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Cheetah II Hydro Pump Drive Belt Failure

#1

Z

ZO6ZOOM

Hello Everyone. I purchased a new Cheetah II 72" with the Kaw EFI back in June of 2021 for residential use. I mow about 5 acres. In 2022, I had my first drive belt failure at about 30 hours. I put a new belt on and it lasted about 10 hours and failed again. I took it to the dealer for service and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I finished out the season. In 2023, I had two more drive belt failures and took the mower to a different dealer. They said my pulleys were out of alignment and they replaced tensioner bearings and adjusted tensioner height. The mower was at 89 hours. Now, 2024, first cut of the year, another belt failure at 101 hours. The belts are all wearing down width- wise to about half of a new one and the nubs are worn down on the inside. Sometimes they break or just too lose to work. I took the mower to the dealer who repaired it last and this is where it currently sits. The dealer called me and asked me if I store it in a barn with a dirt floor. I said no, I keep it in a 40 foot shipping container. He said "the pulleys look like it sat at the bottom of the ocean for 20 years and all the drive pulleys need replaced" for $1,300. My warranty is up in June but he said this wasn't covered. He was going to make some calls. I called SCAG and they were also going to make some calls and get pictures. I asked SCAG if the pulleys were plated to prevent corrosion. He told me the coating may have worn off because of the alignment issue. Now I wait. I kept my Kubota diesel zero turn in this container for 6 years without issue. push mowers, snow blower and the 46" Cub Cadet tractor from Home Depot I had to buy as a back up when the SCAG breaks down. I know containers sometimes sweat inside but I don't see corrosion on my other stuff I keep in there. Thanks for reading. I'm just really disgusted.
Bernie


#2

R

Rivets

I would keep Scag on speed dial. Make sure you document ever time you call them, name time, explanation, etc. Something smells fishy with the dealers you’re working with. I don’t like their explanations.


#3

I

ILENGINE

Agree Rivets. Could be something as simple as a rough area on a pulley that is filing the belt down. Had a rider years ago that had issues with damaging the belt because of paint that had partially chipped off of the pulley in the groove and was acting like a knife to the belt.


#4

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

ILENGINE said:
Agree Rivets. Could be something as simple as a rough area on a pulley that is filing the belt down. Had a rider years ago that had issues with damaging the belt because of paint that had partially chipped off of the pulley in the groove and was acting like a knife to the belt.
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I have used a wire wheel on rusty pulleys and spindles more than once to minimize rough areas and therefore keeping the belt from wearing. Belts should literally last for years and many hours of run time. Rust on pulleys and spindles is not considered a manufacturer defect. How could Scag be liable for rust, unless it is an actual alignment issue?


#5

I

ILENGINE

Tiger Small Engine said:
I have used a wire wheel on rusty pulleys and spindles more than once to minimize rough areas and therefore keeping the belt from wearing. Belts should literally last for years and many hours of run time. Rust on pulleys and spindles is not considered a manufacturer defect. How could Scag be liable for rust, unless it is an actual alignment issue?
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Rust not manufacturer issue. But paint in the belt groove can cause all kinds of havoc on belts and should be considered a manufacturing issue, not a defect in quality but in workmanship. But I say the OP either has a belt alignment issue or could be something like welding spatter in a pulley groove that people are not seeing.


#6

M

MParr

Something isn’t right. An alignment issue? Rusty pulleys?
If there is an alignment issue, the deck could be warped. I wonder if either dealer put a straight edge on the deck surface?


#7

StarTech

StarTech

Most pulleys I have seen on Scag ZTRs are cast iron so no coatings just highly polished glaze from belt wear. But the Cheetah having a vertical setup the hydro may be just galvanized steel but even develop a highly polish glaze from belt wear.

Let's just make sure we talking motion drive pulleys or deck pulleys or is it both?

