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Buying a new Tiger Cat 52". What Engine should I get?

#1

C

Champ

22hp Kawasaki 691FX , 27hp Kohler , 25hp Kohler EFI fuel injected.


#2

P

plateauman57

Personal experience I would go with the kaw.


#3

M

Mad Mackie

If you have any possibility of adding a collection system, then I would go with the most HP available. If not, the Kawi is the first choice!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#4

C

Champ

Mad Mackie said:
If you have any possibility of adding a collection system, then I would go with the most HP available. If not, the Kawi is the first choice!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...

Thanks both for your replies. I won't be adding a collection system. I've always been a "the more HP the better" believer. Why no love for the Kohler? Is the Kawi really 5 HP less or is it how each company rates theirs? Thanks.


#5

M

Mad Mackie

The Kwai FX 730 was rated at 26 HP and changed to 23.5 HP after the class action suit against all the small engine manufacturers. The FX 691 now rated at 22 HP probably was 24 HP back when.
As for EFI or DFI on a small engine, most that have it like it until electrical/electronic problems show up and the electronic components are fairly expensive and difficult to troubleshoot. Carbs are easier to deal with and don't need an electric high pressure fuel pump.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#6

C

Champ

Mad Mackie said:
The Kwai FX 730 was rated at 26 HP and changed to 23.5 HP after the class action suit against all the small engine manufacturers. The FX 691 now rated at 22 HP probably was 24 HP back when.
As for EFI or DFI on a small engine, most that have it like it until electrical/electronic problems show up and the electronic components are fairly expensive and difficult to troubleshoot. Carbs are easier to deal with and don't need an electric high pressure fuel pump.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the EFI. I have a shot at diagnosing a carb problem. No way with EFI. What don't you like about the Kohler?


#7

M

Mad Mackie

I really don't have any heartburn with Kohler engines in general. However I do know three dealers, two in the Midwest and one locally, that are Hustler dealers and they will not stock Kohler powered Hustler machines particularly the Courage line of Kohler engines.
As for my local Scag dealer, they have sold many Kohler powered machines and continue to do so with no noticeable increase in servicing or failures with Kohler engines. In the commercial circles, the greatest percentage of operators have Kohler powered Turf Tigers, some operators have 5 or 6 machines and some with very high time engines.
About ten years ago I had a commercial operator with an early Kohler Command powered Turf Tiger stop by in a panic as his engine failed nearby. He had a new spare engine that I was able to quickly change out for him and got him back into business. I tore down the bad engine and found that the oil gallery plug had loosened and blown out causing a total failure of the engine. I called my friend in WI who has his own power equipment business and had been employed at Kohler in the past and he commented that the oil gallery plug wasn't a tight enough fit but Kohler sent out hundreds of engines with this problem, I haven't heard much any more about this problem since, but not many mechs will tear down a failed engine to see what caused the failure, but I have torn some down just to see what may have caused the failure, however I'm a retired mech and don't get beat on by my boss to make dollars!!!!
If HP is a major interest to you deciding which engine option to buy, go for the most HP in a carburetored engine.
My Scag Tiger Cub was B&S powered initially and I repowered it last March with another B&S engine as this was the easiest and cheapest direction to go in. The original engine had compression loss in one cylinder at 500 hours and I just swaped it out with a new engine. The #1 cylinder on the old engine had seriously stuck piston rings, ran fairly well at power, but sneezed at idle which I didn't like, so it went away!!!! #2 cylinder had 145 PSI compression, go figure!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#8

C

Champ

Mad Mackie said:
As for my local Scag dealer, they have sold many Kohler powered machines and continue to do so with no noticeable increase in servicing or failures with Kohler engines. In the commercial circles, the greatest percentage of operators have Kohler powered Turf Tigers, some operators have 5 or 6 machines and some with very high time engines.
Click to expand...

Why is Kawi your number one choice? The above seems like a good reason to go Kohler. It's been a long time since I purchased a new mower. Appreciate your input.


#9

M

Mad Mackie

My Hustler X-ONE/ 60" rear discharge deck has a Kawi FX730V engine and it is one sweet running engine. Lots of power and great fuel economy. Over the winter I've stopped at my local Scag dealer to drool on a new Tiger Cat/52" deck, they have mentioned that they will only stock this machine with a Kawi FX730V, but didn't say why. The Turf Tigers they stock all have the big block versions of the 3 majors, Kawi, Kohler and Briggs. I've been informed that the Kawi big blocks are having some problems and Briggs or Kohler are the better choices on a new Turf Tiger. I have no interest in the Cheetah or the Freedom Z, other than I have the same model 30 HP Briggs on my Tiger Cub that is on the wider deck models of the Freedom Z.
On machines with any type of hydraulic drive, a portion of the available horse power from the engine is used drive the machine. Regardless of the engine HP, the machine will only go as fast as the hydraulic drive system can handle. The balance of engine power is used by the mower deck and this is where higher HP will be evident when the load on the mower deck increases due to conditions.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::smile::biggrin:


#10

C

Champ

Mad Mackie said:
Over the winter I've stopped at my local Scag dealer to drool on a new Tiger Cat/52" deck, they have mentioned that they will only stock this machine with a Kawi FX730V, but didn't say why:
Click to expand...

