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I have a 16 HP I/C engine in my Simplicity 5216H. Bought new in 1986. Engine model 402707 0145 01. The engine is getting a bit tired and I'd like to re-ring it. Compression is 90 lbs in both cylinders, factory cross hatching is still visible on the cylinder walls. The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power. I've been looking for rings but Briggs doesn't list a part number for rings for this engine. After looking at the various models listed in the factory service manual it looks like rings with a part number 393277 should fit this engine. Any thoughts out there on how I can make sure these rings will fit, or does anyone know what the part number is for rings for my engine? The engine is still together and blowing snow here in central New York. Any feedback will be appreciated.

Proper valve adjustment on the tight side of in-tolerance would be advised. See what you get after with a compression gauge FOR SMALL ENGINES. Not some 454 chevy compression gauge with a foot long hose.

Thanks slomo. I will check valve clearance. Easier than a big teardown. I do keep the cooling fins and block clean. And, my 45 year old Craftsman compression tester seems to works pretty well on everything: 1974 Sportster, '69 Charger (440 CI) and all small engines . Appreciate the feedback.

simpleandy said:

Thanks slomo. I will check valve clearance. Easier than a big teardown. I do keep the cooling fins and block clean. And, my 45 year old Craftsman compression tester seems to works pretty well on everything: 1974 Sportster, '69 Charger (440 CI) and all small engines . Appreciate the feedback.

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Is the engine burning oil, if so, is it excessive? Is it smoking? Do compression test wet and dry. Dry test is normal, wet test is add a bit of oil down spark plug hole, then perform compression test. Does the compression go up with wet test, if so, how much?

Tiger Small Engine said:

Is the engine burning oil, if so, is it excessive? Is it smoking? Do compression test wet and dry. Dry test is normal, wet test is add a bit of oil down spark plug hole, then perform compression test. Does the compression go up with wet test, if so, how much?

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a 10 % rise would be expected normal wet. Not prior comment on gauge and speed of rotation and number of compression cycles.

Compression was done dry. Six or seven cranks with electric starter (until reading reached max). Engine does not smoke or use an excessive amount of oil. About what I would expect from a 39 year old engine that has been used year round for mowing and snowblowing (500 ft driveway in central New York). I'll do the wet test to see what the difference is. It's a great engine and just want to freshen it up for a few more years. Which is about about what I have

simpleandy said:

Thanks slomo. I will check valve clearance. Easier than a big teardown. I do keep the cooling fins and block clean. And, my 45 year old Craftsman compression tester seems to works pretty well on everything: 1974 Sportster, '69 Charger (440 CI) and all small engines . Appreciate the feedback.

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Yes yours will work on your engines. Is it the "proper" tool for small engines, no. Will you get a reading with yours yes. You want a stub gauge for small engines. A foot long hose will skew your reading.

Unless you’re experiencing problems, not just worrying about age or what might be, I would NOT recommend tearing into the engine. This could get expensive very easily. Here’s why.
1. If you’re doing one cylinder, best to do both. This would double cost.
2. I’ve rebuilt more engines than most people and have found if the cylinders are still in spec, they still need to be glazed honed. Would need to buy a one time use tool and after done what do yo do with it.
3. I’ve seen more than one time DIY guys do more harm than good if they are not experienced.
4. Do you do with the engine and piece of equipment if you do screw up.
5. You will also have to purchase gaskets, 2 head, 1 pan gasket, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, etc.
6. This is not a TWO hour job. Site unseen, I would normally soft quote 6-10 hours labor. I‘m never surprised by what I find after I start. More than once I’ve had to call the customer and say, “it’s not worth it.
I recommend you think long and hard before starting this project, just my opinion.

Rivets said:

Unless you’re experiencing problems, not just worrying about age or what might be, I would NOT recommend tearing into the engine. This could get expensive very easily. Here’s why.
1. If you’re doing one cylinder, best to do both. This would double cost.
2. I’ve rebuilt more engines than most people and have found if the cylinders are still in spec, they still need to be glazed honed. Would need to buy a one time use tool and after done what do yo do with it.
3. I’ve seen more than one time DIY guys do more harm than good if they are not experienced.
4. Do you do with the engine and piece of equipment if you do screw up.
5. You will also have to purchase gaskets, 2 head, 1 pan gasket, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, etc.
6. This is not a TWO hour job. Site unseen, I would normally soft quote 6-10 hours labor. I‘m never surprised by what I find after I start. More than once I’ve had to call the customer and say, “it’s not worth it.
I recommend you think long and hard before starting this project, just my opinion.

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Unless you want the experience and have the time and money, I agree with not “rebuilding “ engine.

Rivets and Tiger: I agree 100%. The engine runs good and I don't need to tear it down for naught. As an old friend and great mechanic says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I appreciate all the feedback and input. Meanwhile, I'll be fixing the rear tire that went flat while snowblowing this morning Always something.