Yes high moisture will cause the pulleys to rust when equipment is put away wet or in a high moisture area. Have you the humidity level in the storage container? Or are you near a high salty air area? Salt will attract moisture. Also is this shipping container just sitting on the ground? Might want to install some venting with solar powered fans to keep air moving, lowing the humidity inside the container.

Most warranties only cover defects in workmanship. They are not responsible for storage issues.


#8

Z

ZO6ZOOM

Thank You everyone for your input. The dealer called me Friday and has not heard from SCAG yet. I'm in Northeast Ohio so no saltwater here. I have not checked the humidity on the container but I will do that. The problem is with the motion drive pulleys. The container has factory vents, but I will look into solar fans or other options. I would think the pulleys would have some type of corrosion resistant coating on them or maybe stainless steel.


#9

Z

ZO6ZOOM

I just got a call from the dealer and SCAG will not cover the repair. I'm not surprised. I still don't believe that rust was the reason for the repeated belt failures, but hopefully a new set of pulleys will correct the problem.


#10

StarTech

StarTech

Rust is an abrasive and it will wear out and otherwise damage belts.

It is just like paper can wear out stainless steel paper guides on printers.


#11

R

Rivets

Something doesn’t seem right to me. Four belt failures within 100 hours, even though the first dealer didn’t see a rust problem. I agree rust might cause this, but it can also be a cop out for poor diagnostics. I’m puzzled why the dealer is making it so easy for the manufacturer. Second, other is stored in the same container with no problems. Personally I would be contacting Scag and ask for a better explanation as to why they are denying you warranty. Make sure you have the claim number from the dealer who told you your claim was denied. He should have a claim number for you to reference. Wouldn’t be the first time a dealer didn’t want to go through the work to help the customer.


#12

I

ILENGINE

Rivets said:
Something doesn’t seem right to me. Four belt failures within 100 hours, even though the first dealer didn’t see a rust problem. I agree rust might cause this, but it can also be a cop out for poor diagnostics. I’m puzzled why the dealer is making it so easy for the manufacturer. Second, other is stored in the same container with no problems. Personally I would be contacting Scag and ask for a better explanation as to why they are denying you warranty. Make sure you have the claim number from the dealer who told you your claim was denied. He should have a claim number for you to reference. Wouldn’t be the first time a dealer didn’t want to go through the work to help the customer.
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Totally agree. I am not buying the rust story unless those pulleys are deep pitted with rust.


#13

homer888

homer888

ZO6ZOOM said:
Hello Everyone. I purchased a new Cheetah II 72" with the Kaw EFI back in June of 2021 for residential use. I mow about 5 acres. In 2022, I had my first drive belt failure at about 30 hours. I put a new belt on and it lasted about 10 hours and failed again. I took it to the dealer for service and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I finished out the season. In 2023, I had two more drive belt failures and took the mower to a different dealer. They said my pulleys were out of alignment and they replaced tensioner bearings and adjusted tensioner height. The mower was at 89 hours. Now, 2024, first cut of the year, another belt failure at 101 hours. The belts are all wearing down width- wise to about half of a new one and the nubs are worn down on the inside. Sometimes they break or just too lose to work. I took the mower to the dealer who repaired it last and this is where it currently sits. The dealer called me and asked me if I store it in a barn with a dirt floor. I said no, I keep it in a 40 foot shipping container. He said "the pulleys look like it sat at the bottom of the ocean for 20 years and all the drive pulleys need replaced" for $1,300. My warranty is up in June but he said this wasn't covered. He was going to make some calls. I called SCAG and they were also going to make some calls and get pictures. I asked SCAG if the pulleys were plated to prevent corrosion. He told me the coating may have worn off because of the alignment issue. Now I wait. I kept my Kubota diesel zero turn in this container for 6 years without issue. push mowers, snow blower and the 46" Cub Cadet tractor from Home Depot I had to buy as a back up when the SCAG breaks down. I know containers sometimes sweat inside but I don't see corrosion on my other stuff I keep in there. Thanks for reading. I'm just really disgusted.
Bernie
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#14

homer888

homer888

I retired from making Scag.I would call R&D or Customer Service at the factory.Scag is made by MOM(Metal craft of Mayville) in Mayville Wi. 8 miles away they make the John Deere(Horicon Wi)


#15

S

Shady oak

That’s crazy. I have and had 4 kubotas over the years, none with less than 1300 hrs at the time of this writing. Have never replaced a belt or a mower deck bearing in one of them. Taking out a belt in 30 hrs is not rust or humidity. It would seem that even some misalignment would not suffice?


