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I've mowed with my new Komannder a few times and now have some limited experience.

1 - As reported in another post, I removed the very dangerouse roll bar. No need for detail here.
2 - The cut is better than my old Wheelhorse tractor. I run a 48" mulch deck. Just after mowing the lawn looks like crap. It has tons of wheel marks and matted down grass. Looks like an event had lawn parking for cars. The next day most of the grass has popped back up for an even looking cut. The weight and ease of moving around (more tracking) is the cause.
3 - Bank mowing is difficult. The published limit is 15*, but it barely makes that. Even though the engine is low slung and center of gravity is low, the rig has trouble with traversing a bank or slope. The front wheels are no help in holding the bank position because they swivel. In that case, the front end heads down hill and can't be stopped with rear wheel control; it just dives down. The other condition is where the back wheels loose traction and the *** end slides down hill. The 15* spec is probably for straight up/down hill. But there are layouts where that is not possible; I have one of those deals.
4 - I still haven't come up with a new mow pattern for the ZTM. I didn't think it would be that different from the old tractor. Still working on some yard areas.
5 - Mower starts good and runs well.
6 - The mulch blades that were installed are very dull. The cutting edge had a peened rolled over feel. Looking at them before ever using it, I thought maybe they were made that way for safety reasons (hey, they put a roll bar on it), intending to be sharpened at installation. Need to have that checked out.
7 - Seat and suspension feels real good.
8 - Hand controls are fine. Tool/cup holder has a nice pocket that holds my 1/2 gallon glass water jug nicely.
9 - I like the deck adjustment system; good range and positive positions.

Would I buy it again? Maybe/maybe not. Not really sold on the zero turn deal just yet. Has too many draw-backs such as close trimming, slopes, traction and grass matting.

My assessment on the same points:

1. Also removed the ROPS
2. Cut is excellent compared to my old Gravely rider
3. Don't have much in the way of steep banks--I have a small, slight bank in which it gets a little squirrelly going on a diagonal, but that was expected. If I go parallel or perpendicular with the slope it's fine.
4. I try different patterns each time--I have a few favorites and try to vary it. I typically hit 1-2 laps on the outer perimeter, and then cut in vertically, horizontally, or at a 45 degree diagonal.
5. Starting--I almost always have to put the throttle into choke to start it, even when it's warm. But doing this, it starts right up and runs strong.
6. My blades (standard ones) are quite sharp.
7. Seat is comfortable--I don't have the suspension, but I can see how it's valuable.
8. Ergonomics--one of the reasons I went with the Kommander
9. Deck adjustment--I actually thought the pedal was a bit stiff (48" deck too) so I had the dealer throw in the Lift Assist Kit. It helps.

The big risk for me is the B&S engine. I struggled over this, but thought if I maintain it properly perhaps I would get years of trouble-free use out of it. Had it come with a Kawasaki, it'd have been a slam-dunk. Only time will tell. Would I buy again? Yes! Traditional garden tractors seem pointless to me for mowing now having spent a month on a ZT--I'll never go back to mowing with one.

Good comments, Ragner.

My thoughts...

• 1. Performance: This is what I like the most. Extremely powerful, almost can't bog the thing down.
• 2. The cut is excellent. I need to get a picture of my back field which is anything buy smooth like a lawn BUT when I am done cutting... it looks like one.
• 3. Love the seat.
• 4. Quality. I love the way is is constructed, simple and strong. Every time I go by a Bad Boy I'm glad with with my purchase.
• 5. The lift system could not be simpler.
• 6. It has saved me a ton of time. The speed while cutting and a 54" deck is crazy great.
• 7. The thing just looks great.
• The DUMB STUFF- The ROP will kill you, pull that frigg'n roll bar OFF. The TIRES are a concern do to their size, I have tried to find tubes-no such luck.

Stay safe guys...

Mike

Duckman said:

My thoughts...

