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Bad Boy, Scag, Kubota or Hustler???
#1
J
Jazzguitar67
J
Jazzguitar67
Hello, Forum.....
I am new to the world of commercial zero turns. I recently bought a property that is VERY hilly and has lots of obstacles - trees, chicken coops,fences, beds, decks,etc. It is about 2 acres. I have tried to mow with a small Cub Cadet ztr for the last year, but the hills and obstacles proved too much for it and the left hydro died. I'm going to use whatever mower I get about 2-3 hours a week. I want it to last 10-15 years and, while it won't get many hours, it will get bumps and bruises because of the hills and rough terrain.
Now, I am on a quest for an "entry level" commercial unit. Today, I checked out the Bad Boy Rebel, the Kubota Z421, a Scag Patriot and a Hustler SDX. I need some advice??!!
To me,the Bad Boy Rebel seems like waaaayyyy more mower for the money. Equipped with a 61" deck and a Kawasaki FX850V/27HP motor,it's priced at my nearest dealer for $7700. It has ZT-4400 hydros, the deck seems to be the strongest/heaviest of all of them, the tires are nice and wide with a tread that looks like it will handle my hills and obstacles very well, I'm impressed by the ease of service and adjustability of the machine. The only negative that I have is the convenience of the Bad Boy dealer - it's about an hour from me. If they were local, I'd probably own the mower right now.
The Scag Patriot has a lighter deck, ZT-3400 hydros and an FX730V/23.5 HP Kawasaki and it's priced at $7800.
The Hustler SDX equipped with the exact same drives and motor as the Scag and is $8300
The Kubota Z421 with a 24HP Kawasaki GH7301 motor and ZT-3600 Hydros is $6900. The dealer is both the biggest and the closest, but the mower seems the "lightest duty" of all of them. The dealer has a great reputation but is big. Really big. I know that can be both good and bad. I also don't know what's up with the Kawasaki GH series motor. No one else seems to use them??? To me, it seems that if the Bad Boy wasn't made, this would be the best value for me and the most convenient option.
As an aside, I could also get a Bad Boy Maverick w/ the same Kawasaki FX730 motor and ZT-3200 hydros for$6100. I suspect it would be strong enough for my property and it would be about $800 less than my next-cheapest option. Is this worth considering?
So....here's the thing. The Scag, Hustler and Kubota dealers were all very complimentary about each others' mowers, but they all trash talked the Bad Boy. When I asked specific questions, they told me that Bad Boy doesn't make "commercial" mowers - but to me, the specs on the Rebel make it look much tougher built than all the others. The engine and drive components are better, the deck is thicker and the spindles seem stronger. The Bad Boy salesperson was knowledgeable, but none of the other sales people wanted to spend time to educate me. They all seemed fine with me buying either the Scag, Kubota or Hustler, but they all tried to steer me away from the Bad Boy. When pressed for specific reasons, all they said was: "what brands to you see on all the landscape trailers?"
From all the reviews available online, I don't think I can make a "bad" choice if I choose the Kubota, Scag or Hustler. They all seem to be quality machines. There are few reviews of the Bad Boy - so I'm a little worried about that one, even though it's the machine I like the best and I think is the best value. I'm not a "price" shopper, but I am a "value" shopper. I want a quality product at a fair price and I'm willing to pay more for quality if someone can convince me it's worth it.
I need advice from people here regarding the Bad Boy (should I even consider it) and the other mowers. Again, what i like about the Bad Boy is that it's got a heavier deck, stronger motor, stronger hydros, more accessible engine bay, more adjustability, better tires and it's HEAVIER. It's about 1300lbs and all the others are around 900lbs. I can change the oil, filters, hydro oil and blades myself-so ease of doing that is important to me. I can remove the deck belt shrouds with no tools, adjust hydro tracking with no tools. There are adjustments for both "force" and "sensitivity" on the drive levers. It has an adjustable deck height pedal, adjustable foot rest and the disconnect levers for the hyrdro drives (so the machine can be pushed) are super-accessible and require no tools to disconnect.
I could use some feedback as to peoples' experience with all the mowers I'm considering and exactly what I should be looking at that isn't on the spec sheets of each mower.
Thanks, in advance, for your help!
I am new to the world of commercial zero turns. I recently bought a property that is VERY hilly and has lots of obstacles - trees, chicken coops,fences, beds, decks,etc. It is about 2 acres. I have tried to mow with a small Cub Cadet ztr for the last year, but the hills and obstacles proved too much for it and the left hydro died. I'm going to use whatever mower I get about 2-3 hours a week. I want it to last 10-15 years and, while it won't get many hours, it will get bumps and bruises because of the hills and rough terrain.