#16

Z

ZO6ZOOM

Shady oak said:
That’s crazy. I have and had 4 kubotas over the years, none with less than 1300 hrs at the time of this writing. Have never replaced a belt or a mower deck bearing in one of them. Taking out a belt in 30 hrs is not rust or humidity. It would seem that even some misalignment would not suffice?
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What's sad is I sold my 10 year old Kubota ZD326S for no reason other than I wanted a new mower and I wanted the SCAG Cheetah. The Kubota never broke down on me and ran like a tank.


#17

Z

ZO6ZOOM

I sent SCAG customer service an e-mail last Friday morning. Still waiting for a response.


#18

Z

ZO6ZOOM

homer888 said:
I retired from making Scag.I would call R&D or Customer Service at the factory.Scag is made by MOM(Metal craft of Mayville) in Mayville Wi. 8 miles away they make the John Deere(Horicon Wi)
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Thank You Homer. I called SCAG tech support a couple years ago when the second belt broke and he told me it may be a piece of twig or stone stuck in the pulley, but without seeing it he didn't know for sure. It seems I'm at the fate of the dealer and since I didn't buy it from them I'm sure they're not going to go above and beyond for me. I bought the mower from an Amish dealership, this was my first mistake. Nice people but if it involves more than a regular PM service forget it. They flat out told me they can't find anything wrong with it.


#19

Z

ZO6ZOOM

I just want to let everybody know that I just got a call from the dealer and they said SCAG was going to cover the total repair.


#20

R

Rivets

Maybe a squeaky wheel does get greased. Which dealer gave you the call? Please let us know what repairs they are going to make and why.


#21

Z

ZO6ZOOM

The mower is at Best Truck Equipment in Painesville, OH


#22

R

Rivets

Is that the first or second dealer?


#23

Z

ZO6ZOOM

Rivets said:
Is that the first or second dealer?
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The second dealer. They were the ones who fixed it.


#24

R

Rivets

I hope your receipt has an explanation of what repairs were made. I many other techs on this site would like to know Scags solution.


#25

Z

ZO6ZOOM

Rivets said:
I hope your receipt has an explanation of what repairs were made. I many other techs on this site would like to know Scags solution.
Click to expand...
They attached some black and white pictures of the pulleys showing corrosion and said it was acting like sandpaper on the belt. They replaced all the drive pulleys and a new belt. I probably should of asked to see the old pulleys but I didn't.


#26

M

MParr

ZO6ZOOM said:
They attached some black and white pictures of the pulleys showing corrosion and said it was acting like sandpaper on the belt. They replaced all the drive pulleys and a new belt. I probably should of asked to see the old pulleys but I didn't.
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Did they even bother to check the pulley alignment?


#27

R

Rivets

Rusty pulleys not diagnosed by to dealers, but still covered by manufacturers warranty after you apply pressure. Sorry, but I don’t buy it. I doubt they would have given you the old parts back, would claim they need to be sent back for analysis. Guess only time will tell if the problem has been solved. Hope you get years of use, as I believe Scag is a good company, I’ve dealt with them many times, I’m still wondering why two dealers were putting you through the wringer to solve the problem.


#28

M

MParr

Rivets said:
Rusty pulleys not diagnosed by to dealers, but still covered by manufacturers warranty after you apply pressure. Sorry, but I don’t buy it. I doubt they would have given you the old parts back, would claim they need to be sent back for analysis. Guess only time will tell if the problem has been solved. Hope you get years of use, as I believe Scag is a good company, I’ve dealt with them many times, I’m still wondering why two dealers were putting you through the wringer to solve the problem.
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I ain’t buying the rusted pulley story either.