The Scag web site says the 52" Tiger Cat comes with the 691FX and the 61" with the 730FX. Are they similar builds with different HP?. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow and hopefully will make an engine decision. Kohler is $300 more. Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I make out.


#11

M

Mad Mackie

Just looked at the specs at kawpower.com, the specs are the same except for HP and gross torque. I suspect that the difference is in the carb. Engines are sold by HP rating, more HP more money.
Yes the 52" Tiger Cat has the FX691V. A fine machine and I came close to buying one, but I need a new trailer and I repowered my 2008 Tiger Cub/48" deck/collection system, so I'm good for a while. I have looked over the 52" Tiger Cat very closely and I'm pleased with the upgrades that Scag has done to the Tiger Cats verses the older Tiger Cubs.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#12

C

Champ

Mad Mackie said:
Just looked at the specs at kawpower.com, the specs are the same except for HP and gross torque. I suspect that the difference is in the carb. Engines are sold by HP rating, more HP more money.
Yes the 52" Tiger Cat has the FX691V. A fine machine and I came close to buying one, but I need a new trailer and I repowered my 2008 Tiger Cub/48" deck/collection system, so I'm good for a while. I have looked over the 52" Tiger Cat very closely and I'm pleased with the upgrades that Scag has done to the Tiger Cats verses the older Tiger Cubs.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...

So today I bought the 52" Tiger Cat with the FX691V. Will pick it up in a week or so. Thanks for your help in picking an engine and your thoughts on the Tiger cat.


#13

D

dnewton3

Mad Mackie said:
.... I have looked over the 52" Tiger Cat very closely and I'm pleased with the upgrades that Scag has done to the Tiger Cats verses the older Tiger Cubs.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...


Just curious, MM, what upgrades you've noticed?

I have an older TC (2003 model?) with 19hp Kaw and I love it. I use it for residential trimming round my 8 acres, and my son uses it to mow 2 acres for the widow next door (good summer income for a 14 year old kid). Other than having to replace the starter switch relay, it's been flawless. What upgrades did they make? I can't imagine the unit being much beefier than what mine is. More power is always nice, but it comes at a price (purchase and fuel).


#14

M

Mad Mackie

Later model Tiger Cubs have the Velocity deck and continued on to the Tiger Cats.
Suspension seat or better depending on the model.
Hydraulic hoses have an outside covering similar to what is required on aircraft.
All Kawasaki engine options have the two stage HD air filtration system standard. The Kohler engine option does also. The Briggs option is the Commercial Turf series also with an improved air filter.
Foldable ROPS is standard.
Wider rear tires, less turf damage while turning.
Tapered roller bearings in the front axles, had been ball bearings.
Redesigned rear frame in the engine exhaust area.
Cast iron deck spindle housings, Tiber Cubs have aluminum housings.
All new machines regardless of make are required to have the fuel evaporative system, not an upgrade and adds to maintenance.
There may be more.
In March of 2013 I repowered my 2008 tiger Cub with a 30 HP Briggs Commercial Turf series engine as I was having a problem with the original 26 HP Briggs ELS engine.
Scag has always been quick to make changes when they become aware of problematic components. For example, the engine hour meters, engine start solenoids, engine cranking circuit relays, fuse holders and the bearings on the collection blower fan shaft come to mind at the moment.
Had I not repowered my Tiger Cub, I would now have a new Tiger Cat, but still with a 48" deck as with the collection blower installed, a wider deck would come too close to the cables on the ramp of my trailer.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#15

tigercat

tigercat

Champ said:
So today I bought the 52" Tiger Cat with the FX691V. Will pick it up in a week or so. Thanks for your help in picking an engine and your thoughts on the Tiger cat.
Click to expand...

I have the exact model and engine. Trust me, it has more power than you imagine. No matter how high the grass or how thick etc, you can cut it wide open and it won't even lug the engine. The grass will be cut clean like you bagged it.

When I collect leaves, I mount the collection system. I don't bag the grass, just the leaves.





#16

M

Mad Mackie

NICE!!!! Did you get it at Ganos in Colchester?:thumbsup:
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing:


#17

tigercat

tigercat

I bought it in Oct 2012 from FARMINGTON VALLEY EQUIPMENT when my 4 year old Craftsman yard tractor(46" cut) took a dump. I got it for 12000 incl tax delivered (if I recall correctly). I saved some buying it off season and not putting it on credit. I use it for my property and since repaired the sears machine and use it for pulling the lawn cart. I bought the Scag because of the amount of leaves I need to collect here. I really hated that job before and now I spend 2 hours (once a week on Saturday) cleaning my yard with the scag. It's kids play now. The Yard tractor would work over 6 hours doing the same area. (so I cleaned my yard for the 2ND fall season).

To add insult to the sears name, last year I decided to pre-mulch a pile of leaves and I used the sears machine again.That was a mistake as I blew the head gasket.....
I REBUILT IT AGAIN.

