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722D2 bogging down in grass it once easily cut
#1
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
This started last summer and has gotten progressively worse. When I get into relatively tall grass I used to easily cut, the pto seems to slow down and there is a squeal in the rear of the tractor. If I back off the tall grass the pto comes back up to speed and works OK until the next patch of taller grass. I don't think it is engine related. It seems to have plenty of power.
Some info:
*The squeal seems to be from the clutch area. I thought last summer the clutch was beginning to fail. Well, it finally did. I replaced it with a new one last week. The bearings on the old one were shot.
*The new clutch seems to be working fine but the bogging issue is still there and seems to be getting worse.
*In the last year for various problems I have replaced the pto coupler, the clutch belts and the deck belt. These were all replaced after the problem started but not to address the problem.
*I replaced a flex coupling disc this morning to fix a vibration problem and both fans for the hydro pumps were replaced this morning because they were old and brittle.
This all appears to be OK.
I'm wondering if the squeal might be from the rear pillow block bearing? The idler pulley for the clutch has a small amount of play in it but it turns freely. The clutch belts I replaced appear to be OK. The tension spring on the idler pulley may have a little slack in it but I don't see a good way to tighten it. I think the belts are tight enough. I have new pillow block bearings on hand but have never replaced one.
I'm a shade tree wrench at best. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Sorry to be so long-winded but I have always had that problem and at 72 it probably isn't going to change.
Signed.
Game but ignorant
Some info:
*The squeal seems to be from the clutch area. I thought last summer the clutch was beginning to fail. Well, it finally did. I replaced it with a new one last week. The bearings on the old one were shot.
*The new clutch seems to be working fine but the bogging issue is still there and seems to be getting worse.
*In the last year for various problems I have replaced the pto coupler, the clutch belts and the deck belt. These were all replaced after the problem started but not to address the problem.
*I replaced a flex coupling disc this morning to fix a vibration problem and both fans for the hydro pumps were replaced this morning because they were old and brittle.
This all appears to be OK.
I'm wondering if the squeal might be from the rear pillow block bearing? The idler pulley for the clutch has a small amount of play in it but it turns freely. The clutch belts I replaced appear to be OK. The tension spring on the idler pulley may have a little slack in it but I don't see a good way to tighten it. I think the belts are tight enough. I have new pillow block bearings on hand but have never replaced one.
I'm a shade tree wrench at best. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Sorry to be so long-winded but I have always had that problem and at 72 it probably isn't going to change.
Signed.
Game but ignorant
#2
cpurvis
cpurvis
Is the 722D a diesel? If so, when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter?
#3
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
Yes, it is a diesel. It has probably been 2 or maybe 3 years. The engine doesn't seem to be bogging down but that is just my view. I have a couple of new filters and I will change the old one. Couldn't hurt. Thank You.Is the 722D a diesel? If so, when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter?
#4
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
I replaced the inline fuel filter today and still have the same issue(s). Oh well changing the filter needed to happen anyway.Is the 722D a diesel? If so, when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter?
#5
cpurvis
cpurvis
There are only two things a diesel needs to make full power--fuel and air.
How's the air filter?
How's the air filter?
#6
B
bozoc
The mower is a 72" front mount. The pto shaft runs from the clutch at the back of the machine through 2 pillow bearings and hooks to the pto coupler right under the foot rest. When the pto starts losing power in the denser grass, there is a squeal from the back of the machine in the clutch area. I don't know if the squeal is from the two clutch belts, the clutch or the rear pillow bearing. If I stop going forward for a few seconds the pto power restores to normal and the squealing stops. The problem started last fall and has gotten progressively worse. The symptoms I described were all there last fall as well.
I replaced the clutch last week because of bearing failure and while I was at it I put on new clutch belts. The problem is still there and is worse since replacing the clutch and belts. I cleaned the underside of the deck and replaced blades yesterday. I mowed for a short while afterwards and when I looked today there was a large build up of grass and dirt (from gopher mounds) under the deck. The pto and blades are not running consistently fast enough to throw all of the clippings out of the side chute. When the machine is running correctly I get little to no build up under the deck. I have checked the tension on the deck belt and it meets specs. I'm not trying to pretend I'm knowledgeable about any of this. These are just my observations. I certainly appreciate your responses
B
bozoc
The air filter is almost new and I clean it after every use. The motor itself doesn't seem to be losing power, just the pto shaft. I don't know if that makes sense but that is what it seems like to me.There are only two things a diesel needs to make full power--fuel and air.
