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20 HP lawnmower difficulty cranking

#1

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Hello,

I'm having an issue with a Honda GXV620 20HP dual-cylinder engine on a Hustler Fastrak. We purchased this mower in 2003 and it has run beautifully, the engine runs as good as when it was brand new. It has cranked flawless form 2003 until 2019, but over the last two seasons it there developed difficulties in the starter turning over the engine. At first, I removed the starter and cleaned the commutators, thinking there may be a bad spot because it would eventually crank after a few tries with the key. I would have to resort to jumping it with a vehicle, but that would be successful only when the vehicle is running and delivering 14+ volts. I eventually replaced the starter, and the problem was still there. Since then, I've put in a new battery, new positive cable, cleaned the negative cable, replaced the starter relay, that energizes the starter solenoid when the key is turned. It will eventually turn over after a lot of key turns, and it starts right away when it does crank.

If anyone has any ideas or things for me to try, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,
gamma


#2

M

mechanic mark

You need to adjust valves every 100 hrs. on your Honda engine. A compression release on camshaft will not function if valves are out of adjustment.


#3

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I'd check your valve lash
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#4

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

mechanic mark and Scrubcadet10,

Thank you both for that suggestion and adjustment specs. I will try that tomorrow, weather permitting.

Gamma


#5

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

mechanic mark said:
You need to adjust valves every 100 hrs. on your Honda engine. A compression release on camshaft will not function if valves are out of adjustm
Click to expand...


#6

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Hello,
I thought I would provide an update, just in case anyone is interested.

I set the valve lash as per specs, and the engine did the same thing, just clicked. Seeming like the starter solenoid was either not fully engaging the gear into the flywheel or staying engaged and not retracting, I tried rapping the solenoid with a mallet while having the key turned. The jolt from the mallet works, the engine immediately spins up and starts. I now have a mallet with the starter key for cranking the mower, lol.

It could it be a weak solenoid, but it's the second starter in a row that does this. Perhaps a genuine Honda solenoid would be better?

Maybe it's slightly out of alignment and not engaging fully into the flywheel? The two mounting bolts seem to fasten it to the block without any way for it to be so.

Anyway, The mallet solution works for the time being, and I've not had time to experiment with it further. I may try removing the spark plugs and see if it spins the motor freely ( should have tried this while I was setting valve lash but didn't think about it).

Anything further that can be recommended for me to try would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gamma


#7

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Need more info.
When you turn the key and it does not start does starter engage and engine crank slow?
Does it do nothing? No click of starter or starter relay?
Does starter relay click but starter not engage?
When starter does crank engine does it crank slow or at normal speed?


#8

M

mechanic mark

When properly adjusting valves spark plugs should be removed so pencil etc. can be inserted into spark plug hole touching top of piston while rotating top screen clockwise until TDC { piston is at top dead center } can be located at top of stroke & both intake & exhaust valves are closed & both rocker arms are loose. Adjust intake & exhaust valves per specs. in Engine Manual. Engine should be cold when adjusting valves. On twin cylinder engine move to opposite side & rotate engine clockwise after inserting pencil into spark plug hole until TDC is reached. On B&S engines manuals state 1/4" past TDC. A slight drag should be felt when inserting feeler gauge between rocker arm & push rod. Recheck with feeler gauge after torqueing jam nuts per specs. in manual.


#9

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

Solenoid is mounted on the starter, correct?


#10

S

slomo

Starter solenoid is the FIRST thing on a starter I would replace. You have all that amperage arcing away on every key start. Eats away the solenoid contacts. Pretty soon it doesn't start.