Home depot had a returned machine (reconditioned) Ariens tractor for $700 on the floor a few months ago. I bought the tractor to replace the sears if it dies again.:thumbsup

I cut the grass with the Scag and it's a night and day difference how efficient the pro machines are. I spend more time trimming then riding. I purposely fertilized my yard last year and skipped cutting it for 2 weeks. The grass was thick and tall.
so what, it cut the yard in the same time and I didn't have clumps of grass anywhere. Scag makes an awesome machine!


#18

M

Mad Mackie

I've never been to Farmington Power Equipment, just looked at their website, very nice!:thumbsup:
I just replaced the blower fan in my collection system blower, 500 rough hours on it, with the new fan this makes the 3rd set of bearings.
I'm chomping at the bit to get going with spring cleanup, but I need to allow the grass to get some growth so I tear up a minimum amount while dethatching. I haven't seen many regular lawn care guys out and about, so things haven't got rolling yet.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#19

C

Champ

tigercat said:
I have the exact model and engine. Trust me, it has more power than you imagine. No matter how high the grass or how thick etc, you can cut it wide open and it won't even lug the engine. The grass will be cut clean like you bagged it.

When I collect leaves, I mount the collection system. I don't bag the grass, just the leaves.



Click to expand...

Nice. Picking mine up this Saturday. Glad to hear that about the Kawi. Thanks.


#20

C

Champ

Picked up my Tiger Cat today. First experience with a zero turn. Slight learning curve but I'm getting it. Bought it from M&H Tractor in Middletown, NY. Smooth transaction. Nice people to deal with.


#21

tigercat

tigercat

You drive a zero turn like a motorcycle. In other words you counter steer. On my bike, I push the handlebar to turn the way I go. If I want to go left, I push forward my left arm on the left handlebar. So, when I ride my Scag I operate it the same way. No wonder I feel like I do when ride it around as I'm always reaching for my helmet!:laughing:

A lot of safeties to know about. You start it with both handles swong out and parking break on. You need to b on the seat as well. I got stumped once while doing leaves as I shut it down so a neighbor could chat with me and I couldn't re-start it. I thought I broke down, until I remembered....:confused2:


#22

D

dnewton3

tigercat said:
You drive a zero turn like a motorcycle. In other words you counter steer. On my bike, I push the handlebar to turn the way I go. If I want to go left, I push forward my left arm on the left handlebar. So, when I ride my Scag I operate it the same way. No wonder I feel like I do when ride it around as I'm always reaching for my helmet!:laughing:
Click to expand...



Ummmmmm - NO!

You have the countersteering concept correct when it comes to bikes.
You have it wrong concerning ZTRs. There is no "countersteering" on a ZTR because it cannot pivot it's CG transversly over the vertical axis of it's path of travel.

You can "lean" a motorcycle left or right and you balance the effects of centrifugal and centripedal forces. Counterstreering only applies to traditional two-wheeled vehicles, and is the concept of making the front wheel transfer off the travel line of the rear wheel, creating a controlled fall of sorts. When you push with your left arm on the left handlebar, it causes the handlebar to "turn" right, which causes the front tire to move to the right of the CoG by altering the front tire off the path of travel of the rear, and therefore the bike "falls" to the left. As the front wheel continues to stay outside the relative path of travel, the bike is traveling in an arc to the left. That arc begets the centripedal force; it's the acceleration of your mass trying to continue in a straight line at infinite vectors. Gravity provides the centrifugal force (falling toward center of the arc with infinite continual vectors). They balance out as long as you maintain the arc via the velocity and steering input. Yada, yada, yada ... simply put; push left, go left. The reason it's referred to as "counter steering" is because four-wheel folks consider it turning the "wheel" (handlebar) to the right, but the bike goes left. If the motorcycle had a wheel rather than a bar, it would indeed mean you'd have to "turn" the "wheel" to the right to go left. Hence, the term "countersteering".

But you don't "lean" a ZTR. When you push on the left control lever on a ZTR, the unit will go RIGHT and not left (presuming you're holding the other control lever at some constant relative to the motion of the left one being moved forward) because you are advancing the left wheel motor drive relative to the other. ZTRs don't counter steer. simply put; push left, go right. If the ZTR had a wheel instead of control levers (and some do), you'd turn the wheel right to go right. There is no "contersteering" on a ZTR.


I understand what you were trying to say, but you were incorrect in the way you stated it.
Yes - when you drive a ZTR you push the left bar to go right; in a way that could be "counter driving". But it's not counter-steering. And the two are NOT the same when it comes to bikes versus anything with more than two wheels.


#23

D

dnewton3

Mad Mackie said:
Later model Tiger Cubs have the Velocity deck and continued on to the Tiger Cats.
Suspension seat or better depending on the model.
Hydraulic hoses have an outside covering similar to what is required on aircraft.
All Kawasaki engine options have the two stage HD air filtration system standard. The Kohler engine option does also. The Briggs option is the Commercial Turf series also with an improved air filter.
Foldable ROPS is standard.
Wider rear tires, less turf damage while turning.
Tapered roller bearings in the front axles, had been ball bearings.
Redesigned rear frame in the engine exhaust area.
Cast iron deck spindle housings, Tiber Cubs have aluminum housings.
All new machines regardless of make are required to have the fuel evaporative system, not an upgrade and adds to maintenance.
There may be more.
In March of 2013 I repowered my 2008 tiger Cub with a 30 HP Briggs Commercial Turf series engine as I was having a problem with the original 26 HP Briggs ELS engine.
Scag has always been quick to make changes when they become aware of problematic components. For example, the engine hour meters, engine start solenoids, engine cranking circuit relays, fuse holders and the bearings on the collection blower fan shaft come to mind at the moment.
Had I not repowered my Tiger Cub, I would now have a new Tiger Cat, but still with a 48" deck as with the collection blower installed, a wider deck would come too close to the cables on the ramp of my trailer.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...