• 1. Performance: This is what I like the most. Extremely powerful, almost can't bog the thing down.
• 2. The cut is excellent. I need to get a picture of my back field which is anything buy smooth like a lawn BUT when I am done cutting... it looks like one.
• 3. Love the seat.
• 4. Quality. I love the way is is constructed, simple and strong. Every time I go by a Bad Boy I'm glad with with my purchase.
• 5. The lift system could not be simpler.
• 6. It has saved me a ton of time. The speed while cutting and a 54" deck is crazy great.
• 7. The thing just looks great.
• The DUMB STUFF- The ROP will kill you, pull that frigg'n roll bar OFF. The TIRES are a concern do to their size, I have tried to find tubes-no such luck.

Stay safe guys...

Mike

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Do you mind sharing what you gave out-the-door for that ZG127S??? All you guys seem to be very happy with the Komanders and after the rocky start of the new model year with the gas tank leak and a few other reported glitches I must admit I was hesitant to embrace this Kubota high-end Residential ZTR entry to their line of ZTR's. I've never considered Kubota to be anything but a top-of-the-line product and am curious what it took you money-wise to get into the 54" Kommander flagship. I have the feeling that over the next few years other manufacturers(like my Gravely) are going to have to raise the bar to stay in competition with the Kommander and some other new kids on the ZTR block!!

P.S.
Yeah, just like you....I almost pulled the trigger on a Bad Boy Outlaw but am glad I didn't. They have a heavy duty construction, but overall they're "iffy".

djdicetn said:

Do you mind sharing what you gave out-the-door for that ZG127S??? All you guys seem to be very happy with the Komanders and after the rocky start of the new model year with the gas tank leak and a few other reported glitches I must admit I was hesitant to embrace this Kubota high-end Residential ZTR entry to their line of ZTR's. I've never considered Kubota to be anything but a top-of-the-line product and am curious what it took you money-wise to get into the 54" Kommander flagship. I have the feeling that over the next few years other manufacturers(like my Gravely) are going to have to raise the bar to stay in competition with the Kommander and some other new kids on the ZTR block!!

P.S.
Yeah, just like you....I almost pulled the trigger on a Bad Boy Outlaw but am glad I didn't. They have a heavy duty construction, but overall they're "iffy".

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When I got my 124E, the dealer wouldn't budge on pricing--said they couldn't otherwise Kubota corporate wouldn't give them incentive/deal with the introductory pricing ($500 off MSRP which for me was $4,499). They were willing to deal on the extras/options, etc and threw in the lift assist at no cost. The Kubota site lists the 127S intro price as $5749, with standard MSRP as $6300.

As I may have said elsewhere, I entered into shopping intent on buying a Gravely, but the Kubota raised the bar on pricing, ergonomics and usability while maintaining high quality.

Example 1: The one and only drink holder on the Gravely was halfway behind the seat, and I'd have to contort myself to reach back there--whereas the Kubota has two, one being easy to reach AND has storage areas for my phone, tennis balls I pick up, and storing my ear protectors.

Example 2: The placement of the deck lift pedal on the Gravely was off to the side--I'm 6'2" and to press it I had to raise the right hand lever, whereas it's in the middle on the Kubota.

Example 3: The gas tank on the Kommander is under the seat, meaning a lower center of gravity. And its a translucent tank with a small window below the seat which lets you see how much fuel is left. Genius!

Overall, the Gravely ZT HD I wanted just seemed a "blah" to me compared to the Kubota. I tried not to let this be a factor, but the Kommander just looks really good and I'll admit, it helped to break the tie.

Ragnar4841 said:

When I got my 124E, the dealer wouldn't budge on pricing--said they couldn't otherwise Kubota corporate wouldn't give them incentive/deal with the introductory pricing ($500 off MSRP which for me was $4,499). They were willing to deal on the extras/options, etc and threw in the lift assist at no cost. The Kubota site lists the 127S intro price as $5749, with standard MSRP as $6300.

As I may have said elsewhere, I entered into shopping intent on buying a Gravely, but the Kubota raised the bar on pricing, ergonomics and usability while maintaining high quality.

Example 1: The one and only drink holder on the Gravely was halfway behind the seat, and I'd have to contort myself to reach back there--whereas the Kubota has two, one being easy to reach AND has storage areas for my phone, tennis balls I pick up, and storing my ear protectors.

Example 2: The placement of the deck lift pedal on the Gravely was off to the side--I'm 6'2" and to press it I had to raise the right hand lever, whereas it's in the middle on the Kubota.

