engine is mechanically sound..
I can forget about spark plug, coil, spark, slipped valve guides, popped valve seats, bent push rods, severely blown head gaskets, sheared flywheel keys, camshaft lobes slipping on the knurled camshaft, plastic camshaft teeth twisted off, broken connecting rod.
That covers a lot right there and I can rule out every bit of that if the engine starts and runs for a couple of seconds on carb cleaner spray.
If it doesn't run when you give it an external fuel source it's when the challenge actually begins.
Fortunately, over 85% of the time maybe closer to 90, they do start and run when you give them an external fuel source.
#44
M
mikendebbie
M
mikendebbie
On your situation, had you have gone to giving it an external fuel source first,
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Well - I did this several times...maybe not 3 times in a row (possibly that was my shortfall)...but I got the same result each time...it fired up strong for 2-3 seconds then died. This happened whether I choked it or not. I watched a video on Kevin Caudill's youtube channel about choke adjustment - went out and watched it NOT CLOSE and made the adjustment, It fired and ran a bit rough at first but then started running great. You are correct that maybe I spent money on stuff I did not need - but frankly - this was a hell of learning experience for me - so I have no regrets...it was a $100 classroom experience. The suggestions and information from forum members plus many, many Youtube videos helped me immensely. No regrets! and no apologies needed. Heartfelt thanks to all for the help and explanations !
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Well - I did this several times...maybe not 3 times in a row (possibly that was my shortfall)...but I got the same result each time...it fired up strong for 2-3 seconds then died. This happened whether I choked it or not. I watched a video on Kevin Caudill's youtube channel about choke adjustment - went out and watched it NOT CLOSE and made the adjustment, It fired and ran a bit rough at first but then started running great. You are correct that maybe I spent money on stuff I did not need - but frankly - this was a hell of learning experience for me - so I have no regrets...it was a $100 classroom experience. The suggestions and information from forum members plus many, many Youtube videos helped me immensely. No regrets! and no apologies needed. Heartfelt thanks to all for the help and explanations !
#45
T
TobyU
Just make sure you remember all that for next time you have a problem with something because many people don't and they just start replacing things. Lol
I personally despise YouTube videos because about 90% of them do things either the hard way or the wrong way.
The internet used to be a much better place for information like repairing stuff.
There were individual write-ups or even tutorials that were very similar to a shop manual but a lot of people did themselves. They would have detailed descriptions and then pictures etc.
I find this to be far better than a video because videos are annoying, choppy, often off topic, S---L---O---W as can be etc.
I guess they are better than nothing but I'd rather do without with most of them.
I guess on this way because I grow up reading car repair manuals and shop and service manuals and the internet was laid out very much like that very similar to magazines which are another publication I always liked.
I never liked books unless they were an actual textbook which again is laid out very similarly with diagrams, pictures, captions etc in an effort to clearly and concisely convey the information and get the job done.
The videos just have too much. They bore me to death and I'm sitting there yelling at the people because they're doing something either the wrong way or the hard way or they just don't get it or the fact that I know the way I've done it many times is much better.
If I have a tutorial style layout like a web page, there's really none of this as I just go to the section I need to get the specification, torque setting a certain thing to check and how to check it and then I'm done.
It is kind of odd that your machine didn't continue to run as they usually do after the 3rd or 4th time giving them some gas.
Another good way to test is to hold your hand or a folded shop towel over the intake hole under the air filter to see if you can keep it running that way.
Bye putting your hand on and off covering the hole, you can keep them running and then if it was just to choke issue like yours, within 10 or 12 seconds it will continue to run with your hand off.
THIS would tell you that there is no internal carb blockage and that it just needed choke at first to stay running.
If it died every time you stopped choking it out with your hand or the shop towel, you would know that the car was partially restricted and you have to dig into that or replace it.
If you're quickly and efficiently trying to diagnose a machine (which is what I am always doing) you have to decide what the possible culprits are and the best methods to test and or rule out these things one at a time.
A BIG part of it is knowing how to understand and interpret the results from each test.
This is where a lot of repetition and practice and experience helps.