Really think you are jumping the gun here. Set the valves proper. See what you have after. 90psi with a compression release cam, if yours has one, sounds good to me. A Briggs can run on 35psi LOL.

simpleandy said:

The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power.

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Compared to what?

Are you sure you are getting full throttle? Would not surprise me that the throttle cable/linkage is set improper. Or the choke is coming on partially and you don't know it.

Betting she is all carboned up internally. Carbon chunks sitting on the back sides of the valves killing airflow into the cylinder/s. An engine this old from 1986 will be loaded with carbon cholesterol. Your engine manual probably states to de-carbon the cylinder/s say at 5 year service intervals. Bet the head/s have never been off. Could be wrong here.

Dull blades can degrade performance.

Slipping belts can degrade performance.

Dead pulleys and bearings can degrade performance.

Low tire pressure can degrade performance.

An off brand air filter can degrade performance. For that matter I've seen OEM filters act like the choke was on. Clean looking paper pleats all around. Changed the filter and she returned to full glory.

Wrong blade type with your deck can degrade performance.

Slomo, if you had read the entire thread you would have seen that the engine is an L-head engine and it is mounted in a Simplicity tractor. The engine would have to be removed on most of these tractors to properly check clearance and will definitely need to be removed to pull and regrind valve stems. Have you ever adjusted valves on an L-head engine? I doubt it by the way your constant recommendation of always checking and adjusting valves. It takes longer to reset valves on a single cylinder L-head engine, than it takes to do both cylinders of an OHV engines, plus they take twice the mechanical expertise.

Yes L-heads are a lot more challenging to do the valves on. And considering this is '86 model even the valve guides may be worn along with the valve faces and seats.

What worst is that the exhaust valve PN isn't listed either.

Rivets said:

Slomo, if you had read the entire thread you would have seen that the engine is an L-head engine and it is mounted in a Simplicity tractor. The engine would have to be removed on most of these tractors to properly check clearance and will definitely need to be removed to pull and regrind valve stems. Have you ever adjusted valves on an L-head engine? I doubt it by the way your constant recommendation of always checking and adjusting valves. It takes longer to reset valves on a single cylinder L-head engine, than it takes to do both cylinders of an OHV engines, plus they take twice the mechanical expertise.

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Valve arrangement makes zero difference to me Rivets. If the OP doesn't choose to keep his machine in spec that's on him. I actually learned on L-heads. They like OHV's are simple.

Listing all the negative side effects doesn't help anyone. Got to crack an egg to make an omelette.

slomo said:

Valve arrangement makes zero difference to me Rivets. If the OP doesn't choose to keep his machine in spec that's on him. I actually learned on L-heads. They like OHV's are simple.

Listing all the negative side effects doesn't help anyone. Got to crack an egg to make an omelette.

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The difference is a DIYer normally don't have the proper tools at hand. And it not worth the expense of a one or two time use either. Valve seat renewing tools are not cheap. Then you need the correct reamers if valve guides are being replaced. And the person doing the valve adjustment got to be extremely careful as to not over file/grind the valve stem ends or it is new valves. And this case Briggs didn't even list the exhaust valves in the IPL; although, are probably the same as for another engine in this series.

But an OHV needs an adjustment it usually as simple as removing a rocker cover, adjust the rockers, and reseal the covers. Of the engine need to be at TDC + 1/4" down Compression stroke.

I doubt the manager at O'reilly Auto Parts that I dealt with yesterday could even do that.

Maybe it makes no difference to you, but you MUST put yourself on the DYI guys shoes when making recommendations. You may have worked on many L-head engines, but how many have you had to adjusted the valve clearance on? Back in the late 70’s I probably did more clearance adjustment on the them in a month than you have ever done. Grinding valve faces, seats, measuring, reaming and/or replacing valve guides, measuring and grinding stems were all part of the small engine repair curriculum. In this thread the OP was looking for directions as how to proceed with what he thought may be a problem. You suggest cracking the egg and looking to see if it is bad which does not make sense. I suggested to him not to crack the egg unless you have a reason to do so, to which many techs on this forum, who are smarter than me, agree with.

Rivets, Sometimes we just have to give up on hard heads. It like that O'reilly's manager yesterday. Everytime I buy parts from them I had to jump hoops to get the sales tax deleted. Yesterday was the last straw. Not only they refused to accept my sales tax certificate they had ordered my parts under another company's name. When paid for the parts yet again they charge sales tax even with the sales tax exempt form in front of them. Three years of fighting with them was enough. I just said goodbye and that I would not be back.

Mentioning hard heads my customer is just as hard headed and he insisted on me replacing that transhift cable. This time it is going to be painful. And hopefully painful enough that he carry the PU to someone else next.

