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B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B & S???

Hi all!
been researching the issue with our Husq rider mower that basically has a ruined engine despite careful meticulous maintenance and ONLY 200 hours of use. The authorized repair shop says the rings are shot, and the number 1 piston is bad, 'slopping' around in the cylinder..This is our second problem with this model engine, the first lasted 80 hours in another mower, but we blamed ourselves , not knowing the problem with this engine. It looks like several folks with this same engine and problem have gotten B & S to replace the engine at no cost to them despite being out of warranty.
However, we can't seem to find that 'pathway' to this solution! Who to call? We've tried the regular call B & S route but we get the runaround, where they say they don't 'know' of this issue!

It appears that this particular design and model had an inferior air filter system that allowed dirt to get past it into the engine. Additionally , there seems to be a problem with the oil pump being unable to deliver adequate oil to the number one cylinder when riding on hills..Being in Tn we have hills....nothing serious, but hills nonetheless..

any help anyone can give us is appreciated. We're seniors, don't have alot of expendable dough, and feel that a $1700 mower should last longer than 200 hours. Are we being unreasonable??

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

I would e-mail them. They've always been helpful to me over e-mail, even when asking odd questions about old equipment that is long out of warranty.

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Your engine should definitely last longer. There's 20 year old B&S engines still kicking around doing perfectly adequate jobs.

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

Well here I go again. Your experience sounds like mine. If you search this forum you will find a whole string of threads relating to my 24 Intek which also failed with about the same hours, but for a different reason.

The loose piston: When replacing the air filter there are warnings about "seeing the two yellow nubbins" (my words). What this is about is that the filter has foam seams on both sides which must mate perfectly with the intake surface and the intake "cap" which has the two hold down screws. This is not so easy to achieve and I still fuss with this one after 9 years of ownership. The design changed . I'm guessing because of this. The second reason I will suggest for bore wear is bad factory assembly of the goose neck tube , crank case to intake down-tract. With the air cleaner off look down , engine side, and see it. What happened to mine (and others in this forum) is that during factory assembly the neck part which seals with an annular rubber seal was not fully seated at the bottom side of the tube (that's right, you cannot see it looking down, but must feel under it). For months I had a filthy intake tract. The engine was sucking dirt at that point, but I kept suspecting the air filter. Mother nature's grit will quickly destroy ring and bore surface. How my Intek survived that is not known.

What killed mine is valve train failure. See this forum for pictures. Briggs is like any corporation and is bunkered-in by company policy. I kept calling and finally coaxed a po box no. out of a contact I somehow made. When I sent him the camshaft so he could have a neat desk paper weight I soon had a new set of heads and total reimbursement for other parts I had bought to tear down and reassemble the engine (gaskets, cam etc). I am a private party. After being on this forum for a couple years I understand now that Briggs has many such paperweights. What is sad is that after the problems the Intek is pretty happy and reliable, but it runs too hot. If you do not have a dealer to plead your case and do not work on such things I don't know what to suggest.

Edit: I am not in the habit of defending Briggs, but I have not had oil starvation. My engine has an oil cooler (longer oil path and uphill) ,but has no problem maintaining 35-40 psi even at sump temperatures of 270F + . I assume you carefully watch oil level. If your piston/bore was weak the engine was (is) both burning and throwing excess oil which requires even more attention to sump level. I am leery of giving you the name of my contact as it could jeopardize his job. We know how jobs are in this economy.

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

motoman said:

Well here I go again. Your experience sounds like mine. If you search this forum you will find a whole string of threads relating to my 24 Intek which also failed with about the same hours, but for a different reason.