T
TobyU
Yes! The experience is worth a whole lot..On your situation, had you have gone to giving it an external fuel source first,
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Well - I did this several times...maybe not 3 times in a row (possibly that was my shortfall)...but I got the same result each time...it fired up strong for 2-3 seconds then died. This happened whether I choked it or not. I watched a video on Kevin Caudill's youtube channel about choke adjustment - went out and watched it NOT CLOSE and made the adjustment, It fired and ran a bit rough at first but then started running great. You are correct that maybe I spent money on stuff I did not need - but frankly - this was a hell of learning experience for me - so I have no regrets...it was a $100 classroom experience. The suggestions and information from forum members plus many, many Youtube videos helped me immensely. No regrets! and no apologies needed. Heartfelt thanks to all for the help and explanations !
Just make sure you remember all that for next time you have a problem with something because many people don't and they just start replacing things. Lol
I personally despise YouTube videos because about 90% of them do things either the hard way or the wrong way.
The internet used to be a much better place for information like repairing stuff.
There were individual write-ups or even tutorials that were very similar to a shop manual but a lot of people did themselves. They would have detailed descriptions and then pictures etc.
I find this to be far better than a video because videos are annoying, choppy, often off topic, S---L---O---W as can be etc.
I guess they are better than nothing but I'd rather do without with most of them.
I guess on this way because I grow up reading car repair manuals and shop and service manuals and the internet was laid out very much like that very similar to magazines which are another publication I always liked.
I never liked books unless they were an actual textbook which again is laid out very similarly with diagrams, pictures, captions etc in an effort to clearly and concisely convey the information and get the job done.
The videos just have too much. They bore me to death and I'm sitting there yelling at the people because they're doing something either the wrong way or the hard way or they just don't get it or the fact that I know the way I've done it many times is much better.
If I have a tutorial style layout like a web page, there's really none of this as I just go to the section I need to get the specification, torque setting a certain thing to check and how to check it and then I'm done.
It is kind of odd that your machine didn't continue to run as they usually do after the 3rd or 4th time giving them some gas.
Another good way to test is to hold your hand or a folded shop towel over the intake hole under the air filter to see if you can keep it running that way.
Bye putting your hand on and off covering the hole, you can keep them running and then if it was just to choke issue like yours, within 10 or 12 seconds it will continue to run with your hand off.
THIS would tell you that there is no internal carb blockage and that it just needed choke at first to stay running.
If it died every time you stopped choking it out with your hand or the shop towel, you would know that the car was partially restricted and you have to dig into that or replace it.
If you're quickly and efficiently trying to diagnose a machine (which is what I am always doing) you have to decide what the possible culprits are and the best methods to test and or rule out these things one at a time.
A BIG part of it is knowing how to understand and interpret the results from each test.
This is where a lot of repetition and practice and experience helps.
#46
A
Air4Dave
A
Air4Dave
If you're "getting tired of having to explain..." then why are you on here? You don't have to be rude! Many get on this forum for the first time and don't know EXACTLY what information is needed to help those of us who MAY be able to lend a hand! As another commenter stated below, and I agree...some kind of "form card" should be made available for first time poster here that have them put all the numbers for a person's mower on it.Well for what seems like the millionth time we the need real model number from the serial number tag and in this case the engine model and spec numbers. Personally I am getting tired of having try explain to folks that every mower and engine is usually different and have their own set of problems. Posters seems to think every mower and engine are the same. THey are not as complex as automobiles but are still an assembly of different manufactures parts.
#47
B
bc22
B
bc22
Good luck. I purchased the same model in March of 2023. It cranked fine the first couple of times I used it. Then it would spin, but not turn over (bogs the fly wheel down). Took it to a local shop, they changed the starter (took them 8 weeks). Got it back and it lasted a few cuts and same symptom. Took it to another shop that changed the starter, adjusted the valves (kept it a couple of weeks). Went to get on it a week ago, pulled it around front, cut it off and added some gas.... same issue. Changed out the switch, inspected the wiring. One thing that has me confused is my solenoid tests great on the bench, but when I put it back in the mower, it won't click.. I thought I had a valve issue, now I'm wondering if it's a wiring issue.. This will be my last Craftsman purchase, due to the lack of customer service. My last Craftsman lasted 15 years with nothing more than a valve adjustment and oil changes..I'd install new spark plugs. By running it multiple times with the choke on, you've probably gas soaked them causing them not to fire/spark properly.