Interesting ...

I think my Tiger Cub is a 2003 model? I bought it new, but don't recall the year. I know I bought it two years after moving into our home, which was 2001, so I can only presume I have a 2003 Tiger Cub. However, as I bought it early in the season in 2003, it may have been a left-over 2002 model. I truly don't know. I'd have to pull out the paperwork to know.

My Cub is a STC48 with 19hp Kaw, and has many of the features you describe. I do have the velocity deck. However, my seat is just a basic one. I don't recall my hoses being covered, but they are well routed and stay reasonbly clean so I don't know that matters much to me. I do have the OEM two-stage high-end air filter set up; it came that way. My Cub has mounts for ROPS, but did not include one nor a belt. I know the front bearings are tapered; I've had it apart. I know my blade spindles are cast iron and have the over-grease protection poppet; they are not aluminum because I was showing my son the difference between our Scag and a cheap L120 Deere deck so he could see the difference. The spindles have the large pass through bolt design which enables easy and quick blade removal as well as the very thick mounting flange for the spindle to mount to the deck.

Seems like my Cub was perhaps built around a time when they were melding some features across the brand line? I still have the brochure from when I purcased the unit, and as I recall, many of the heavy duty features (Vel deck, cast iron spindles, etc) were even touted in the brochure as being present for all models. That's one reason I bought the Scag at the time over Deere and Exmark; the Scag was truly commerical in its approach even down to it's smaller models. My Tiger Cub is built as heavy and well as any Tiger Cat or Cheeta of the day. I wanted a smaller unit for trim mowing around obstacles on my 8 acres and to be able to pass through our walk gates, so I got the 48" Cub. But it has every HD feature that all the other Scag models had at the time.

We just prep'd it yesterday for this mowing season. I will never regret buying it; it's commercial grade and will last me a lifetime.


#24

tigercat

tigercat

Oh nevermind my post... too early in the morning... After I read what I posted your right!:laughing:


#25

C

Champ

tigercat said:
You drive a zero turn like a motorcycle. In other words you counter steer. On my bike, I push the handlebar to turn the way I go. If I want to go left, I push forward my left arm on the left handlebar. So, when I ride my Scag I operate it the same way. No wonder I feel like I do when ride it around as I'm always reaching for my helmet!:laughing:

A lot of safeties to know about. You start it with both handles swong out and parking break on. You need to b on the seat as well. I got stumped once while doing leaves as I shut it down so a neighbor could chat with me and I couldn't re-start it. I thought I broke down, until I remembered....:confused2:
Click to expand...

I'm in a lake with that method! :smile: Cut the lawn at my building property today and was a pleasure to use. Great cut.


#26

RedEyedRooster

RedEyedRooster

I bought a Tiger Cat 52" with Kaw FX691V motor for $8000.00 after taxes 4/23/14. I mow 4.5 acres that is hilly and was worried I bought to small but have to say I'm impressed. Never drove a zero turn before and haven't mowed this year (grass between 5-9 inch) till I brought it home. I asked for some hearing protection for Christmas sense I cut wood for supplemental heat and ended up getting a pair of Howard Leight AM/FM radio ear muffs. So put about 2.5 gal. of gas in each side, put on my ear protection and took off. First I was going to go around the house (being lazy) then thought I'll just do the front yard (went pretty fast) then might as well do the back. Radio said rain tomorrow so I'll go around the barn, well might as well do the other half of the property where I planted 40 trees 5 years ago. It probably took 2hrs (guessing) not knowing what i was doing (I looked like Tony Stewart on a dirt track coming around those trees) grass was high in areas but never bogged down and yard has no clumps at all, amazing. I did use one side of the gas tanks ( full throttle @ 2hr stopping to pick up branches over 2" diameter) Now I'm looking at fertilizing my yard where before thought I couldn't keep up with the growth, lol. Man you all probably know but the hearing protection really made a difference ( I had a apple tree rake them off my ear once and couldn't wait to get them back in place). Really am impressed with the power, speed, and quality of cut with this unit.


#27

tigercat

tigercat

Only bad thing about the Tiger cat is if the grounds are wet or damp, on hills your going to spin your real wheels, going up or down.
So, I just cut in the afternoon. No big deal. The machine weighs a lot with more power than you imagine.


#28

djdicetn

djdicetn

Champ said:
The Scag web site says the 52" Tiger Cat comes with the 691FX and the 61" with the 730FX. Are they similar builds with different HP?. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow and hopefully will make an engine decision. Kohler is $300 more. Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I make out.
Click to expand...