Now, I am on a quest for an "entry level" commercial unit. Today, I checked out the Bad Boy Rebel, the Kubota Z421, a Scag Patriot and a Hustler SDX. I need some advice??!!
To me,the Bad Boy Rebel seems like waaaayyyy more mower for the money. Equipped with a 61" deck and a Kawasaki FX850V/27HP motor,it's priced at my nearest dealer for $7700. It has ZT-4400 hydros, the deck seems to be the strongest/heaviest of all of them, the tires are nice and wide with a tread that looks like it will handle my hills and obstacles very well, I'm impressed by the ease of service and adjustability of the machine. The only negative that I have is the convenience of the Bad Boy dealer - it's about an hour from me. If they were local, I'd probably own the mower right now.
The Scag Patriot has a lighter deck, ZT-3400 hydros and an FX730V/23.5 HP Kawasaki and it's priced at $7800.
The Hustler SDX equipped with the exact same drives and motor as the Scag and is $8300
The Kubota Z421 with a 24HP Kawasaki GH7301 motor and ZT-3600 Hydros is $6900. The dealer is both the biggest and the closest, but the mower seems the "lightest duty" of all of them. The dealer has a great reputation but is big. Really big. I know that can be both good and bad. I also don't know what's up with the Kawasaki GH series motor. No one else seems to use them??? To me, it seems that if the Bad Boy wasn't made, this would be the best value for me and the most convenient option.
As an aside, I could also get a Bad Boy Maverick w/ the same Kawasaki FX730 motor and ZT-3200 hydros for$6100. I suspect it would be strong enough for my property and it would be about $800 less than my next-cheapest option. Is this worth considering?
So....here's the thing. The Scag, Hustler and Kubota dealers were all very complimentary about each others' mowers, but they all trash talked the Bad Boy. When I asked specific questions, they told me that Bad Boy doesn't make "commercial" mowers - but to me, the specs on the Rebel make it look much tougher built than all the others. The engine and drive components are better, the deck is thicker and the spindles seem stronger. The Bad Boy salesperson was knowledgeable, but none of the other sales people wanted to spend time to educate me. They all seemed fine with me buying either the Scag, Kubota or Hustler, but they all tried to steer me away from the Bad Boy. When pressed for specific reasons, all they said was: "what brands to you see on all the landscape trailers?"
From all the reviews available online, I don't think I can make a "bad" choice if I choose the Kubota, Scag or Hustler. They all seem to be quality machines. There are few reviews of the Bad Boy - so I'm a little worried about that one, even though it's the machine I like the best and I think is the best value. I'm not a "price" shopper, but I am a "value" shopper. I want a quality product at a fair price and I'm willing to pay more for quality if someone can convince me it's worth it.
I need advice from people here regarding the Bad Boy (should I even consider it) and the other mowers. Again, what i like about the Bad Boy is that it's got a heavier deck, stronger motor, stronger hydros, more accessible engine bay, more adjustability, better tires and it's HEAVIER. It's about 1300lbs and all the others are around 900lbs. I can change the oil, filters, hydro oil and blades myself-so ease of doing that is important to me. I can remove the deck belt shrouds with no tools, adjust hydro tracking with no tools. There are adjustments for both "force" and "sensitivity" on the drive levers. It has an adjustable deck height pedal, adjustable foot rest and the disconnect levers for the hyrdro drives (so the machine can be pushed) are super-accessible and require no tools to disconnect.
I could use some feedback as to peoples' experience with all the mowers I'm considering and exactly what I should be looking at that isn't on the spec sheets of each mower.
Thanks, in advance, for your help!
#2
H
Hardluck
H
Hardluck
If you can service it and do light mechanical work on it I would get the BadBoy. Get the biggest Hydro pumps you can if you are stressing it on hills, with the load.
How often do you take you current mower the the dealer? If you have to go to dealer a lot then you better buy from a close dealer though.
How often do you take you current mower the the dealer? If you have to go to dealer a lot then you better buy from a close dealer though.
#3
Mower King
Mower King
Sounds like you have already talked your way into a Bad Boy....and I agree, we are a Bad Boy Dealer and sell a TON of them and I can say...it's one company that DOES improve there equipment every year!