#48
G
gregjo1948
G
gregjo1948
The gas line is probably rubber. Try to get a neoprene line and it won't do that. Gasoline eats rubber.Take fuel line off at filter and blow a little bit of air into line back to tank. With the gas we have know it eats away at the inside of the hose. Put the fuel line back together and try to start. Look for black spot in your filter if it starts. If it does start, it should run OK.
#49
T
TobyU
At least always take the gas to cap off before you do this.
Then of course be careful fuel doesn't blow out but I had a customer call me about a riding lawn mower who had tried to do just this and with the cap on it pressurized too quickly, more than the cap could vent.
He split his under seat gas tank completely open at the seam.
He had to order a new one from Craftsman and it cost him about $85 just to get the tank.
It's also not fun to install because I had to do it.
So be careful about blowing too much pressure back into a gas tank.
T
TobyU
Be very careful about blowing back into the fuel line into the tank.Take fuel line off at filter and blow a little bit of air into line back to tank. With the gas we have know it eats away at the inside of the hose. Put the fuel line back together and try to start. Look for black spot in your filter if it starts. If it does start, it should run OK.
At least always take the gas to cap off before you do this.
Then of course be careful fuel doesn't blow out but I had a customer call me about a riding lawn mower who had tried to do just this and with the cap on it pressurized too quickly, more than the cap could vent.
He split his under seat gas tank completely open at the seam.
He had to order a new one from Craftsman and it cost him about $85 just to get the tank.
It's also not fun to install because I had to do it.
So be careful about blowing too much pressure back into a gas tank.
#50
A
Air4Dave
A
Air4Dave
Even testing fuel tanks at a gas station, in my day, we would only pressurize to 5psi! People, understand that you only need a very small burst of air - even a bicycle pump would do it - to clear out a fuel line, regardless of tank size! Also, the black rubber fuel lines won't last more than a couple years - maybe - unless they're made of butyl or poly. A failed fuel line will just about disintegrate in your fingers.
#51
T
TobyU
Now, the clear vinyl ones or the tinted ones etc yellow faster and get brittle more quickly and will break if you so much as touch them and only two to three years now when they used to last 8 or 10 years before doing this but this is not the case on the rubber ones.
I have dozens of mowers here right now that over 17 to 20 years old with their original fuel lines on them.
These have had this gas and whatever else over the decades of their life.
Some of the fuel line is still supple enough that you see no cracks in it and you can squeeze it with your fingers and pinch it off.
Some, of this age, are hard and I wouldn't dare pinch them at all because frankly, they need replaced.
The new fuel lines I have replaced in the past several years are also holding up quite well.
99% of my fuel line is the standard fuel vapor line off the bulk roll from O'Reilly Auto Parts.
I have no complaints with this at all.
T
TobyU
All the gas that I have used for well over 15 years is 10% ethanol and I also believe the gas has gotten worse and worse over the years as far as quality BUT I have seen no difference in the lifespan of rubber fuel lines.Even testing fuel tanks at a gas station, in my day, we would only pressurize to 5psi! People, understand that you only need a very small burst of air - even a bicycle pump would do it - to clear out a fuel line, regardless of tank size! Also, the black rubber fuel lines won't last more than a couple years - maybe - unless they're made of butyl or poly. A failed fuel line will just about disintegrate in your fingers.
Now, the clear vinyl ones or the tinted ones etc yellow faster and get brittle more quickly and will break if you so much as touch them and only two to three years now when they used to last 8 or 10 years before doing this but this is not the case on the rubber ones.
I have dozens of mowers here right now that over 17 to 20 years old with their original fuel lines on them.
These have had this gas and whatever else over the decades of their life.
Some of the fuel line is still supple enough that you see no cracks in it and you can squeeze it with your fingers and pinch it off.
Some, of this age, are hard and I wouldn't dare pinch them at all because frankly, they need replaced.
The new fuel lines I have replaced in the past several years are also holding up quite well.
99% of my fuel line is the standard fuel vapor line off the bulk roll from O'Reilly Auto Parts.
I have no complaints with this at all.
#52
A
Air4Dave
As a side question - is this fuel vapor line actually called that and does it come in the different sizes required by some systems? I just got a set of 3 fuel lines within a black rubber bushing for a new carb. One of them is a black line and looks like rubber...