I have the Kawa FX691V on my Gravely and it is one lean, mean cutting machine. If you compare the torque on the Kawa compared to Kohlers and others you will find the Kawasaki has an edge. And others on the forum will tell you that since the class-action and subsequent overhaul of hp ratings you should pay little attention to that spec compared to the torque produced. Torque is what cuts tall, thick grass without straining the engine....not hp!!!

EDIT:Ooooops, I should have continued reading this thread before responding.......but I see you made the right choice on engines:0)


#29

M

Mad Mackie

tigercat said:
Only bad thing about the Tiger cat is if the grounds are wet or damp, on hills your going to spin your real wheels, going up or down.
So, I just cut in the afternoon. No big deal. The machine weighs a lot with more power than you imagine.
Click to expand...

Loosing traction on damp grass is normal for ZTRs.


#30

L

Loosenut

Reading online the other day I saw that the Kawasaki has higher torque than it's US counter parts even though they we huger HP.


#31

L

Loosenut

Loosenut said:
Reading online the other day I saw that the Kawasaki has higher torque than it's US counter parts even though they we huger HP.[/QUOTE
Oops, I meant higher HP.
Click to expand...


#32

M

Mad Mackie

On any machine with any sort of hydraulic drive, V belt drive, or combination of, engine torque and horsepower are not of major concern, as the drive system only uses a small percentage of the engines power output. The remaining power is used to drive the mower system and connected collection system if installed. Engine torque is a factor on direct drive systems that are found on larger machines with manual transmissions with dry clutches and larger automatic transmissions as found on farm tractors.
As for the typical vertical shaft small engines, more HP costs more money, better quality engines cost more money making the machine package more expensive. Machines are packaged and assembled with a target price in mind and vary depending on the deck size and power needed to comfortably operate the entire machine and still be attractive to different segments of perspective buyers.
Some thoughts from
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#33

M

Mad Mackie

Loosenut said:
Loosenut said:
Reading online the other day I saw that the Kawasaki has higher torque than it's US counter parts even though they we huger HP.[/QUOTE
Oops, I meant higher HP.
Click to expand...

The Kawasaki FX730V on my Hustler X-ONE is rated at 23.5 HP, but had been previously rated at 27 HP, 26 HP, 24.5 HP and in 2012 23.5 HP
The Briggs 49M977 on my Scag Tiger Cub repower was initially rated at 30 HP, and was later downgraded to 27 HP.
These HP downgrades and changes from HP ratings to torque ratings are as result of a frivolous class action suit
against the major small engine manufacturers, the lions share of this 50 million dollar settlement was paid by Briggs & Stratton.
This suit made a specific group of lawyers richer, leaving the consumer more confused as they look to purchase machines with small engines installed. No one to this day has complained about the HP rating of their mower, however their mowers are now more expensive and with a more confusing rating system.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:
Click to expand...


#34

G

Greg McCall

My Scag Tiger Cat was good for the first year except for the back firing when I shut it off.

The Second year has been.....well I have not got a second year with it.

I posted this story elsewhere but here it is again...

My Scag mower has been in the shop now all but 2 weeks since January for one problem or another. The mower is less than 2 years old. I have been back and forth to two different repair shops with the mower at least 5 or 6 times. Mower is still at the Terrell Texas dealer service shop today. I ask the dealer in Terrell for a trade in "deal" and was politely offered about $4,000 on an $8000 I paid. That is not a deal and I understand, only the factory Manufacturer can help here. Mower has about 56 hours on the engine.

They have replaced the carb with no help and I don't know where they are with it now. Supposedly a factory rep has looked at it several times but I still have no mower.

So far I can not get Scag to back up their product.


I need a mower that will run or money back.


#35

M

Mad Mackie

Greg McCall said:
My Scag Tiger Cat was good for the first year except for the back firing when I shut it off.

The Second year has been.....well I have not got a second year with it.

I posted this story elsewhere but here it is again...

My Scag mower has been in the shop now all but 2 weeks since January for one problem or another. The mower is less than 2 years old. I have been back and forth to two different repair shops with the mower at least 5 or 6 times. Mower is still at the Terrell Texas dealer service shop today. I ask the dealer in Terrell for a trade in "deal" and was politely offered about $4,000 on an $8000 I paid. That is not a deal and I understand, only the factory Manufacturer can help here. Mower has about 56 hours on the engine.

They have replaced the carb with no help and I don't know where they are with it now. Supposedly a factory rep has looked at it several times but I still have no mower.

So far I can not get Scag to back up their product.


I need a mower that will run or money back.
Click to expand...

Give us a quick recap of the problems with your Tiger Cat and what engine is on it.
Mad Mackie in CT


#36

L

Loosenut

Sorry to hear about all the problems with your Scag. I have been researching ZTRs' for months and I haven't heard many having problems as bad as yours. Maybe you could apply the Lemon Law to your situation! Although it may only apply to automobiles. I am still leaning toward a Scag myself. I have been looking at the the 52" Tiger Cat and Cheetah, but I like the Bobcat and Ferris too. The Ferris steering seems very touchy to me, but i could probably get used to it. Anyway good luck getting the Scag fixed and hopefully right for the last time!


