Export thread

Craftsman mower starting problem

#1

J

jimbir

I have a Craftsmen lawnmower model 917.370601. It’s equipped with a Honda engine model GCV 160 LAO S3A NH1 with a Kehnin #G2ZC2BH24 carburetor.

The only way I can get the thing started is by giving it a 1/2 sec. shot of starting fluid. After it starts, it surges for about 20 seconds and then settles down to continuous operation. I’ve let it run for 15 minutes. After that, I tried to restart it but wouldn’t without the shot of starter fluid.

There is no primer bulb. It has a choke with a curious mode of operation. You move the choke lever to the choke position. When you pull the brake, handle down and, before you can pull the starter rope, the choke lever begins to move to the open position. (I’ve attached a photo of the linkage below.)
1688906649876.png
When the cable from the brake handle is pulled to the right, the actuating pin is also pulled to the right until it contacts the right hand end of the slot in the choke release lever. This happens when the brake handle is pulled approximately 1/4 of it’s travel. As soon as the lever begins to move, the choke begins to open. I’ve bent the actuating pin to the left so that it just touches the left end of the slot thereby delaying the movement of the lever until the brake handle is almost at the end of its travel. I did this because I thought the choke was opening to soon and not being effective.

I’ve replaced the air filter, spark plug, drained the gas tank and carburetor bowl and refilled it 90 octane ethanol free gas. I’ve thoroughly cleaned the carburetor and arranged the gaskets per the diagram I have. None of that helped.

About the choke. I’ve even wired it closed and the engine still won’t start

I’ve been dealing with small engines for 60 years but this one’s got me stymied.

James Birke
North Tonawanda NY.
If anyone has had a similar experience, I sure would like to know how you fixed it!


#2

StarTech

StarTech

I had one like that last year. Ended up replacing the carburetor with a new Honda carburetor. Surprised me how cheap they are from the OEM. It would very cold but nearly impossible to crank after the engine warmed up. Something was definitely wrong with carburetor but I just could not find it.

1688925490934.png

And the way the choke is acting is normal for that style of auto choke.


#3

sgkent

sgkent

there should be no choke when an engine is warm. Choke enriches the mixture for when it is cold. That said, I have read many times here on the forum that Honda carbs are quite reasonably priced.


#4

B

Born2Mow

You most likely left ethanol fuel in the carb over the winter. This will clog the smaller jet which the engine uses to start. On top of the carb is a Phillips head screw that looks like it's doing nothing. Remove that screw and push a fine 0.010" wire through the jet it exposes. Put the screw back. Then start using a fuel stabilizer AND cleaner, like StarTron.


#5

StarTech

StarTech

I thought about that here when I had my problem but that didn't help either.


#6

J

jimbir

Thanks for the reply. Id th
StarTech said:
I had one like that last year. Ended up replacing the carburetor with a new Honda carburetor. Surprised me how cheap they are from the OEM. It would very cold but nearly impossible to crank after the engine warmed up. Something was definitely wrong with carburetor but I just could not find it.

View attachment 65738

And the way the choke is acting is normal for that style of auto choke.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply!
I'm hesitant to spend the money on a new carb.They're not really all that complicated. I completly striped mine and made sure all the fuel and air passages were open and free flowing. The engine starts immeadiatly with a 1/4 sec. shot of either and runs great afterword. That leads me to believe the carb is functioning correctly and I have the gaskets installed correctly. I feel It's got to be something else.

Anyway, is the carb. I should buy?


Thanks. Jim


#7

StarTech

StarTech

I would go by the engine's serial number and the chart I posted. Now it may have been superseded but I would not know until I plugin the PN of the IPL indicated carburetor.

The 16100-Z0L-852 was superseded to 16100-Z0L-853 and the 16100-Z8B-851 is a current PN. Neither supersedes to the 16100-Z0L-862.


#8

J

jimbir

Thanks again for the quick reply.
When I looked at the ad, I realized that wasn't the correct model number. My engine is a GCV160 LAO S3A S/N GJARA 3112113.
Where did you get the chart you posted?
Jim.


#9

StarTech

StarTech

Honda engines - Spare Parts

Honda Engines offers high-quality power units for a wide range of applications such as construction equipment, generators, lawn mowers etc.
www.honda-engines-eu.com www.honda-engines-eu.com


#10

J

jimbir

I'm back... Thanks for the information. I finally got it to where it wants to start. There's a little tab that pivots off the head of the engine. The choke control lever causes it to push against a pin on the choke lever on the carb. That closes the choke. If that tab isn't pointing all the way toward the rear of the engine when you install the carb it won't activate the choke.
The engine will try to start on the first pull but it kicks back ferociously and yanks the cord out of your hand. Have any ideas what might be causing this?
Jim


#11

J

jimbir

Just a quick update...Pulled the flywheel. absolutely nothing wrong with the key way in the wheel or the shaft and the key looks like new.
Jim


#12

S

scoyote

Kick back is valve timing--the carb you want is Hipa 16100-zol-853 -it has the post for the choke sweep arm---Remember that when you set for choke you are moving the sweep the opposite way---so make sure the sweeparm is on the correct side of the pin or you won't be choking at all


#13

F

first pull

jimbir said:
I have a Craftsmen lawnmower model 917.370601. It’s equipped with a Honda engine model GCV 160 LAO S3A NH1 with a Kehnin #G2ZC2BH24 carburetor.