Example 3: The gas tank on the Kommander is under the seat, meaning a lower center of gravity. And its a translucent tank with a small window below the seat which lets you see how much fuel is left. Genius!

Overall, the Gravely ZT HD I wanted just seemed a "blah" to me compared to the Kubota. I tried not to let this be a factor, but the Kommander just looks really good and I'll admit, it helped to break the tie.

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Well, I think you provided the pricing comparisons I was interested in. Basically, the "regular"(not introductory) MSRP of your 124E is exactly the same as the MSRP for the Gravely ZT HD 48. But the 127S MSRP of $6300 is quite a bit more than the Gravely ZT HD 52(not enough to me for the 2" deck size difference) with the MSRP of the Gravely being $5100. As far as the 3 examples you gave, I'll admit that Gravely should have put the drink holder on the front of the left side gas tank(like it is on my Pro-Turn) instead of on the right side behind the contols, the deck adjustment is a fairly minor personal preference(particularly for your comfort), but I'd actually prefer the "gas gauge" on the Gravely ZT HD over the "window beneath the seat" view of the translucent gas tank on yours(my experience with those kind are that after a few years of gasoline discoloration of the plastic tank you will be hard pressed to tell how much gas is actually left in the tank after mowing). Since you threw out several Gravely ZT HD/Kubota Kommander comparisons, I would add that the chain hung deck on the Gravely would be a preference for me versus the parallel-linkage rigid type on the Kommander; the cast-iron(3yr warranted) commercial spindles on the Gravely...no specs on the Kubota so I am assuming aluminum housings; the 6gal fuel tank on the Gravely versus the 4.3gal on the Kommander and the 13" front tires on the Gravely versus the 11" on the Kommander. Based upon the differences I just pointed out, I personally would still have gone with the Gravely ZT HD before the Kubota Kommander. Indeed a consideration I'm sure you had was the 4year Warranty on the Kubota versus the 3year on the Gravely which is indeed an important difference. I'm just wondering why Kubota did not also include a "Commercial Warranty" for the Kommanders which would have influenced some buyers that plan on using their ZTR for a lawn care business.

P.S.
Aside from the differences we pointed out, the Kubota Kommander and the Gravely ZT HD are very comparable machines and both worthy of consideration by someone shopping for a high-end residential ZTR!!!!

You're correct in that the examples I cited are relatively minor, but they helped brake the tie. Had the Kommander been full price, I very well may have gone with the Gravely. I'm convinced I would've been equally happy with the ZT HD.

Ragnar4841 said:

You're correct in that the examples I cited are relatively minor, but they helped brake the tie. Had the Kommander been full price, I very well may have gone with the Gravely. I'm convinced I would've been equally happy with the ZT HD.

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Yep, both fine machines and I'm certain you'll have no complaints for many years to come with that Kubota!!! I kinda went back-and-forth in several threads with users Rivets and Jekjr(who are convinced...at least I think Jekjr is...that there simply aren't any brands worthy of buying except Kubotas). But they have good cause to believe in what is essentially quality machinery. At least you aren't "close-minded" and know that there were probably "several" other ZTR's similar to your Kommander that would have served you just as well. Bottom line, it's all about personal preferences.

I'm new to this forum, but I've been lurking before buying the ZTM. I had to choose between Toro, John Deere and Kubota. Ended up with the Kubota, JD was second choice and Toro third.

I have mowed half my yard a week before buying the Kubota with a Toro (Kawa 22hp engine) and another half with my ZG123S and the power is much better in the Kubota, even though it only has 1hp more. This can be because of a lot of factors, deeper deck, etc. The grass was very high (over 10 inches I'd say). With the Toro I would bog it down to a stall where the Kubota would continue, albeit not going full speed.

I was going for the 124E and ended with the 123S as the 124E were out of stock and there was only one 123S left. I really like the suspension seat I must say. I also noticed that the Kohler engine was probably their better engine because the service intervals are every 100 hours where the B&S is 50 hours. Plus B&S has a 5h oil change where the Kohler is 100h (I will do one at 25h just to be safe).

Why do you guys hate the ROPS? I want to install a sunshade on it so no intention of removing it. I need to be careful around come trees with low hanging branches, but otherwise I don't mind the ROPS.