Some of the reason other sellers don't like Bad Boy is, Bad Boy is advertised all over the place, TV, BIG racing events, BIG rodeos and more. Well, the others just don't do that.
My only advice is, to buy from a dealership and NOT a box store.....box stores DO NOT do any repairs on Warranties!
But...I believe box stores are are regulated to sell the Maverick and lower models so....the REBEL will be at a Dealership!
Yes....that REBEL is a WELL BUILT, MOWING MONSTER!
Some of the reason other sellers don't like Bad Boy is, Bad Boy is advertised all over the place, TV, BIG racing events, BIG rodeos and more. Well, the others just don't do that.
My only advice is, to buy from a dealership and NOT a box store.....box stores DO NOT do any repairs on Warranties!
But...I believe box stores are are regulated to sell the Maverick and lower models so....the REBEL will be at a Dealership!
Yes....that REBEL is a WELL BUILT, MOWING MONSTER!
#4
J
Jazzguitar67
J
Jazzguitar67
My current mower is a 15-year old, residential Cub Cadet - an RZT50. It's crap with a stamped deck and EZT transmissions. Every time I bump something, the deck goes out of whack. They hydros never track straight and the left one is weak after about 20 minutes of mowing. I don't think I'd be at the dealer much at all if I had a heavy machine.If you can service it and do light mechanical work on it I would get the BadBoy. Get the biggest Hydro pumps you can if you are stressing it on hills, with the load.
How often do you take you current mower the the dealer? If you have to go to dealer a lot then you better buy from a close dealer though.
#5
Mower King
Mower King
A REBEL is light years ahead of a RZT 50......we are a Cub C dealer also!My current mower is a 15-year old, residential Cub Cadet - an RZT50. It's crap with a stamped deck and EZT transmissions. Every time I bump something, the deck goes out of whack. They hydros never track straight and the left one is weak after about 20 minutes of mowing. I don't think I'd be at the dealer much at all if I had a heavy machine.
#6
J
Jazzguitar67
So, the way I see it is if everyone uses the same Kawasaki motors, and the same Hydro Gear transmissions, then I should be looking at the differences in decks, frames and spindles....right?
From what I see, the Bad Boy totally destroys everyone else in those categories! Am I missing something?
J
Jazzguitar67
I know!A REBEL is light years ahead of a RZT 50......we are a Cub C dealer also!
So, the way I see it is if everyone uses the same Kawasaki motors, and the same Hydro Gear transmissions, then I should be looking at the differences in decks, frames and spindles....right?
From what I see, the Bad Boy totally destroys everyone else in those categories! Am I missing something?
#7
Mower King
Mower King
You are correct!I know!
So, the way I see it is if everyone uses the same Kawasaki motors, and the same Hydro Gear transmissions, then I should be looking at the differences in decks, frames and spindles....right?
From what I see, the Bad Boy totally destroys everyone else in those categories! Am I missing something?
#8
wrldtvlr
wrldtvlr
I think you need to define "very hilly." Is it as in lots of ups/downs, or as in steep slope?
#9
J
Jazzguitar67
J
Jazzguitar67
Not lots of ups and downs and not crazy, crazy steep.....just long and steep, nothing level. Telephone poles, mailboxes, lots of trees, flower beds, fences, big rocks, stumps, sheds, decks....lots of obstacles and long, steep stretches of grass. See the pictures.I think you need to define "very hilly." Is it as in lots of ups/downs, or as in steep slope?
Attachments
#10
wrldtvlr
wrldtvlr
Hills are tough to judge in photos. This one is pretty bang on 20 degrees - I measured to confirm. My experience has been trying to run a mower with freewheeling front casters on anything over 15 degrees is tough to do. The drive wheels have to compensate for the front end wanting to drop, so they tend to tear up the turf, and things really need to be bone dry to stop sliding, especially turning on the hillside. You mentioned having a Cub Cadet. I also have one, but as you can see, it has a steerable front end which works much better on slopes. If budget had permitted, I would have liked the Pro Z 154, or if I had just won the lottery, the Pro Z 972.
#11
cpurvis
cpurvis
You should consider a mower with a horizontal crankshaft engine. Vertical crankshaft engines don't have the deep sump that horizontals do and lose lubrication if tilted too much, especially if low on oil. Scag, Grasshopper and Kubota make mowers with horizontal shaft engines but they are not low priced. I'm sure other manufacturers do, too. Horizontal shaft engines are usually water cooled and last longer than air cooled engines, especially on slopes.
#12
Mower King
Mower King
Get the REBEL....and you won't look back!