The loose piston: When replacing the air filter there are warnings about "seeing the two yellow nubbins" (my words). What this is about is that the filter has foam seams on both sides which must mate perfectly with the intake surface and the intake "cap" which has the two hold down screws. This is not so easy to achieve and I still fuss with this one after 9 years of ownership. The design changed . I'm guessing because of this. The second reason I will suggest for bore wear is bad factory assembly of the goose neck tube , crank case to intake down-tract. With the air cleaner off look down , engine side, and see it. What happened to mine (and others in this forum) is that during factory assembly the neck part which seals with an annular rubber seal was not fully seated at the bottom side of the tube (that's right, you cannot see it looking down, but must feel under it). For months I had a filthy intake tract. The engine was sucking dirt at that point, but I kept suspecting the air filter. Mother nature's grit will quickly destroy ring and bore surface. How my Intek survived that is not known.

What killed mine is valve train failure. See this forum for pictures. Briggs is like any corporation and is bunkered-in by company policy. I kept calling and finally coaxed a po box no. out of a contact I somehow made. When I sent him the camshaft so he could have a neat desk paper weight I soon had a new set of heads and total reimbursement for other parts I had bought to tear down and reassemble the engine (gaskets, cam etc). I am a private party. After being on this forum for a couple years I understand now that Briggs has many such paperweights. What is sad is that after the problems the Intek is pretty happy and reliable, but it runs too hot. If you do not have a dealer to plead your case and do not work on such things I don't know what to suggest.

Edit: I am not in the habit of defending Briggs, but I have not had oil starvation. My engine has an oil cooler (longer oil path and uphill) ,but has no problem maintaining 35-40 psi even at sump temperatures of 270F + . I assume you carefully watch oil level. If your piston/bore was weak the engine was (is) both burning and throwing excess oil which requires even more attention to sump level. I am leery of giving you the name of my contact as it could jeopardize his job. We know how jobs are in this economy.

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Ok...update...We contacted the repair shop after talking to Briggs on the phone. The Briggs guy said the authorized shop had to call warranty to discuss the condition of the engine and their evaluation. he would not come right out and admit that this engine has a problem. Our engine is the four bolt air filter model that HE said had 'never had any issues'..
The repair shop reluctantly agreed to call. Whether they did or not we don't know, becuase they called us back later saying that...miraculously the Briggs rep had showed up at their shop and he looked at the engine (now in pieces) and said that it 'was owner neglect and lack of maintenance becuase there was DIRT in the engine'....How in the world do you fight these guys? I can't prove we changed the oil regularly, can't prove anything we did since we did it ourselves (learned our lesson THERE!)...
And he also said the four bolt was not a problem engine...So I took the above poster's advice and EMAILED the customer serv dept. We'll see what happens..

Now, here's the scary part. We have another Husq at our little house in town that a friend lives in..(we live in the country on a farm) so we went over to pick it up so I could get my lawn mowed here at home. He had just finished mowing the little 1/4 ac lawn there.
When I tried to mow here at home, the throttle seemed like it was only halfway up. Couldn't get it to power up despite the lever showing 'rabbit'...So husband took off the hood. oila..oil all over the front of the engine...
This is Husq number THREE that has had motor issues, first one with 80hours and seized up, second in the shop now in pieces at 225 hrs, and this one showing definitate issues at 286 hrs..The last one is newer than the one in pieces, but now what do we do????? Isn't three in a row some sort of NON COINCIDENCE???? all had the same Intek V Twin..the last one is a 24 hp but otherwise is the same as far as we can tell....
Hubby is no mechanic but he is going to try and get the throttle to power up later today once he can figure out 'why' it won't...he can make it power up manually at the point it's at the engine, but the throttle lever can't seem to be adjusted to keep it up...
and what's the scoop on oil all over the front of the engine?????????grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

Grrrrr, indeed. Seems like your service company is a bit weak kneed....I can only say that (I guess) the vast majority of owners unfortunately do not maintain their machines so that is the mind set of the factory reps. Seems like with several mowers you should have had a good relationship with your service source. Also a little surprised if you get so little satisfaction from Husqy. My Craftsman DYT 4000 with Intek 24 now is 9 years old with over 400 hours. I mow 2 acres of grass and weeds. Soon I will publish heat readings for the head which I (theorize) is not cooled sufficiently. At least , so far , you have not lost valves, have you?