I agree Star, but this guys head is harder than yours and mine melted together. Must be in the genes of those guys in California who are always the most “intelligent “. I’ve fought with is guy in the past and from what I’ve seen his customers are willing to pay his prices even though he charges for things that don’t need to be done. There’s one other member in California who has the same attitude. I’m glad that at my age and position I’m able to only repair the equipment I want to. I stopped charging labor and only for parts. Year round my frig and freezer stay full because things always magically appear in the shop. I don’t lock the door. Last week I finished a tractor check over, bill was $47.83 and when we came home from church found 10# of ground venison, 2# of cheese and a homemade apple pie. Life is good.
PS: I wonder if the guy has adjusted valves on a HIT N MISS engine? Bet he doesn’t know most are adjusted while the engine is running.

Well Rivets I never seen a Hit and Miss engine myself but have heard one in the area.

I can't be that generous as there are tools, supplies, etc. that must paid for but I did just finish last year's books at zero profit. I am planning for that happen for the next three tax years too. My way of protesting. Just can't see myself supporting a government that trying to down the low income group of tax payers at every step.

I have already had to buy nearly $200 in tools already this year and that with Inside Club membership at HFT. Luckily they were on sale when I needed them.

So my main income will be the monthly SS checks.

simpleandy said:

I have a 16 HP I/C engine in my Simplicity 5216H. Bought new in 1986. Engine model 402707 0145 01. The engine is getting a bit tired and I'd like to re-ring it. Compression is 90 lbs in both cylinders, factory cross hatching is still visible on the cylinder walls. The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power. I've been looking for rings but Briggs doesn't list a part number for rings for this engine. After looking at the various models listed in the factory service manual it looks like rings with a part number 393277 should fit this engine. Any thoughts out there on how I can make sure these rings will fit, or does anyone know what the part number is for rings for my engine? The engine is still together and blowing snow here in central New York. Any feedback will be appreciated.

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If you have 90lbs., don't bother tearing it down. You're not going to fix much. Keep good oil in it and keep the grass clippings cleaned out/off of it so it doesn't over heat.

First thing I thought was ..."Why"? it If it ain't broke don't fix it! proper maintenance goes a long lon

Rivets said:

Unless you’re experiencing problems, not just worrying about age or what might be, I would NOT recommend tearing into the engine. This could get expensive very easily. Here’s why.
1. If you’re doing one cylinder, best to do both. This would double cost.
2. I’ve rebuilt more engines than most people and have found if the cylinders are still in spec, they still need to be glazed honed. Would need to buy a one time use tool and after done what do yo do with it.
3. I’ve seen more than one time DIY guys do more harm than good if they are not experienced.
4. Do you do with the engine and piece of equipment if you do screw up.
5. You will also have to purchase gaskets, 2 head, 1 pan gasket, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, etc.
6. This is not a TWO hour job. Site unseen, I would normally soft quote 6-10 hours labor. I‘m never surprised by what I find after I start. More than once I’ve had to call the customer and say, “it’s not worth it.
I recommend you think long and hard before starting this project, just my opinion.

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g w

Rivets said:

Unless you’re experiencing problems, not just worrying about age or what might be, I would NOT recommend tearing into the engine. This could get expensive very easily. Here’s why.
1. If you’re doing one cylinder, best to do both. This would double cost.
2. I’ve rebuilt more engines than most people and have found if the cylinders are still in spec, they still need to be glazed honed. Would need to buy a one time use tool and after done what do yo do with it.
3. I’ve seen more than one time DIY guys do more harm than good if they are not experienced.
4. Do you do with the engine and piece of equipment if you do screw up.
5. You will also have to purchase gaskets, 2 head, 1 pan gasket, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, etc.
6. This is not a TWO hour job. Site unseen, I would normally soft quote 6-10 hours labor. I‘m never surprised by what I find after I start. More than once I’ve had to call the customer and say, “it’s not worth it.
I recommend you think long and hard before starting this project, just my opinion.

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First thing I thought was "Why"? what would make you tear something apart that is working just fine?? If it ain't broke don't fix it. proper maintenance goes a long , long way....be safe and well out there everyone

simpleandy said:

I have a 16 HP I/C engine in my Simplicity 5216H. Bought new in 1986. Engine model 402707 0145 01. The engine is getting a bit tired and I'd like to re-ring it. Compression is 90 lbs in both cylinders, factory cross hatching is still visible on the cylinder walls. The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power. I've been looking for rings but Briggs doesn't list a part number for rings for this engine. After looking at the various models listed in the factory service manual it looks like rings with a part number 393277 should fit this engine. Any thoughts out there on how I can make sure these rings will fit, or does anyone know what the part number is for rings for my engine? The engine is still together and blowing snow here in central New York. Any feedback will be appreciated.