My terrain has slopes and I had to adjust my pattern significantly in order to deal with them. Can't go sideways I really have to go up or down, that's my main caveat of using a ZTM (used a standard tractor before). But the speed is so much higher and going around trees so much faster than it compensates for everything else.

I also find the gas tank to be too small, I hate refueling!

We will buy the lift assist ($25) as the pedal is quite heavy for my girlfriend to use.

Another thing is that it's quite loud, louder than the Toro and other mowers around hehe.

Anyway, these are my first thoughts, I will post more next week

Why do you guys hate the ROPS? I want to install a sunshade on it so no intention of removing it. I need to be careful around come trees with low hanging branches, but otherwise I don't mind the ROPS.

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Read here>>>>> http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/kubota-forum/17527-roll-bar-done-my-rig-gone.html

If you use it on a hill or incline or have no over hanging branches, this may not apply. Trust me here, until you have a branch clip the top and raise the front up like a dragster you have no idea what we are trying to say. WHEN (not IF) it happens to you, you will be cleaning that nice new seat.

I also find the gas tank to be too small, I hate refueling!

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Really... I guess it depends. I have 2.5 acres and have to fill it up every other time. To me that's great. My old LX-188 ate gas nearly twice as fast with 11 less HP.

We will buy the lift assist ($25) as the pedal is quite heavy for my girlfriend to use.

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If you got it for 25.00, I think that might be close to cost. You got a good deal. HOWEVER it must be installed by correctly, it not your deck will get stuck in the up position and frustration will ensue.

Another thing is that it's quite loud, louder than the Toro and other mowers around hehe.

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Oh so true...but think about...blades going at 1800rpms. I thought the same thing but what that gives you is a great cut with A LOT OF POWA. When your lawn and/or field gets a long...trust it will plow through it. AND MAKE IT LOOK GREAT. I have a field that always looked like a field after I mowed it, now it looks like a lawn. I'll take a bit extra noise for that.

Have fun and be safe...

Mike

Duckman said:

Oh so true...but think about...blades going at 1800rpms. I thought the same thing but what that gives you is a great cut with A LOT OF POWA. When your lawn and/or field gets a long...trust it will plow through it. AND MAKE IT LOOK GREAT. I have a field that always looked like a field after I mowed it, now it looks like a lawn. I'll take a bit extra noise for that.

Click to expand...

well in the picture I posted int he pther thread, the grass was 10-12" long right before. We don't have mulching kit so my father had fun passing a second time at full speed to re-mulch the cut grass. It looks like a real lawn now.

I agree the ROPS is scary going aroung some trees, I was very careful but I guess it is bound to happen.. Now I'm not sure if I will cut the branches or remove the ROPS

BeachBoy said:

I'm new to this forum, but I've been lurking before buying the ZTM. I had to choose between Toro, John Deere and Kubota. Ended up with the Kubota, JD was second choice and Toro third.

I have mowed half my yard a week before buying the Kubota with a Toro (Kawa 22hp engine) and another half with my ZG123S and the power is much better in the Kubota, even though it only has 1hp more. This can be because of a lot of factors, deeper deck, etc. The grass was very high (over 10 inches I'd say). With the Toro I would bog it down to a stall where the Kubota would continue, albeit not going full speed.

I was going for the 124E and ended with the 123S as the 124E were out of stock and there was only one 123S left. I really like the suspension seat I must say. I also noticed that the Kohler engine was probably their better engine because the service intervals are every 100 hours where the B&S is 50 hours. Plus B&S has a 5h oil change where the Kohler is 100h (I will do one at 25h just to be safe).

Why do you guys hate the ROPS? I want to install a sunshade on it so no intention of removing it. I need to be careful around come trees with low hanging branches, but otherwise I don't mind the ROPS.

My terrain has slopes and I had to adjust my pattern significantly in order to deal with them. Can't go sideways I really have to go up or down, that's my main caveat of using a ZTM (used a standard tractor before). But the speed is so much higher and going around trees so much faster than it compensates for everything else.

I also find the gas tank to be too small, I hate refueling!

We will buy the lift assist ($25) as the pedal is quite heavy for my girlfriend to use.

Another thing is that it's quite loud, louder than the Toro and other mowers around hehe.