Taryl has a great fix and an awesome video on it. (y)


slomo


#11

S

slomo

mechanic mark said:
When properly adjusting valves spark plugs should be removed so pencil etc. can be inserted into spark plug hole touching top of piston while rotating top screen clockwise until TDC { piston is at top dead center } can be located at top of stroke & both intake & exhaust valves are closed & both rocker arms are loose. Adjust intake & exhaust valves per specs. in Engine Manual. Engine should be cold when adjusting valves. On twin cylinder engine move to opposite side & rotate engine clockwise after inserting pencil into spark plug hole until TDC is reached. On B&S engines manuals state 1/4" past TDC. A slight drag should be felt when inserting feeler gauge between rocker arm & push rod. Recheck with feeler gauge after torqueing jam nuts per specs. in manual.
Click to expand...
Specifically, use TDC on the compression stroke. Near the time the plug fires off.

slomo


#12

G

Gescha

slomo said:
Specifically, use TDC on the compression stroke. Near the time the plug fires off.

slomo
Click to expand...
I had the same problem with my gxv620 on a Hustler zero turn mower. The problem of your starter has nothing to do with valve lash. The fix for my problem was to replace the starter solenoid. Honda refers to it as a starter switch. To be perfectly clear it can also be a problem with your ignition switch. But I would be willing to bet that is the same as I encountered with the starter solenoid. Hope this helps.


#13

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Gescha said:
I had the same problem with my gxv620 on a Hustler zero turn mower. The problem of your starter has nothing to do with valve lash. The fix for my problem was to replace the starter solenoid. Honda refers to it as a starter switch. To be perfectly clear it can also be a problem with your ignition switch. But I would be willing to bet that is the same as I encountered with the starter solenoid. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


#14

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Thanks for replying,

I've isolated everything except the starter solenoid. For now the rubber mallet works everytime, rapping it while holding the key to "start". Starts just fine when doing this.

Is the solenoid sold separately from the starter? I'm tired of buying the whole thing.

Gamma


#15

StarTech

StarTech

You can buy a complete after market starter for a lot less than the Honda Starter solenoid alone. But if you insist then the answer is yes the solenoid is available separately.


#16

S

slomo

OEM Honda parts are obviously better than Chinese Gambler Series parts. We see it here all the time. Chinese parts won't last like Honda parts will or should.


#17

StarTech

StarTech

When the product comes with an one year warranty I don't consider it low quality. Besides most the DB Electrical Kohler starters I sell are the same OEM starters (J&N starters) just without the Kohler OEM markups. With the quality of those starters I would have no problem in installing one of their Honda starters. Matter of fact I got the same GXV620 starter siting on the shelf right now awaiting a customer pickup.

J&N 410-52076 is the same starter for the Honda 31200-ZJ4-831, 31200-ZJ4-832 starters.


#18

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

StarTech said:
You can buy a complete after market starter for a lot less than the Honda Starter solenoid alone. But if you insist then the answer is yes the solenoid is available separately.
Click to expand...
I think that is the whole problem, the current starter, an aftermarket one I bought earlier this year, has had this problem since I put it on. I did find another solenoid, from a prior starter I had, connected it to a battery, tested it and it seems to work. I may replace my current one with it and see what happens.


#19

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

slomo said:
OEM Honda parts are obviously better than Chinese Gambler Series parts. We see it here all the time. Chinese parts won't last like Honda parts will or should.
Click to expand...
This Hustler Honda engine has surely sold me on that! Bought it in late 2003 and runs as well as when new, other than the starter issue of course. The only thing I've done to the engine itself was routine maintenance, replacement of the obvious wear items, air filter, plugs, fuel filter, and the flywheel fan that succumbed to years of southern US summer heat. Oh, I also adjusted the valve clearance as someone suggested that may be a reason it wasn't turning over.

Since I've found a gas station that offers 100% gasoline, that's all I've run in all my small engines. I've never even had to remove the carb as it's never given me any reason to. Last year I bought a brush cutter and specifically looked for one with a Honda engine to, hopefully, stave off engine problems.


#20

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

StarTech said:
When the product comes with an one year warranty I don't consider it low quality. Besides most the DB Electrical Kohler starters I sell are the same OEM starters (J&N starters) just without the Kohler OEM markups. With the quality of those starters I would have no problem in installing one of their Honda starters. Matter of fact I got the same GXV620 starter siting on the shelf right now awaiting a customer pickup.

J&N 410-52076 is the same starter for the Honda 31200-ZJ4-831, 31200-ZJ4-832 starters.
Click to expand...
Aren't J&N and DB electrical starters made by Arrowhead?


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