#13
wrldtvlr
wrldtvlr
Unfortunately, the budget could only stretch this far. I did check the specs though. CC says this mower is rated for 20 degrees, and the Kawasaki manual says the engine is good to 25, so I'm hoping I'll get a reasonable life out of it.You should consider a mower with a horizontal crankshaft engine. Vertical crankshaft engines don't have the deep sump that horizontals do and lose lubrication if tilted too much, especially if low on oil. Scag, Grasshopper and Kubota make mowers with horizontal shaft engines but they are not low priced. I'm sure other manufacturers do, too. Horizontal shaft engines are usually water cooled and last longer than air cooled engines, especially on slopes.
#14
cpurvis
I understand the budget thing but sometimes it ends up being false economy. It wouldn't cost the OP a dime to have a dealer take a look at his yard and make a recommendation.
cpurvis
I was replying to the OP. Sorry I didn't make that clear.Unfortunately, the budget could only stretch this far. I did check the specs though. CC says this mower is rated for 20 degrees, and the Kawasaki manual says the engine is good to 25, so I'm hoping I'll get a reasonable life out of it.
I understand the budget thing but sometimes it ends up being false economy. It wouldn't cost the OP a dime to have a dealer take a look at his yard and make a recommendation.
#15
tom3
tom3
I wonder about the 60"+ deck with all that mowing around stuff? But I do like the big hydros on the Bad Boy, and I'd sure double check the mower being bought to insure that it does have that back there.
#16
J
Jazzguitar67
Of all the dealerships, Cub is most-convenient to me. They're very close - like I could almost ride the mower to the dealership from my house. I have spent a lot of time there looking closely at their product. The new Cubs just don't impress me in build quality at all.
I can mow mostly up and down the hills, I only have a small patch where I need to mow sideways. I think I would be fine with traditional ZTR controls. I will measure the slope angle to make sure I'm good there. I can tell you that I went through two complete mowing seasons with that 15 year old Cub that had a residential Briggs on it and I never had any problems. The engine ran totally smooth.
J
Jazzguitar67
I have looked at the Cub Cadets and, while I like the steering wheel idea, they just don't seem to be built very strong until you get into that commercial series and they just don't seem to be a good value. The Pro Z 160 is $8000 and has a 10 gauge deck (the Bad Boy is a 5 gauge deck), ZT-3400 transmissions, (the Bad Boy has ZT4400s), aluminum spindles (the Bad Boy has tensile steel spindles) and the Cub has a Kohler engine (the Bad Boy has a Kawasaki) . The Bad Boy is less money for way more mower.You should consider a mower with a horizontal crankshaft engine. Vertical crankshaft engines don't have the deep sump that horizontals do and lose lubrication if tilted too much, especially if low on oil. Scag, Grasshopper and Kubota make mowers with horizontal shaft engines but they are not low priced. I'm sure other manufacturers do, too. Horizontal shaft engines are usually water cooled and last longer than air cooled engines, especially on slopes.
Of all the dealerships, Cub is most-convenient to me. They're very close - like I could almost ride the mower to the dealership from my house. I have spent a lot of time there looking closely at their product. The new Cubs just don't impress me in build quality at all.
I can mow mostly up and down the hills, I only have a small patch where I need to mow sideways. I think I would be fine with traditional ZTR controls. I will measure the slope angle to make sure I'm good there. I can tell you that I went through two complete mowing seasons with that 15 year old Cub that had a residential Briggs on it and I never had any problems. The engine ran totally smooth.
#17
Mower King
Mower King
The lap bar zero-turn mower will be just fine....there is a reason MOST ALL people have them, there is no comparison!
#18
SDH
SDH
I agree. I've spent alot of time comparing features, quality of build, durability and reputation. Bad Boy is hard to beat, especially for value. There are a lot of good machines and a lot of opinions. That being said, Bad Boy makes good Zero Turns.Hello, Forum.....
I am new to the world of commercial zero turns. I recently bought a property that is VERY hilly and has lots of obstacles - trees, chicken coops,fences, beds, decks,etc. It is about 2 acres. I have tried to mow with a small Cub Cadet ztr for the last year, but the hills and obstacles proved too much for it and the left hydro died. I'm going to use whatever mower I get about 2-3 hours a week. I want it to last 10-15 years and, while it won't get many hours, it will get bumps and bruises because of the hills and rough terrain.