How's the air filter?
The mower is a 72" front mount. The pto shaft runs from the clutch at the back of the machine through 2 pillow bearings and hooks to the pto coupler right under the foot rest. When the pto starts losing power in the denser grass, there is a squeal from the back of the machine in the clutch area. I don't know if the squeal is from the two clutch belts, the clutch or the rear pillow bearing. If I stop going forward for a few seconds the pto power restores to normal and the squealing stops. The problem started last fall and has gotten progressively worse. The symptoms I described were all there last fall as well.
I replaced the clutch last week because of bearing failure and while I was at it I put on new clutch belts. The problem is still there and is worse since replacing the clutch and belts. I cleaned the underside of the deck and replaced blades yesterday. I mowed for a short while afterwards and when I looked today there was a large build up of grass and dirt (from gopher mounds) under the deck. The pto and blades are not running consistently fast enough to throw all of the clippings out of the side chute. When the machine is running correctly I get little to no build up under the deck. I have checked the tension on the deck belt and it meets specs. I'm not trying to pretend I'm knowledgeable about any of this. These are just my observations. I certainly appreciate your responses
#7
cpurvis
Don't mess with the air filter until it needs to be replaced. Believe it or not, the dirtier they get, pleated paper filters do a better job of filtering. If you don't have a restriction indicator (aka 'Filter Minder') installed, follow the manufacturer's recommendation for replacement.
But, it doesn't sound like the engine is the problem at all and I don't know enough about the Grasshopper mowers to be of any help. Sorry I can't be of any help with your problem. Hopefully some of the guys on here with Grasshopper experience will be able to help you get this fixed.
cpurvis
The air filter is almost new and I clean it after every use. The motor itself doesn't seem to be losing power, just the pto shaft. I don't know if that makes sense but that is what it seems like to me.
The mower is a 72" front mount. The pto shaft runs from the clutch at the back of the machine through 2 pillow bearings and hooks to the pto coupler right under the foot rest. When the pto starts losing power in the denser grass, there is a squeal from the back of the machine in the clutch area. I don't know if the squeal is from the two clutch belts, the clutch or the rear pillow bearing. If I stop going forward for a few seconds the pto power restores to normal and the squealing stops. The problem started last fall and has gotten progressively worse. The symptoms I described were all there last fall as well.
I replaced the clutch last week because of bearing failure and while I was at it I put on new clutch belts. The problem is still there and is worse since replacing the clutch and belts. I cleaned the underside of the deck and replaced blades yesterday. I mowed for a short while afterwards and when I looked today there was a large build up of grass and dirt (from gopher mounds) under the deck. The pto and blades are not running consistently fast enough to throw all of the clippings out of the side chute. When the machine is running correctly I get little to no build up under the deck. I have checked the tension on the deck belt and it meets specs. I'm not trying to pretend I'm knowledgeable about any of this. These are just my observations. I certainly appreciate your responses
Don't mess with the air filter until it needs to be replaced. Believe it or not, the dirtier they get, pleated paper filters do a better job of filtering. If you don't have a restriction indicator (aka 'Filter Minder') installed, follow the manufacturer's recommendation for replacement.
But, it doesn't sound like the engine is the problem at all and I don't know enough about the Grasshopper mowers to be of any help. Sorry I can't be of any help with your problem. Hopefully some of the guys on here with Grasshopper experience will be able to help you get this fixed.
#8
H
Honda Tech
H
Honda Tech
Sounds like you Electric PTO Clutch is either out of adjustment or worn out. Depending on the clutch manufacturer, some are adjustable. If it is adjustable, you should see 3 ports around the perimeter of the clutch body and it will also have 3 adjustment points with springs and lock-nuts. Use 0.0015" Feeler gauge in each port and adjust accordingly. If non-adjustable, time for a new clutch.
If you have been engaging and disengaging at Wide-Open throttle all the time, the clutch will wear faster.
If you have been engaging and disengaging at Wide-Open throttle all the time, the clutch will wear faster.