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

motoman said:

Grrrrr, indeed. Seems like your service company is a bit weak kneed....I can only say that (I guess) the vast majority of owners unfortunately do not maintain their machines so that is the mind set of the factory reps. Seems like with several mowers you should have had a good relationship with your service source. Also a little surprised if you get so little satisfaction from Husqy. My Craftsman DYT 4000 with Intek 24 now is 9 years old with over 400 hours. I mow 2 acres of grass and weeds. Soon I will publish heat readings for the head which I (theorize) is not cooled sufficiently. At least , so far , you have not lost valves, have you?

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Well, this is the first time we've used this repair shop.We have moved since the first mower, and anyway that mower that 'died' I blamed on my husband for 'not checking the oil'. However, he had checked and serviced the unit at the beginning of the season and I had only used the mower about 3-4 times. We found, after it quit, that it was bone dry...and oil all over the engine...still we blamed ourselves and sold it for parts. In hindsight, it now seems very strange that the machine would be completely without oil after just 3-4 uses..

we learned from that, (or so we thought) and with this 'new' Husq #2, we have been religious in checking, changing etc so that we didn't mess up again. Apparently irelevent as it began smoking and using oil DURING mowing, about a pint in a half hour on one occasion. (the first one never gave a hint, it just seized up while using it).So as soon as this started, we wanted to catch something before it cost a fortune to fix, and hauled it in to the service shop recommended by friends.
Had taken good care of the 'in town' Husq #3, as we do maintain our stuff, but were really gun shy now, and paranoid careful as to the first one dying so suddently..But we had not seen Husq #3 since this mowing season started because our friend mows the in town lawn with it. Hence being unaware of the throttle issue and mess on the engine until today when we brought it out to the farm.

I have not tried to contact Husq since these are engine issues...But maybe I should try? Just at wits end as to what to do next. To think of the money spent on these THREE machines in 9 years, three mowers!...what am I missing here? and didn't mowers use to last longer? We are seniors and have been taking care of our own yards since teenagers..don't remember the mowers being finicky, or requiring more than adequate maintenance, and they seemed to last for years...now, two years is all we can expect from a $1600 mower?
I am thinking about getting a simple $900 Ariens (sadly with a B&S motor) that doesn't even have an oil filter..so when it croaks in 2-3 yrs I guess I just have to buy another? Or move to a condo...
any ideas would be appreciated..
also, the repair shop tore the motor down to 'diagnose' our initial complaint. We had only asked for a diagnosis..They told us in the beginning they would not have to tear it down. They said they thought it was going to turn out to be a head gasket. And when it wasn't they kept going I guess, but they never called us until the thing was in pieces..The mower was running 'fine' (despite the symptoms) when we brought it in. Since we declined a new motor install, we told them to just put it back to the shape it was in when it came in, we'd pay the diagnosing fee, and take it home and run it till it died... Don't fix a thing, we said.(they told us also that the engine was 'not worth rebuilding').
They told us that would cost us $250-$300 to make it like it was when we brought it in...or we could just pay the fee and pick it up in pieces..........huh?

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

ancient.. Well we must cut your current dealer some slack as he merely opened the engine for inspection and could not push for warranty. I cannot emphasize enough how important oil is to this engine. Mine uses 5w-30 and will kick out an ounce or two every 1-1/2 hours mowing. I consider this good as it is assuring good piston-bore lubrication (not smoking , not burning the oil). These air/oil cooled engines MUST have enough oil at all times. Even with enough oil high temperatures can be a problem.

I would at least speak to the Husky dealer. If you are considering yet another $2000 mower look into the Husky model with the Kawasaki V. Why? Recommendations in this forum. But such an engine will also fail if not cared for. Be careful of "simpler" smaller units. Suggest you spend an hour searching this forum for a good unit. Many have vast experience while mine is wholly concentrated on my one and only.