#37

G

gmccall

Loosenut said:
Sorry to hear about all the problems with your Scag. I have been researching ZTRs' for months and I haven't heard many having problems as bad as yours. Maybe you could apply the Lemon Law to your situation! Although it may only apply to automobiles. I am still leaning toward a Scag myself. I have been looking at the the 52" Tiger Cat and Cheetah, but I like the Bobcat and Ferris too. The Ferris steering seems very touchy to me, but i could probably get used to it. Anyway good luck getting the Scag fixed and hopefully right for the last time!
Click to expand...


Yea the Scag brand ZTR was tops from what little I researched when I bought it. A friend of mine works for a big city Parks Department and they contract with different landscape companies that use Scag brand mowers as well as other brands. He has personally owned a Scag mower for 12 plus years and has had a little trouble but in all it is still running.
However, any brand mower can lose their quality control. This may be what is starting to happen with Scag. I have been told that there are other Scag owners with machines built in the last few years and they are having similar problems.
Some of the problem may lie with a challenged repair shop too.

The big question is whether Scag is going to stand behind their product. So far I can say no !

How many of you are willing to go without your mowers for 5 months in mowing season ? (the clock is still ticking) 6 months ??


#38

G

gmccall

Mad Mackie said:
Give us a quick recap of the problems with your Tiger Cat and what engine is on it.
Mad Mackie in CT
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A quick recap ..........

STC52V 27CV Kohler

The first year my Scag mower was great. I would buy another if I could be assured it would continue to run properly.

Problems started last January when I got the mower out to mow the weeds ( I am in Texas).
Mower ran fine for awhile and then I killed the engine and took a break. When I tried to start the engine again, mower would not start. Nothing happend when I turned the key.
No sound at all. At first I thought I did not have all controls positioned to pass the many safety switches but that was not it. I researched the no-start issue and found a safety switch may be the culprit. I started with the seat safety switch, crossed wired it and engine started right up. I finished mowing and then took the mower to a shop in Mesquite Texas where I bought the machine.

I told the shop what I had done and that there is ALSO an oil leak and the engine has backfired since I bought the mower when I kill the engine.
A few weeks go by and I started calling (at least once a week) for a status. After 6 WEEKS go by, the repair shop actually called me to say the mower was ready. They had found the seat Saftey switch was corroded. They cleaned the switch and all was working, so they said. They did not find an oil leak and I forgot to ask about the backfire.
The shop did apologize for the delay on repairing my machine and said they performed some additional routine maintenance on the mower.

So.. I picked the mower up, mowed for 30 minutes, stopped the engine, it backfires as usual. OK that was never a real problem anyway.
30 minutes or so go by and I try to start the engine and.........nothing... no sound from the machine when I turn the key. :mad: 6 weeks in the shop and this happens all over again. I am not making this up.

SO I DECIDE TO TAKE MY MOWER TO ANOTHER SCAG DEALER SHOP.

I tell the second shop my story and the problems. Now the real circus stories begin with the mower.
All of my account may not be in the exact order of "events" but....

After a few days the second shop calls to say we have the mower running and are looking into the backfire. A few days latter, the shop tells me they are going to have to order another carburetor (for a mower less than a 2 years old and few hours). I call every week for a status. 4 weeks later the carb is installed and the shop says the mower is ready.
I drive to the shop to pick the mower up and the engine is not running smooth. I leave the mower. A week later the shop calls to say mower is ready.

(By the way in the middle of all this mower problems, I am having to borrow a mower to keep my yard mowed).

I pick the mower up on a Friday and drive 90 miles to my country getaway to mow there. I have a tractor with a mower, but I prefer the Scag ZTR.
I mowed the "usual" 30 minutes and the engine starts to surge........I had driven the mower off my trailer and never put the ramps up. I barely got the mower back on the trailer at which time it died and would not start again. The following Monday I return the mower to the repair shop. The shop said the mechanic was off but would have him look at the mower first thing the next day. I send emails to the shop asking for a status but very seldom get a reply. No call from the shop for a week or so, and then I get a call saying mower is ready for pickup, that they had found a "small twig ?) in the carburetor.
OK, I go to pick the mower up and come home to mow. Mower runs for a short time and begins to surge again and dies. Later I try to start the mower and get a no start. I have to jiggle the key and every once in a while the starter makes a noise. Finally the engine starts and I took the mower back to the shop the same day.
Later I was told there seems to be a solenoid problem with the starters and there may be a recall in the future.

So far I have driven to the shop to discuss the mower problems, pleaded for another mower and was told there is no Lemon Law with mowers. I even ask to trade the mower in and from my previous posts you see the insulting reply. Offered me $4000 against the $8000 I paid less than 2 years ago. I told the Dealer I would give them $2000 and my mower for a 61" Cheeta they had on the floor and was kindly told no way.

Several weeks ago I was told the mower was ready and I ask, "are you sure "? I was told yes.
Drove to the shop, the mechanic was off (it was a Monday) but mower is in the yard. I get on the mower, hit the key....nothing at first and then engine starts.
The engine Sounds like crap and when I go to move forward the engine nearly dies. I think well maybe the engine is cold so I go to drive the machine onto my trailer and it barely had enough power to get onto the trailer. I immediately drive the mower back off the trailer and into the shop. As you can imagine I am ticked off. Another mechanic checks the machine and says "something is not right.