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I think you should leave the Engine alone.

simpleandy said:

I have a 16 HP I/C engine in my Simplicity 5216H. Bought new in 1986. Engine model 402707 0145 01. The engine is getting a bit tired and I'd like to re-ring it. Compression is 90 lbs in both cylinders, factory cross hatching is still visible on the cylinder walls. The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power. I've been looking for rings but Briggs doesn't list a part number for rings for this engine. After looking at the various models listed in the factory service manual it looks like rings with a part number 393277 should fit this engine. Any thoughts out there on how I can make sure these rings will fit, or does anyone know what the part number is for rings for my engine? The engine is still together and blowing snow here in central New York. Any feedback will be appreciated.

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394959 is std rings for 18 to 20 hp

I've more than once had the experience of "It wasn't broke UNTIL I fixed it"

simpleandy said:

Thanks slomo. I will check valve clearance. Easier than a big teardown. I do keep the cooling fins and block clean. And, my 45 year old Craftsman compression tester seems to works pretty well on everything: 1974 Sportster, '69 Charger (440 CI) and all small engines . Appreciate the feedback.

Click to expand...

Before adjusting the valves, loosen the adjustment and rotate them some to clean off any accumulated carbon. Also, a light tap with a small hammer in the direction they open will help jar any carbon loose. Also, is there an automatic compression release? It will cause a low reading. A real pain on my 15hp Kohler! I would not tear into a good-running engine with no smoke. With the experience you listed, I'm sure you know how to squirt some oil into the cylinder and check compression to see if rings are the problem?

Old thread.

Might just be throttle/governor linkage adjustments. (engine rpms too low at max throttle.
The adjustment procedures are listed in the Briggs L-head SERVICE manual.

Forest#2 said:

Old thread.

Might just be throttle/governor linkage adjustments. (engine rpms too low at max throttle.
The adjustment procedures are listed in the Briggs L-head SERVICE manual.

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NLA on the rings, a new engine will be your best bet, $ wise & less down time.

simpleandy said:

I have a 16 HP I/C engine in my Simplicity 5216H. Bought new in 1986. Engine model 402707 0145 01. The engine is getting a bit tired and I'd like to re-ring it. Compression is 90 lbs in both cylinders, factory cross hatching is still visible on the cylinder walls. The engine runs fine, just down a bit on power. I've been looking for rings but Briggs doesn't list a part number for rings for this engine. After looking at the various models listed in the factory service manual it looks like rings with a part number 393277 should fit this engine. Any thoughts out there on how I can make sure these rings will fit, or does anyone know what the part number is for rings for my engine? The engine is still together and blowing snow here in central New York. Any feedback will be appreciated.

Click to expand...

simpleandy said:

Rivets and Tiger: I agree 100%. The engine runs good and I don't need to tear it down for naught. As an old friend and great mechanic says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I appreciate all the feedback and input. Meanwhile, I'll be fixing the rear tire that went flat while snowblowing this morning Always something.

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90 is just fine. Unless you're blowing out copius amounts of smoke and using oil like crazy. FYI.....in a lot of Continental piston aircraft engines the absolute minimum is 40lb, not the differential testers 40. Combustion pressures will push the rings into the cylinder wall and you'll have a much higher effective cylinder pressure if the ring lands aren't badly worn or the rings aren't broken.

Try a leak down test on both cylinders. More accurate than compression especially for ring leak.

Make sure you have the throttle wide open while doing the test as well as all the other spark plugs out to reduce rolling resistance . Put the plugs in the caps and lay them on the heads while doing it . Jmho

Run it!

slomo said:

Proper valve adjustment on the tight side of in-tolerance would be advised. See what you get after with a compression gauge FOR SMALL ENGINES. Not some 454 chevy compression gauge with a foot long hose.

View attachment 70468

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Even if you used a compression gauge with a hose a mile long, the reading would be the same as one with a short hose like the one in the picture. It just would take longer to measure it. Think of it as inflating a tire: with the same supply pressure, the same tire pressure will be reached, but a big tire takes more time to fill.

If you still see cross hatching and have 90 PSI compression with a compression release properly working, the rings are probably fine. However, if not and B&S does not sell them any longer, you may find some by a ring maker that are close enough to be file-fit to size. See, for example, https://hastingspistonrings.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2022-AMERICAS-MASTER-CATALOG.pdf

If you have not done it recently, the valve work suggested previously could go a long way toward making the engine run better.

BRIGGS AND STRATTON 16HP & 18HP TWIN OPPOSED TWIN L HEAD 392331 piston rings
You tube channel has a few rebuild videos

simpleandy said:

Compression was done dry. Six or seven cranks with electric starter (until reading reached max).

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Throttle plate and choke plate fully open while cranking?