Edit: these mechanics earn ( and I mean EARN) $50-$100 / HOUR. It probably took at least 2 hours to pull your engine down. It would take 3-4 (my guess) to assemble replacement parts. But the cylinders may not be replaceable or fixable so you are looking at major cost for "short block." That figure is bounced against the cost of a new motor, and the new motor cost prevails. My guess new motor cost ?$800+, so half the cost of a new , big box like you currently have. (Not the Kaw which is about $3k)

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

motoman said:

ancient.. Well we must cut your current dealer some slack as he merely opened the engine for inspection and could not push for warranty. I cannot emphasize enough how important oil is to this engine. Mine uses 5w-30 and will kick out an ounce or two every 1-1/2 hours mowing. I consider this good as it is assuring good piston-bore lubrication (not smoking , not burning the oil). These air/oil cooled engines MUST have enough oil at all times. Even with enough oil high temperatures can be a problem.

I would at least speak to the Husky dealer. If you are considering yet another $2000 mower look into the Husky model with the Kawasaki V. Why? Recommendations in this forum. But such an engine will also fail if not cared for. Be careful of "simpler" smaller units. Suggest you spend an hour searching this forum for a good unit. Many have vast experience while mine is wholly concentrated on my one and only.

Edit: these mechanics earn ( and I mean EARN) $50-$100 / HOUR. It probably took at least 2 hours to pull your engine down. It would take 3-4 (my guess) to assemble replacement parts. But the cylinders may not be replaceable or fixable so you are looking at major cost for "short block." That figure is bounced against the cost of a new motor, and the new motor cost prevails. My guess new motor cost ?$800+, so half the cost of a new , big box like you currently have. (Not the Kaw which is about $3k)

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Since we're old folks on a farm, we are pretty good at maintenance. Maybe don't power wash the tractors and mowers when we should, but sure are good at checking oil, changing oil, plugs, air filters, etc etc. In the somewhat 45 years of me (am 59 yrs old) owning mowers, and hubby, age 76 with alot more mileage in that regard, we have never ever experienced these kind of repetitive failures before. All with the same engine. so of course, we are suspicious. And I honestly do not think lack of maintenance is the issue here, if it is, then it's some sort of maintenance we are unfamiliar with, or the equipment is just too delicate for our uses.
as for the shop, I'm sure they think they are being fair, just wish they had not torn the thing apart before telling us. Now we are stuck. At least the mower was running at the time we brought it in. Now it's a mess, and putting it back, according to them, is 'not worth it'. So they'll give me $125 for it as it sits. I think not.
They can do a new motor for $850 but now i have no confidence that THIS one will last any more than the last. and I would still have a 6 year old mower that could have other issues I don't know about???
It's not an easy decision when $1000 is ALOT of money to us, maybe nothing to most, but to us, it's ALOT. so we have to decide as wisely as possible, and nowadays, it's a jungle of choices, with tons of different opinions. ALL I WANT is to know that I am buying something that is reasonably reliable with reasonable maintenance.
Another shop here in our area is known for exorbitant pricing, poor service, and a disinterest in cultivating good customers. So we can't go there any longer. Did so and it was not a good experience.
We have a log splitter, two (or had two) mowers, a tractor, chainsaws, weedeaters, and so on, but it seems that even in our small town, no one really cares to take care of building long term customers.
I have contacted Husqvarna with an email to the head guy, have contacted our local consumer folk, have called and emailed Briggs. Likely nothing will come of it, just thought maybe someone here could give us the benefit of their experience. I know many have had the same issues with this engine. Just wish it hadn't been us too....