The only way I can get the thing started is by giving it a 1/2 sec. shot of starting fluid. After it starts, it surges for about 20 seconds and then settles down to continuous operation. I’ve let it run for 15 minutes. After that, I tried to restart it but wouldn’t without the shot of starter fluid.

There is no primer bulb. It has a choke with a curious mode of operation. You move the choke lever to the choke position. When you pull the brake, handle down and, before you can pull the starter rope, the choke lever begins to move to the open position. (I’ve attached a photo of the linkage below.)
View attachment 65735
When the cable from the brake handle is pulled to the right, the actuating pin is also pulled to the right until it contacts the right hand end of the slot in the choke release lever. This happens when the brake handle is pulled approximately 1/4 of it’s travel. As soon as the lever begins to move, the choke begins to open. I’ve bent the actuating pin to the left so that it just touches the left end of the slot thereby delaying the movement of the lever until the brake handle is almost at the end of its travel. I did this because I thought the choke was opening to soon and not being effective.

I’ve replaced the air filter, spark plug, drained the gas tank and carburetor bowl and refilled it 90 octane ethanol free gas. I’ve thoroughly cleaned the carburetor and arranged the gaskets per the diagram I have. None of that helped.

About the choke. I’ve even wired it closed and the engine still won’t start

I’ve been dealing with small engines for 60 years but this one’s got me stymied.

James Birke
North Tonawanda NY.
If anyone has had a similar experience, I sure would like to know how you fixed it!
Click to expand...
Fuel shutoff switch on the carburetor


#14

J

jimbir

thanks for the reply. I had the carburetor completely apart and didn't see anything like that. There is a fuel shut off valve but, that's turned on.
Jim


#15

J

jimbir

scoyote said:
Kick back is valve timing--the carb you want is Hipa 16100-zol-853 -it has the post for the choke sweep arm---Remember that when you set for choke you are moving the sweep the opposite way---so make sure the sweeparm is on the correct side of the pin or you won't be choking at all
Click to expand...

scoyote said:
thanks for the reply. If you go back to post number 10 on this thread, you'll see where I discovered that fact.you will also see that, after I corrected that mistake, the engine tries to start but, it kicks back with enough force to pull the starter grip out of my hand. In post #11, you'll see that I found nothing wrong with the flywheel, key, or the shaft.
Click to expand...


#16

F

first pull

jimbir said:
Just a quick update...Pulled the flywheel. absolutely nothing wrong with the key way in the wheel or the shaft and the key looks like new.
Jim
Click to expand...
I am sorry. I had a different honda engine confused with yours


#17

S

scoyote

Flywheel key can be intact but valves out of adjustment?Adjust the valve lash 4 thou--I don't know of any other reason that the starter rope wotld snap back


#18

F

first pull

scoyote said:
Flywheel key can be intact but valves out of adjustment?Adjust the valve lash 4 thou--I don't know of any other reason that the starter rope wotld snap back
Click to expand...
Could be a vacuum issue also


#19

F

first pull

scoyote said:
Kick back is valve timing--the carb you want is Hipa 16100-zol-853 -it has the post for the choke sweep arm---Remember that when you set for choke you are moving the sweep the opposite way---so make sure the sweeparm is on the correct side of the pin or you won't be choking at all
Click to expand...
Agreed on the valve timing. Check the clearance. It has to be right on the money


#20

J

jimbir

I checked the valve lash. The intake was right on at .006. The exhaust was about .012. I set it to spec, at .008. Didn't make any difference with the kickback. Does anyone when, in relation to the TDC mark on the flywheel, are the valves supposed to open and close?
Jim B.


#21

B

Born2Mow

jimbir said:
Does anyone when, in relation to the TDC mark on the flywheel, are the valves supposed to open and close?
Click to expand...
You'll want to verify 2 separate events to be able to trust the results:
1. With a screwdriver down the sparkplug hole, verify that the piston is indeed at TDC when the mark says so. (This will insure you can believe the marks.)
2. Then, with the engine at TDC between the exhaust and intake strokes (both valves slightly open) verify that the clearance goes out of each valve at approximately the same distance from TDC. (IOW, if the Intake gets tight about 1" away from the TDC mark, then the Exhaust will get tight about 1" away, but on the opposite side of TDC.) This is because...

oaW9YCPm.jpg


#22

J

jimbir

Thanks for your reply and information. I need to comfirm that the TDC mark on the flywheel is supossed to point at the rear left ( when looking at the engine from the front ) cover mounting post. Is that correct?


#23

B

Born2Mow

The flywheel is supposedly coupled to the crank & piston. Whatever the flywheel mark is pointing at with the piston at TDC should be the stationary mark. (This is really just the inverse of Event #1 from above.)

Understand that IF the piston is at TDC and you find the stationary mark more than 3/32" away from the flywheel mark, then that may be an indication of your root issue.


Footer Links 1

Top