60" John Deere Z-Trac 920M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

[QuickPuppy]

Hello all,

I am currently cutting 10+ acres yard with a tractor and pull behind finish mower. It takes a good 7+ hours to do and chokes the finish mower pretty easily.

I'm finally going to join the ZTR world and have narrowed my choices down to 3 manufactures and 3 or 4 mowers. All are 60"-61", all will have the suspension seat option, all but one have the Kawasaki FX730V 23.5hp engine, all have some variation of a 7 gauge deck.

The candidates are: John Deere Z-Trac Z920M, the Scag Tiger Cat, the Toro Z-Master 3000, and the Toro Z-Master 5000.

Price wise they are all within a couple hundred dollars of each other. (Except for the Toro 5000 series that is $1200-1500 more.)

I like all of the dealers so that doesn't figure into things.

Here's the comparison:

The Deere Z920M has a stamped 7 Iron Pro deck, integrated 13cc pump/motors, Aluminum spindle housings, 18000 blade tip speed, 24 X 12 12 tires, flat free 6.5" casters, heaviest machine at 1283lbs, 3 yr warranty.

The Toro 3000 has a bull nose deck lip, integrated 12cc pump/motors (ZT3400), cast iron spindle housings, top speed is slower than the others by 1.5 mph but the blade speed is faster at 18500, 23 x 10.5 rear tires, pneumatic 6.5" casters, 5 yr warranty (lifetime on frame), for $500 more I can get the 25hp Kohler Command Pro EFI.

The Scag has a tri-plate deck, separate pumps (ZT3100) and motors, tapered roller spindle and caster bearings, cast iron spindle housings, 24 X 12 12 tires, 6.5" pneumatic casters, 3yr warranty.

Of course my favorite is the most expensive-- the Toro 5000. However I'm not sure it's worth the additional $1200-1500 over the others. It takes the Z-Master 3000 series and adds: a standard suspension seat, larger rear tires, flat free casters, larger "27hp" Kohler Command Pro engine, larger gas tank, shock valves to the pump, and is 1.5 mph faster.)

Questions:
1. How much difference do larger tires and casters make?
2. How much difference does a 1.5 mph top speed make? (Other than getting to and from the grass, will I ever be able to cut even close to the top speed of these machines?)
3. Any issues with stamped decks? On lesser gauge steel I would think so but the 7 Iron Pro 7ga plus a 1" reinforcement bar on the sides is really beefy looking.
4. How much additional power and less fuel (realistically) will an EFI engine provide?

 

[Ric]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

You say you're currently cutting 10+ acres yard with a tractor and pull behind finish mower, what are we talking about. Are we talking grass or what? You say it's choking the finish mower? How often are you cutting?

 

[QuickPuppy]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

You say you're currently cutting 10+ acres yard with a tractor and pull behind finish mower, what are we talking about. Are we talking grass or what? You say it's choking the finish mower? How often are you cutting?

I'm currently using a New Holland TC29 pulling a 6' finish mower. The yard ranges from areas around the house that are almost 100% St. Augustine grass, to mixed weeds and grasses (dollar weed, clover, etc.), to a pasture type area that is clover and I think Bahia. The bahia (thin and wispy looking) is what the current mower has the issues with. It doesn't look that thick but it sometimes bogs down even when creeping in 2nd or 1st gear. (About half walking speed.) We try to cut at least once a week during the growing season but at times it probably needs it twice a week.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

With that amount of area to mow, you should consider a larger machine with wing mowers, but of course the price doubles or more.
As for my personal recommendations, I prefer machines that are proven and have been improved as time has passed.
I stay away from manufacturers that have too many machines in their line and tend to come out with the "final answer" too often. I prefer wheel motors and pumps to hydrostatic drive units. Stamped decks generally have better airflow to evacuate the clippings, however if they get bent from striking a hard object, they are impossible to straighten. I prefer cast iron spindle housings with tapered roller bearings that can be lubricated. The ground speed is up to the operator and what is being mowed, I don't know anyone who mows with a ZTR at the max speed of the machine, even golf course maintainers!!
Just some thoughts!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Ric]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

I'm currently using a New Holland TC29 pulling a 6' finish mower. The yard ranges from areas around the house that are almost 100% St. Augustine grass, to mixed weeds and grasses (dollar weed, clover, etc.), to a pasture type area that is clover and I think Bahia. The bahia (thin and wispy looking) is what the current mower has the issues with. It doesn't look that thick but it sometimes bogs down even when creeping in 2nd or 1st gear. (About half walking speed.) We try to cut at least once a week during the growing season but at times it probably needs it twice a week.