A
Air4Dave
Back in the '70's, when unleaded was first coming out - thank you EPA! - carbs mostly, other fuel retaining systems would have the gaskets and seals harden to a point of uselessness and failure. Even on our fuel tankers, we had to replace the seals with the butyl or better yet, Viton seals. They worked for years and gradually, over many years, the scientists in the petroleum industries came up with an additive for use in the fuels that would stop this problem! Long story short, what you have in your mowers that are 17 - 20 years old are comparatively this "new" technology I've spoken to. I'm glad you have found fuel lines that work well!All the gas that I have used for well over 15 years is 10% ethanol and I also believe the gas has gotten worse and worse over the years as far as quality BUT I have seen no difference in the lifespan of rubber fuel lines.
Now, the clear vinyl ones or the tinted ones etc yellow faster and get brittle more quickly and will break if you so much as touch them and only two to three years now when they used to last 8 or 10 years before doing this but this is not the case on the rubber ones.
I have dozens of mowers here right now that over 17 to 20 years old with their original fuel lines on them.
These have had this gas and whatever else over the decades of their life.
Some of the fuel line is still supple enough that you see no cracks in it and you can squeeze it with your fingers and pinch it off.
Some, of this age, are hard and I wouldn't dare pinch them at all because frankly, they need replaced.
The new fuel lines I have replaced in the past several years are also holding up quite well.
99% of my fuel line is the standard fuel vapor line off the bulk roll from O'Reilly Auto Parts.
I have no complaints with this at all.
As a side question - is this fuel vapor line actually called that and does it come in the different sizes required by some systems? I just got a set of 3 fuel lines within a black rubber bushing for a new carb. One of them is a black line and looks like rubber...
#53
J
Joed756
J
Joed756
I would never pressurize a fuel tank. They are not designed to be pressure vessels, pressurizing them is just asking for trouble.
#54
B
bc22
This is the starter needed for this mower: Caltric Starter Compatible with Kohler 3209810 3209810S 32-098-10S
This is the video that led me to the water:
Evidently the first two starters didn't have enough ass to turn the thing over. Sometimes it would, sometimes it would get to the compression point and be too weak to spin it.
B
bc22
My mower was a 2022 model Craftsman T2400. My starter was the first thing they replaced. The one I took off yesterday (2nd starter) was a 2023 and had the model number of 3209810S stamped on it. I watched this video that I will put below and it made me question the starter AGAIN. I ordered the starter in the link below and it fired right up.On your situation, had you have gone to giving it an external fuel source first,
You would have removed the air filter and sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner or a tablespoon of fuel into the intake and then cranked it over.
It would have done one of two things.
It would have either started and continued to run just fine or it would have started and then died after a few seconds.
Then, the proper diagnostic procedure is to repeat this at least three times.
Well - I did this several times...maybe not 3 times in a row (possibly that was my shortfall)...but I got the same result each time...it fired up strong for 2-3 seconds then died. This happened whether I choked it or not. I watched a video on Kevin Caudill's youtube channel about choke adjustment - went out and watched it NOT CLOSE and made the adjustment, It fired and ran a bit rough at first but then started running great. You are correct that maybe I spent money on stuff I did not need - but frankly - this was a hell of learning experience for me - so I have no regrets...it was a $100 classroom experience. The suggestions and information from forum members plus many, many Youtube videos helped me immensely. No regrets! and no apologies needed. Heartfelt thanks to all for the help and explanations !
This is the starter needed for this mower: Caltric Starter Compatible with Kohler 3209810 3209810S 32-098-10S
This is the video that led me to the water:
Evidently the first two starters didn't have enough ass to turn the thing over. Sometimes it would, sometimes it would get to the compression point and be too weak to spin it.
#55
M
mrjohndeere4240
M
mrjohndeere4240
I have a craftsman mower with that same EXACT model engine KT730-3046. Ran it out of gas one day and it never fired back up. Put 2 carburetors on it, I was sent the wrong one the first time. Put a new fuel pump on it, new plugs, new fuel lines, new air filter, changed the oil and oil filter. All to no avail. When It did run it was so rough I was unable to mow with it. It was one month out of warranty when it did this. I bought 2 new coils for it after watching a youtube video. I checked both plugs with an inline tester and neither coil was producing spark. Put them on last night, did a little adjustment on the carburetor. Finally after 8 months I got it right. She runs and mows again!