#29

StarTech

StarTech

Normally I provide the parts for the customer to see before either I send them off or throw them in the recycle bins.

As warranty hassle it is that we dealers are also put thru the wringer ourselves at times. This is why when I sell an item I warranty it myself and forget the OEM; but I still ask if they will honor their warranty. Sometime they will and other times they won't.

And the dealer provided images then they are trying to document the problem and hoping Scag will cover the parts and labor. It like myself being a Hydro Gear warranty repair center. I have to bill the customer up front and then when I get reimbursed then customer get reimbursed. Never know if HG will honor the warranty or not.


#30

Z

ZO6ZOOM

StarTech said:
Normally I provide the parts for the customer to see before either I send them off or throw them in the recycle bins.

As warranty hassle it is that we dealers are also put thru the wringer ourselves at times. This is why when I sell an item I warranty it myself and forget the OEM; but I still ask if they will honor their warranty. Sometime they will and other times they won't.

And the dealer provided images then they are trying to document the problem and hoping Scag will cover the parts and labor. It like myself being a Hydro Gear warranty repair center. I have to bill the customer up front and then when I get reimbursed then customer get reimbursed. Never know if HG will honor the warranty or not.
Click to expand...
Here’s the pictures they attached to my invoice. It does look like a rusty pulley and some corrosion on the aluminum. They say in their comments to scrape the deck after every mow. Does anybody really scrape their deck underneath after every time they mow? I would think a high-end lawnmower would not be susceptible to corrosion from moisture.SCAG1.jpegSCAG2.jpeg


#31

R

Rivets

You have got to be kidding me!!! Scrap a riding deck after every mow? I’ve never heard or have recommended this. What would grass under the deck have to do with rusting pulleys? If they would have said ”Blow off the top of the deck after every mow I would agree”. This would prevent a buildup of debris on the deck and prevent a possibility of moisture on the deck. Being that it is now out of warranty I would find the best dealer in your area to do your service work. I repeat,Scag builds a good unit. Only take it back to the other dealer if you have belt problems in the near future. Sorry you have to deal with people like, but I always said there are dealers who only want to make money, not help their customer. I’ve got three in my area, even one who threatened a law suit, because I’ve pointed out bad repairs and showed the customer what the dealer didn’t do right. When I went into the guys shop with the customer, the owner kicked both of us out and were told we were not allowed on the property again. He sold the customer the unit, but charged for repairs which should have been covered under warranty. I made sure to tell my customers about I experienced and never went back.


#32

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

Rivets said:
You have got to be kidding me!!! Scrap a riding deck after every mow? I’ve never heard or have recommended this. What would grass under the deck have to do with rusting pulleys? If they would have said ”Blow off the top of the deck after every mow I would agree”. This would prevent a buildup of debris on the deck and prevent a possibility of moisture on the deck. Being that it is now out of warranty I would find the best dealer in your area to do your service work. I repeat,Scag builds a good unit. Only take it back to the other dealer if you have belt problems in the near future. Sorry you have to deal with people like, but I always said there are dealers who only want to make money, not help their customer. I’ve got three in my area, even one who threatened a law suit, because I’ve pointed out bad repairs and showed the customer what the dealer didn’t do right. When I went into the guys shop with the customer, the owner kicked both of us out and were told we were not allowed on the property again. He sold the customer the unit, but charged for repairs which should have been covered under warranty. I made sure to tell my customers about I experienced and never went back.
Click to expand...
Not uncommon for customer mowers to have top and bottom of deck packed with grass when I service them. I scrape and clean them, remove spindle covers. I have seen a couple of mowers that sat out in high moisture situations with rusted pulleys and spindles. Had the replace some and use a wire wheel to remove rust.


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