Well out the mowers mentioned I personally would go with the Toro 5000. The Kohler Command is a great engine and will do what your asking without problem. I'd stay away from stamped decks especially with the area you'll be mowing. The Toro is or has the Turbo Force deck and it has one of the best cuts on the market. You'll also be running the Pumps and wheel motors which are a lot easier to maintain and are a lot better drives than the 3100 which are just a step up from the bottom of the hydro-gear line up for commercial drives. Also toro has a better warranty and I believe there a lifetime warranty on there spindles. As far as speed of the machine goes I really wouldn't worry about that too much because you not going to be mowing full speed anyway. The thing I would do regardless of what mower you buy I would invest in the G6 Gator blades because they will make a big difference.

Can I ask what part of Florida you're in?

 

[QuickPuppy]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

Mackie? Shall I assume than that you prefer the Scag? :wink:

So does anyone have any idea or experienced how hard you have to hit something to damage the 7 Iron Pro deck?

 

[QuickPuppy]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

Can I ask what part of Florida you're in?

Bostwick. NE Florida, just south of Green Cove Springs, West of St. Augustine. Where are you?

Not sure about the lifetime warranty on the spindles. However it does have a 5 year warranty (Two years more than the others), and lifetime on the frame.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

Mackie? Shall I assume than that you prefer the Scag? :wink:

So does anyone have any idea or experienced how hard you have to hit something to damage the 7 Iron Pro deck?

Yes, you could say that!!! By the way, the Scag Tiger Cat has pumps and wheel motors and not Hydro Gear 3100s.
The Scag Tiger Cat is based on Scags very successful Tiger Cub and has had several refinements that I fully approve of being a Tiger Cub operator. It is a relatively basic fully functional machine as ZTRs go, no fancy frills, just a solid machine and with a Kawasaki FX engine, it rates high amongst its competitors.
The new drive units that are considered integral have yet to prove themselves and they may in time. As for hydrostatic drive units, heat is their worst enemy, and I personally prefer the response of the control levers of pumps and wheel motors compared to hydrostatic drive units.
I also have a Hustler X-ONE with a 60 " rear discharge deck and a Kawasaki FX730V engine. This machine is used primarily at a local cemetery. This X-ONE is one fine machine, but in a different class from the Tiger Cat as it is heavier, bigger and more expensive at $11,000. The rear discharge deck is more expensive than the standard side discharge deck, however a necessity in our cemetery the old part of which is 200 or more years old.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Mad Mackie]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

Bostwick. NE Florida, just south of Green Cove Springs, West of St. Augustine. Where are you?

If in fact the JD 7 gauge stamped deck is what they say it is, then possibly it is worth considering. Fabricated decks made of flat metal are much easier to clean than stamped decks with all the curves. Understand that the front of the machine has to be raised up so you can get underneath and scrape the underside of the deck to clean it, much easier to clean flat surfaces than curved surfaces. Years back I had several stamped deck machines and I made scrapers to conform to most of the curved surfaces under the decks, but when I went to fabricated decks I never looked back.
As I service the machines for several cemeteries, I have had to straighten, cut and weld about 5 or 6 decks plus two of my own, all were fabricated decks.
Just some thoughts from
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Ric]

Re: 60" John Deere Z-Trac 925M vs. Scag Tiger Cat vs. Toro Z-Master 3000/5000

Bostwick. NE Florida, just south of Green Cove Springs, West of St. Augustine. Where are you?

Not sure about the lifetime warranty on the spindles. However it does have a 5 year warranty (Two years more than the others), and lifetime on the frame.

Ok, I was thinking that the spindles were life time but your right it's the frame. I'm down here in the Tampa area.