#9
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
H.T., the clutch is new. This started happening before the clutch was replaced. The problem srarted last fall and has gotten progressively worse. I don't think ithe new clutch is adjustable but I will check. I didn't replace the clutch because of this problem though. The bearings gave out on the old one. The old one was the original and had about 850 hours on it. I also replaced the stub shaft just in case as everything got really hot when the clutch failed. I think I got everything put back together and torqued correctly but as I said I am a shade tree guy. I was wondering about not enough belt tension on the clutch? Is that a possibility.? Something is "squealing" when the problem occurs. Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate it.Sounds like you Electric PTO Clutch is either out of adjustment or worn out. Depending on the clutch manufacturer, some are adjustable. If it is adjustable, you should see 3 ports around the perimeter of the clutch body and it will also have 3 adjustment points with springs and lock-nuts. Use 0.0015" Feeler gauge in each port and adjust accordingly. If non-adjustable, time for a new clutch.
If you have been engaging and disengaging at Wide-Open throttle all the time, the clutch will wear faster.
#10
H
Honda Tech
H
Honda Tech
Good info. Squealing could be belt tension, but it should be a constant. If the belt is not OEM or is also worn....or you have a bearing fail. That would rob a lot of power. Might take of the deck belt and check each idler and spindle. Should spin smooth and freely.
#11
B
bozoc
The deck belt tension is set to specs (tension spring at 5.75") but I will take the belt off and check the idlers and spindles. Thank You for your replies!
B
bozoc
I wasn't clear H.T. The squealing is coming from the rear around the clutch area. I was thinking the clutch belts might be slipping and squealing when they get a load on them. I'm not sure how tight these belts need to be and unlike the drive belts with the j-bolts I don't see a way to adjust the tension on the idler pulley. I'm sure there is a way but I can't see it. I am going to re-torque the clutch as well. I noticed the manual says to re-check torque after 15 minutes of running when you install a new clutch. I didn't do that.Good info. Squealing could be belt tension, but it should be a constant. If the belt is not OEM or is also worn....or you have a bearing fail. That would rob a lot of power. Might take of the deck belt and check each idler and spindle. Should spin smooth and freely.
The deck belt tension is set to specs (tension spring at 5.75") but I will take the belt off and check the idlers and spindles. Thank You for your replies!
#12
Q
qmark
Q
qmark
I would bet on the belt tension. Perhaps the new belts are slightly longer and the spring hasn't enough tension. Or maybe the spring is loosing its springiness
Find a way to get more tension on the belts. Larger idler pulley or longer pull on the spring or a stronger spring or possibly double spring it..
I have a 725 g2 61 in. deck which I replaced the 3 cylinder gas with a turbo charged diesel. I hear that squeal in tough going because the drive was designed for less power.
Find a way to get more tension on the belts. Larger idler pulley or longer pull on the spring or a stronger spring or possibly double spring it..
I have a 725 g2 61 in. deck which I replaced the 3 cylinder gas with a turbo charged diesel. I hear that squeal in tough going because the drive was designed for less power.
#13
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
You hit the nail on the head. Right after lunch today I replaced the idler pulley spring with a new one I had and it started cutting like a champ. Just a wag on my part but it worked. Thank you so much. You were right on the money!I would bet on the belt tension. Perhaps the new belts are slightly longer and the spring hasn't enough tension. Or maybe the spring is loosing its springiness
Find a way to get more tension on the belts. Larger idler pulley or longer pull on the spring or a stronger spring or possibly double spring it..
I have a 725 g2 61 in. deck which I replaced the 3 cylinder gas with a turbo charged diesel. I hear that squeal in tough going because the drive was designed for less power.
#14
G
gsim
G
gsim
Check pto belt tension. Won't always squeal until heavier cutting encountered. If air filter, you'll see sooty looking exhaust when load increases.
#15
B
bozoc
B
bozoc
Thank you for the reply. You are exactly right. It did turn out to be tension on the 2 pto clutch belts. A new spring fixed it. The old spring looked fine but it must have lost some of its "springiness" or tension. Again thanks for your reply. I am amazed at the knowledge I have found on this forum over the years.Check pto belt tension. Won't always squeal until heavier cutting encountered. If air filter, you'll see sooty looking exhaust when load increases.