Now, I am on a quest for an "entry level" commercial unit. Today, I checked out the Bad Boy Rebel, the Kubota Z421, a Scag Patriot and a Hustler SDX. I need some advice??!!
To me,the Bad Boy Rebel seems like waaaayyyy more mower for the money. Equipped with a 61" deck and a Kawasaki FX850V/27HP motor,it's priced at my nearest dealer for $7700. It has ZT-4400 hydros, the deck seems to be the strongest/heaviest of all of them, the tires are nice and wide with a tread that looks like it will handle my hills and obstacles very well, I'm impressed by the ease of service and adjustability of the machine. The only negative that I have is the convenience of the Bad Boy dealer - it's about an hour from me. If they were local, I'd probably own the mower right now.
The Scag Patriot has a lighter deck, ZT-3400 hydros and an FX730V/23.5 HP Kawasaki and it's priced at $7800.
The Hustler SDX equipped with the exact same drives and motor as the Scag and is $8300
The Kubota Z421 with a 24HP Kawasaki GH7301 motor and ZT-3600 Hydros is $6900. The dealer is both the biggest and the closest, but the mower seems the "lightest duty" of all of them. The dealer has a great reputation but is big. Really big. I know that can be both good and bad. I also don't know what's up with the Kawasaki GH series motor. No one else seems to use them??? To me, it seems that if the Bad Boy wasn't made, this would be the best value for me and the most convenient option.
As an aside, I could also get a Bad Boy Maverick w/ the same Kawasaki FX730 motor and ZT-3200 hydros for$6100. I suspect it would be strong enough for my property and it would be about $800 less than my next-cheapest option. Is this worth considering?
So....here's the thing. The Scag, Hustler and Kubota dealers were all very complimentary about each others' mowers, but they all trash talked the Bad Boy. When I asked specific questions, they told me that Bad Boy doesn't make "commercial" mowers - but to me, the specs on the Rebel make it look much tougher built than all the others. The engine and drive components are better, the deck is thicker and the spindles seem stronger. The Bad Boy salesperson was knowledgeable, but none of the other sales people wanted to spend time to educate me. They all seemed fine with me buying either the Scag, Kubota or Hustler, but they all tried to steer me away from the Bad Boy. When pressed for specific reasons, all they said was: "what brands to you see on all the landscape trailers?"
From all the reviews available online, I don't think I can make a "bad" choice if I choose the Kubota, Scag or Hustler. They all seem to be quality machines. There are few reviews of the Bad Boy - so I'm a little worried about that one, even though it's the machine I like the best and I think is the best value. I'm not a "price" shopper, but I am a "value" shopper. I want a quality product at a fair price and I'm willing to pay more for quality if someone can convince me it's worth it.
I need advice from people here regarding the Bad Boy (should I even consider it) and the other mowers. Again, what i like about the Bad Boy is that it's got a heavier deck, stronger motor, stronger hydros, more accessible engine bay, more adjustability, better tires and it's HEAVIER. It's about 1300lbs and all the others are around 900lbs. I can change the oil, filters, hydro oil and blades myself-so ease of doing that is important to me. I can remove the deck belt shrouds with no tools, adjust hydro tracking with no tools. There are adjustments for both "force" and "sensitivity" on the drive levers. It has an adjustable deck height pedal, adjustable foot rest and the disconnect levers for the hyrdro drives (so the machine can be pushed) are super-accessible and require no tools to disconnect.
I could use some feedback as to peoples' experience with all the mowers I'm considering and exactly what I should be looking at that isn't on the spec sheets of each mower.
Thanks, in advance, for your help!
#19
F
fatoldfool
F
fatoldfool
Had two Hustlers, gave ups some work and sold them, bought a Cub Cadet ZT2. First and last Cub Cadet. At 77 yrs old I will probably never buy another mower, but if I do it WILL be Hustler.
#20
Ron3
Ron3
I agree. I've spent alot of time comparing features, quality of build, durability and reputation. Bad Boy is hard to beat, especially for value. There are a lot of good machines and a lot of opinions. That being said, Bad Boy makes good Zero Turns.
#21
Ron3
Ron3
Trust youself rather than internet trolls.they are all good mowers, Bad boy is just not flavor of the week.
#22
R
randy58
R
randy58
That looks like a lot of grass that you have to cut and also hilly. I would get the Bad Boy Rebel with the 4400 hydros. That is plenty strong cause you going to be running that mower for a while to cut all that grass. Heat is what destroys those smaller hydros when you run them for a long period of time but the 4400 hydros will handle it.