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

Buy a new lawnmower. If you want more hours get a commercial unit. 9 bucks an hour is pretty good for a lawnmower you can ride. They get alot done in one hour for your 9 bucks plus gas. Should they last longer? Sure. But many do not. Is Briggs at fault? I would imagine Briggs figures you got your money worth. Your new lawnmower service? Ask around. Find a better one. Do not buy from them. Tell everyone you know what happened.

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

It would seem you could choose another engine brand but others can respond on that. Again, when my Intek valve train failed the look inside showed everything else good, including bores so I did not pull it apart further. The guys you had contact Briggs could not show and tell with only a bad compression check unless they had special cameras etc. They guessed and proved it was bore/rings. Have someone put on an oil temp gauge to read on the dash if you buy an Intek motor replacement. My little reseaerch shows that some ridearounds used to have temp warning lights on them (Kohler). If you are mainly worried about oil , an oil pressure gauge also on dash will tell you if there is oil in the pump (but not whether there is enough). A motorcyle or hot rod shop can do both for $150. Don't ask a Briggs authorized shop because I was told....get ready...it will void the warranty. :laughing:


Edit : I don't think you will be criticised for not power washing. IMO it can cause problems.

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

Avoid the "cheap" American made - anything !
Even a Chinese engine would be better, and they are cheap.
The B & S engines are throwaways...this should be illegal, but the current political climate protects the big business from the people...IMO.
Buy Japanese or German..
Our people, our business, our government will learn, one of these days.....

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

earthworm said:

Avoid the "cheap" American made - anything !
Even a Chinese engine would be better, and they are cheap.
The B & S engines are throwaways...this should be illegal, but the current political climate protects the big business from the people...IMO.
Buy Japanese or German..
Our people, our business, our government will learn, one of these days.....

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did exactly that. bought a Cub with a Kawasaki....may not work out any better, but at least we're trying something different. never even heard from Briggs..they 'claim' they respond in three working days.. what a joke..they didn't respond at all...NEVER again.....
it's the 'new normal'...pay good bucks, and EXPECT it to be a throwaway, don't hold them accountable, they know it and they know there is another sucker out there waiting anyway....and everyone just shrugs and says 'oh well, that's the way it is'......50 years ago you had to make a good product and stand behind it or you lost your shirt and your business. not any more...

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

earthworm, you seem bitter....:laughing: They say we vote with our pocketbooks. Seems like BS would begin to feel the heat, but it's in the numbers. If you build millions ,but only hundreds fail that is noise level . The car companies do the same. Until feds goose them they will not always respond ( witness recent Chrysler gas tank bru ha). Silly Sears still trying to live on the old househhold rep , but selling the BS in the Craftsman.

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

motoman said:

earthworm, you seem bitter....:laughing: They say we vote with our pocketbooks. Seems like BS would begin to feel the heat, but it's in the numbers. If you build millions ,but only hundreds fail that is noise level . The car companies do the same. Until feds goose them they will not always respond ( witness recent Chrysler gas tank bru ha). Silly Sears still trying to live on the old househhold rep , but selling the BS in the Craftsman.

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Yes ! I am, and think of how much more the OP is.....extremely bitter.....
Our companies , our government, and our people can do better...
The "weak link" ??????

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

And Kohler gets a bad rap. This is why I didn't buy the Briggs and chose the Kohler. :thumbsup:

Re: B & S 23 hp Twin V Tek - only 200 hrs rings bad, cylinder bad -Recourse from B &

TnHusky said:

And Kohler gets a bad rap. This is why I didn't buy the Briggs and chose the Kohler. :thumbsup:

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The valve train issue with The B+S Twin VTek is the steel valve guide (exhaust), moves out of location in the aluminum head, causing the pushrod to bend when the rocker arm contacts the out of position valve guide. People have fixed this by repositioning the valve guide where it should be in the head, and drilling a small hole between the aluminum and 1/2 of the valve guide (to create a groove in the exterior surface of the valve guide). Then they drive a 3/16 roll pin in the hole to prevent the valve guide from moving when the aluminum gets hot and expands.