Anyway, these are my first thoughts, I will post more next week

Click to expand...

If I were you I wouldn't go 100 hours between oil changes no matter what Kohler says.....most engine mfg's recommend every 50 hours. I like you opted for a sunshade on my ZTR and kept the ROPS(you can see a pic in the link below where I describe the light kit I installed). I "Know" my yard and am sensitive to overhead obstacles where I have to be careful with the ROPS/sunshade...and the benefit of no sunscreen is worth it:0) The small fuel tank would bother me too...makes me glad my Gravely has a 9gal capacity and after reading user Duckman's post I'm VERY happy with my Kawasaki FX691V 22hp engine(I have about a 1.5 acre lot and I use about 1 gal of gas per mowing..about 4.5 to 5 cuts per each tank that has 4.5 gals in each). I don't have any problems adjusting my deck and I had polio in my right leg(I could NOT even raise the deck at all on the Bad Boy Outlaw I looked at last fall that had a monster 5gauge deck). And the Kawa is quieter than the 24hp B & S Intek that was on my previous lawn tractor. The more posts I read....the happier I get with my Gravely:0)

Here's the link to my ZTR pics:

http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/build-yourself/18564-ztr-light-kit.html

I don't plan on going 100h, probably just do it every winter.

the fuel tank is 4.2gal, I still have to see how big I can mow with that, maybe I used a lot because the grass was very long.

The Kawa 22hp on the Toro was definitively much weaker than the Kohler on the Kubota, unless it's all the other factors that makes the Kubota "feel" stronger... But aside from less engine noise, the Toro had a very hard time mowing the same type of long grass than the Kubota..

BeachBoy said:

I don't plan on going 100h, probably just do it every winter.

the fuel tank is 4.2gal, I still have to see how big I can mow with that, maybe I used a lot because the grass was very long.

The Kawa 22hp on the Toro was definitively much weaker than the Kohler on the Kubota, unless it's all the other factors that makes the Kubota "feel" stronger... But aside from less engine noise, the Toro had a very hard time mowing the same type of long grass than the Kubota..

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What "series" was that Kawa on the Toro(FR=Residential, FS=Heavy Duty and FX=Commercial). Or...what Toro mower was it(Timecutter SS/MX or Titan)?? There's a big difference in torque between those different Kawa's. Mine(22hp/726cc) is the FX691V Commercial Kawasaki and I've never heard it even strain or the deck sound like it was bogging down when cutting tall or wet grass. That's the first time I've ever seen a complaint about Kawa cutting power.
P.S.
That's a smart move....with the price of oil & filters versus the price of a ZTR I'll probably change mine every season regardless of the hours as well!!

djdicetn said:

What "series" was that Kawa on the Toro(FR=Residential, FS=Heavy Duty and FX=Commercial). Or...what Toro mower was it(Timecutter SS/MX or Titan)?? There's a big difference in torque between those different Kawa's. Mine(22hp/726cc) is the FX691V Commercial Kawasaki and I've never heard it even strain or the deck sound like it was bogging down when cutting tall or wet grass. That's the first time I've ever seen a complaint about Kawa cutting power.

Click to expand...

it was a timecutter, so not a pro model, that's probably why it was much weaker.

BeachBoy said:

I'm new to this forum, but I've been lurking before buying the ZTM. I had to choose between Toro, John Deere and Kubota. Ended up with the Kubota, JD was second choice and Toro third.

I have mowed half my yard a week before buying the Kubota with a Toro (Kawa 22hp engine) and another half with my ZG123S and the power is much better in the Kubota, even though it only has 1hp more. This can be because of a lot of factors, deeper deck, etc. The grass was very high (over 10 inches I'd say). With the Toro I would bog it down to a stall where the Kubota would continue, albeit not going full speed.

I was going for the 124E and ended with the 123S as the 124E were out of stock and there was only one 123S left. I really like the suspension seat I must say. I also noticed that the Kohler engine was probably their better engine because the service intervals are every 100 hours where the B&S is 50 hours. Plus B&S has a 5h oil change where the Kohler is 100h (I will do one at 25h just to be safe).

Why do you guys hate the ROPS? I want to install a sunshade on it so no intention of removing it. I need to be careful around come trees with low hanging branches, but otherwise I don't mind the ROPS.