The factory rep supposedly has looked at my mower several times, but I have not received any offers for restitution to date.

AND I STILL DO NOT HAVE A MOWER


#39

K

kwak

I have read your posts both here and on the "tractor" Forum and it really sounds to me more like an engine problem than a mower problem. I can definateluy understand your frustration and cant say that I would feel any different if this happened to me but it really doesnt sound like a Scag issue beyond the fact that there is a Scag dealer working on your mower.

Have you thought about contacting Kohler?


#40

G

gmccall

kwak said:
I have read your posts both here and on the "tractor" Forum and it really sounds to me more like an engine problem than a mower problem. I can definateluy understand your frustration and cant say that I would feel any different if this happened to me but it really doesnt sound like a Scag issue beyond the fact that there is a Scag dealer working on your mower.

Have you thought about contacting Kohler?
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Know I have not. You would think that The repair shop or Scag even would do so.

The engines are mechanical so it just takes a mechanic that may be above average in experience.

The repair shop did contact me to this afternoon to say they have the engine running right but want to keep the mower a few days more to make sure.
They did say they took the carb apart amongst other things but do not know what the problem was.

I will post the results for all to benefit.

This has been a nightmare.


#41

G

gmccall

gmccall said:
Know I have not. You would think that The repair shop or Scag even would do so.

The engines are mechanical so it just takes a mechanic that may be above average in experience.

The repair shop did contact me to this afternoon to say they have the engine running right but want to keep the mower a few days more to make sure.
They did say they took the carb apart amongst other things but do not know what the problem was.

I will post the results for all to benefit.

This has been a nightmare.
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I did get my mower back last week and it is running OK now.
Oddly the mower shop could not tell me what they did for sure that cured the engine problems.

What a bad experience is all I can say.


#42

C

Champ

Have been using my Tiger Cat for the last 2-3 months and very pleased with it. Have to say only thing I don't like is where the hour meter is located. Very happy with my decision to purchase a Scag with the Kawi.


#43

M

Mad Mackie

Having serviced many machines over the years and owning a Tiger Cub, I'm going to say that the hourmeter location is better for the hourmeter than panel mount or other spots that manufacturers have placed them. On panel mounts, although more visible, they are more vulnerable to damage and scratches from the operator cleaning off the dust with his finger. On an older Toro that I have serviced, the meter is mounted on the panel below the seat hinge near the keyswitch, which is OK, but the owner/operator didn't know it was there and when getting on or off the machine, the heels of his shoes had cracked the clear plastic lens and dust had filled in behind it. I blow down my machines following almost every use and clear the dust off the hourmeter and look at it to see what time has passed and check my maintenance list that is stuck under the seat.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#44

M

Mad Mackie

gmccall said:
I did get my mower back last week and it is running OK now.
Oddly the mower shop could not tell me what they did for sure that cured the engine problems.

What a bad experience is all I can say.
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Over that last 30 years or so I have run into problems with carbs with metal chips having been left in them from manufacturing. This is not an easy situation to discover and not easily corrected. Larger HP Yamaha outboard motors in the late 80s/ early 90s had frequent carb problems of this nature. Once one becomes aware of this, then troubleshooting becomes easier and less time consuming. However it would be nice to know just what was ailing your Tiger Cat!!!
just some thoughts from
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:


#45



DSepe

dnewton3 said:
Ummmmmm - NO! You have the countersteering concept correct when it comes to bikes. You have it wrong concerning ZTRs. There is no "countersteering" on a ZTR because it cannot pivot it's CG transversly over the vertical axis of it's path of travel. You can "lean" a motorcycle left or right and you balance the effects of centrifugal and centripedal forces. Counterstreering only applies to traditional two-wheeled vehicles, and is the concept of making the front wheel transfer off the travel line of the rear wheel, creating a controlled fall of sorts. When you push with your left arm on the left handlebar, it causes the handlebar to "turn" right, which causes the front tire to move to the right of the CoG by altering the front tire off the path of travel of the rear, and therefore the bike "falls" to the left. As the front wheel continues to stay outside the relative path of travel, the bike is traveling in an arc to the left. That arc begets the centripedal force; it's the acceleration of your mass trying to continue in a straight line at infinite vectors. Gravity provides the centrifugal force (falling toward center of the arc with infinite continual vectors). They balance out as long as you maintain the arc via the velocity and steering input. Yada, yada, yada ... simply put; push left, go left. The reason it's referred to as "counter steering" is because four-wheel folks consider it turning the "wheel" (handlebar) to the right, but the bike goes left. If the motorcycle had a wheel rather than a bar, it would indeed mean you'd have to "turn" the "wheel" to the right to go left. Hence, the term "countersteering". But you don't "lean" a ZTR. When you push on the left control lever on a ZTR, the unit will go RIGHT and not left (presuming you're holding the other control lever at some constant relative to the motion of the left one being moved forward) because you are advancing the left wheel motor drive relative to the other. ZTRs don't counter steer. simply put; push left, go right. If the ZTR had a wheel instead of control levers (and some do), you'd turn the wheel right to go right. There is no "contersteering" on a ZTR. I understand what you were trying to say, but you were incorrect in the way you stated it. Yes - when you drive a ZTR you push the left bar to go right; in a way that could be "counter driving". But it's not counter-steering. And the two are NOT the same when it comes to bikes versus anything with more than two wheels.
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Thanks Bill Nye the science guy.


#46

M

monkfarm

Anyone tried that diesel engine Scag has or had? I thought that might be a great idea, my 27hp kaw burns quite a bit of fuel. The torgue for turning the blades etc might be harmonious with a good diesel.


#47

D

dnewton3

I have not run a diesel Scag, but I have experience on both a diesel Dixie Chopper (50hp turbo Yanmar that is a BEAST) and running a Kubota ZD21.
I like both and they do admirably well. The torque gives a bit more "oomph" in heavy grass, and they are better for fuel economy.
However, one should not go blindly into purchasing a diesel. They cost more at the negotiating table as well as during service.

If you only are going to use the mower as a part time venture (homeowner or occasional commercial) you'll find it hard to cost justify the very pricey diesel at time or purchase.
If you are going to use it for years of heavy commercial use, nearly non-stop all season long, then the fuel savings and longevity can pay for itself.

The only way to know where the breakpoint is would be to sit down and do a detailed, calculated analysis of average acres mowed, expected fuel consumed, average fuel costs, etc and expected lifecycle.

As you can see from my sig line, I bought a Scag with an air-cooled gasser because I only use it around my 8 acres for trimming around the home, trees, etc. I'll NEVER wear out the engine, and it was the least expensive option. I use my diesel Kubota tractor with a 7' deck for mowing the open areas, and the Scag for trimming.

My point? Don't over-buy; it's just as disappointing as under-buying. A diesel engine is a great answer only to specific questions; it's not a one-size-fits-all answer for everything.


#48

M

Mad Mackie

dnewton3 said:
I have not run a diesel Scag, but I have experience on both a diesel Dixie Chopper (50hp turbo Yanmar that is a BEAST) and running a Kubota ZD21.
I like both and they do admirably well. The torque gives a bit more "oomph" in heavy grass, and they are better for fuel economy.
However, one should not go blindly into purchasing a diesel. They cost more at the negotiating table as well as during service.

If you only are going to use the mower as a part time venture (homeowner or occasional commercial) you'll find it hard to cost justify the very pricey diesel at time or purchase.
If you are going to use it for years of heavy commercial use, nearly non-stop all season long, then the fuel savings and longevity can pay for itself.

The only way to know where the breakpoint is would be to sit down and do a detailed, calculated analysis of average acres mowed, expected fuel consumed, average fuel costs, etc and expected lifecycle.

As you can see from my sig line, I bought a Scag with an air-cooled gasser because I only use it around my 8 acres for trimming around the home, trees, etc. I'll NEVER wear out the engine, and it was the least expensive option. I use my diesel Kubota tractor with a 7' deck for mowing the open areas, and the Scag for trimming.

My point? Don't over-buy; it's just as disappointing as under-buying. A diesel engine is a great answer only to specific questions; it's not a one-size-fits-all answer for everything.
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Well said!


#49

G

gmccall

gmccall said:
I did get my mower back last week and it is running OK now.
Oddly the mower shop could not tell me what they did for sure that cured the engine problems.

What a bad experience is all I can say.
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Well..........one more time,

Mower is back in the shop for a no-start again when engine is hot.

Obviously the problem was never repaired.

Diagnoses found the Starter/solenoid the problem .
Part on order.


#50



DSepe

gmccall said:
Well..........one more time, Mower is back in the shop for a no-start again when engine is hot. Obviously the problem was never repaired. Diagnoses found the Starter/solenoid the problem . Part on order.
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What a lemon


#51

K

Kbota

Well, I just bought a Tiger Cat 52", Kaw FX691. This thing is a beast.


#52

G

gmccall

DSepe said:
What a lemon
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LEMON IS A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THIS SCAG MOWER !

I STILL DON'T HAVE MY MOWER BACK. :mad:

I AM READY TO TAKE A BIG LOSS ON THIS MOWER ON A TRADE IN OR OUT RIGHT SALE.

If you need parts for a Scag Mower I guess your screwed.

My Tiger Cat 52" Scag mower has 65 hours on it. It took 3 weeks for the shop to have replace the carb on the mower several months ago.
My understanding was that they could not get the part.


#53

G

gmccall

gmccall said:
LEMON IS A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THIS SCAG MOWER !

I STILL DON'T HAVE MY MOWER BACK. :mad:

I AM READY TO TAKE A BIG LOSS ON THIS MOWER ON A TRADE IN OR OUT RIGHT SALE.

If you need parts for a Scag Mower I guess your screwed.

My Tiger Cat 52" Scag mower has 65 hours on it. It took 3 weeks for the shop to have replace the carb on the mower several months ago.
My understanding was that they could not get the part.
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UPDATE !!


UPDATE !!

Picked mower up last Wednesday. Starter/Solenoid was replaced and mower started when hot a few times this past weekend.

So far all is working OK, although there seemed some hesitation on the starter kicking over when I turned the key.

But so far so good


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