My terrain has slopes and I had to adjust my pattern significantly in order to deal with them. Can't go sideways I really have to go up or down, that's my main caveat of using a ZTM (used a standard tractor before). But the speed is so much higher and going around trees so much faster than it compensates for everything else.

I also find the gas tank to be too small, I hate refueling!

We will buy the lift assist ($25) as the pedal is quite heavy for my girlfriend to use.

Another thing is that it's quite loud, louder than the Toro and other mowers around hehe.

Anyway, these are my first thoughts, I will post more next week

Click to expand...

Congrats! Hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine! For me, I have a several smaller trees with low-hanging limbs in my mostly-flat yard--the ROPS just slowed me down and offered more risk than reward, so off it came.

I do agree with the gas tank comment. While 4.2 gal seems big, running at full throttle uses that gas up quickly--I am burning through fuel much faster than with my previous tractor. But for me, it just means topping off before I mow every week--not used to having to do that, but no big deal.

I got the lift assist kit as well--it takes some adjustment to get it right (and where I set it, I can only get the deck down to a 2" cut which is shorter than I'll ever need), but it helps make the pedal a bit easier to push.

And yes, LOUD. But the loudness comes once I turn the PTO on--just running the engine by itself isn't too bad. Bought myself a good pair of earmuffs.

Ragnar4841 said:

Congrats! Hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine! For me, I have a several smaller trees with low-hanging limbs in my mostly-flat yard--the ROPS just slowed me down and offered more risk than reward, so off it came.

I do agree with the gas tank comment. While 4.2 gal seems big, running at full throttle uses that gas up quickly--I am burning through fuel much faster than with my previous tractor. But for me, it just means topping off before I mow every week--not used to having to do that, but no big deal.

I got the lift assist kit as well--it takes some adjustment to get it right (and where I set it, I can only get the deck down to a 2" cut which is shorter than I'll ever need), but it helps make the pedal a bit easier to push.

And yes, LOUD. But the loudness comes once I turn the PTO on--just running the engine by itself isn't too bad. Bought myself a good pair of earmuffs.

Click to expand...

Ragnar4841(And yes, LOUD. But the loudness comes once I turn the PTO on--just running the engine by itself isn't too bad. Bought myself a good pair of earmuffs. ),

I wear hearing aids(of course not when mowing:0)...but I asked my Audiologist whether I needed to wear ear protection when mowing to prevent further damage to my hearing(my next door neighbor ALWAYS puts ear plugs in his ears when he mows). My Audiologist said that with almost all lawn mower small engines and decks, that he would only recommend hearing protection if you mowed yards for a living and were subjected to that noise level constantly for 8 hours/day or more. He said for residential use where you won't be mowing more than 2 hours or so each time you mow, that the decibels were not dangerous enough to have an adverse effect on your hearing. Of course, if the noise bothers you personally, by all means you should wear those earmuffs but they aren't really necessary if protecting your hearing is your concern.

djdicetn said:

Ragnar4841(And yes, LOUD. But the loudness comes once I turn the PTO on--just running the engine by itself isn't too bad. Bought myself a good pair of earmuffs. ),

I wear hearing aids(of course not when mowing:0)...but I asked my Audiologist whether I needed to wear ear protection when mowing to prevent further damage to my hearing(my next door neighbor ALWAYS puts ear plugs in his ears when he mows). My Audiologist said that with almost all lawn mower small engines and decks, that he would only recommend hearing protection if you mowed yards for a living and were subjected to that noise level constantly for 8 hours/day or more. He said for residential use where you won't be mowing more than 2 hours or so each time you mow, that the decibels were not dangerous enough to have an adverse effect on your hearing. Of course, if the noise bothers you personally, by all means you should wear those earmuffs but they aren't really necessary if protecting your hearing is your concern.

Click to expand...

I don't see how that's possible given as loud as my Kubota is--maybe your audiologist is trying to drum up some new customers . On my old Gravely rider, I could get away with foam plugs. But the first time on the ZT, my ears were ringing after 30 mins. with the plugs, hence I bought the earmuffs.

Regardless, they make noise while mowing on the ZT much more tolerable.