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1980 Troy-Bilt Horse tiller, belt problems
#1
Roger B
Roger B
Recently I repowered a Troy-Bilt tiller with a Predator engine from Harbor Freight. It ran great for about half an hour and then devoured it's front (towards the engine) belt!! I had ordered Kevlar belts for it from "Off Road Belts". The rear belt (towards the tiller end) seems fine. Evidently the forward belt was slipping and the rear belt was not.. I cannot figure out how that could happen unless the two belts weren't the same diameter, (and of course they were!)
However, there are a few more clues:
1.) When I got this tiller, it had no forward belt on it, just the rear one, which was a Troy-Bilt P/N GW-9245.
2.) When I first put it back together, I installed two aftermarket belts that came on another, older tiller I had. The front belt parted in less than five minutes of operation. I assumed that was because it was old.. Maybe I was wrong?!?!
When I installed the new Predator engine, I used the same number of shims behind the engine pulley as were on with the original Kohler engine. Obviously the engine pulleys must line up properly with the pulleys on the tiller drive. I did not use a straight edge to check the alignment, but 'visually' the alignment 'looked' good.
As the engine-mount/belt-housing is held in place by two 1" dia. pins that hold it securely to the front of the tiller, I do not see any way that the vertical alignment could make the forward belt loose and the rear belt tight. The two sets of pulleys might not align directly one above the other, (which I will check) but the distance apart has to remain the same, (I think!)
I have a laser level which came with a lens that will produce a very fine straight line. I think if I level the tiller and the laser and adjust the laser-line vertically, I can use it to determine whether the faces of the two pulleys are in alignment or not. It would be very difficult to get a straight edge inside that housing.
I did notice that the older tiller with the Tecumseh engine had more shims behind the pulley than the Kohler had. Also the older tiller has same size pulleys rather than one larger than the other, like the 1980 tiller has.
I am hoping that some of you Troy-Bilt guys have some insight into this sort of belt problem and can help me out, I still have to finish rebuilding the older (1976) tiller and don't want to have the same problem again! (Also I need to get this one running properly!)
Thanks in advance for your advice, I need it!!
Roger B
However, there are a few more clues:
1.) When I got this tiller, it had no forward belt on it, just the rear one, which was a Troy-Bilt P/N GW-9245.
2.) When I first put it back together, I installed two aftermarket belts that came on another, older tiller I had. The front belt parted in less than five minutes of operation. I assumed that was because it was old.. Maybe I was wrong?!?!
When I installed the new Predator engine, I used the same number of shims behind the engine pulley as were on with the original Kohler engine. Obviously the engine pulleys must line up properly with the pulleys on the tiller drive. I did not use a straight edge to check the alignment, but 'visually' the alignment 'looked' good.
As the engine-mount/belt-housing is held in place by two 1" dia. pins that hold it securely to the front of the tiller, I do not see any way that the vertical alignment could make the forward belt loose and the rear belt tight. The two sets of pulleys might not align directly one above the other, (which I will check) but the distance apart has to remain the same, (I think!)
I have a laser level which came with a lens that will produce a very fine straight line. I think if I level the tiller and the laser and adjust the laser-line vertically, I can use it to determine whether the faces of the two pulleys are in alignment or not. It would be very difficult to get a straight edge inside that housing.
I did notice that the older tiller with the Tecumseh engine had more shims behind the pulley than the Kohler had. Also the older tiller has same size pulleys rather than one larger than the other, like the 1980 tiller has.
I am hoping that some of you Troy-Bilt guys have some insight into this sort of belt problem and can help me out, I still have to finish rebuilding the older (1976) tiller and don't want to have the same problem again! (Also I need to get this one running properly!)
Thanks in advance for your advice, I need it!!
Roger B
#2
BlazNT
BlazNT
You must use a straight edge to make sure the pulleys line up. Shim till it fits correctly.
#3
Roger B
Chuck,
I just picked the Tiller back up today.. Before I left I thought I'd ty it myself and see what happened. I tried to tighten the belts a little more and that was a disaster! It actually caused the belts to turn inside-out! That really does make it sound like the pulleys aren't properly aligned, doesn't it? I have to read the manual closely and see how much deflection I'm supposed to have when the belts are tighten as well as methods of insuring pulley alignment.
I may just take the Predator engine off this tiller and put it on the 1976 model that I have and see how that works out.. I will carefully check the pulley alignment, I promise..
Thanks for taking the time to answer, I had about despaired of getting a reply here..
Roger
Roger B
You must use a straight edge to make sure the pulleys line up. Shim till it fits correctly.
Chuck,
I just picked the Tiller back up today.. Before I left I thought I'd ty it myself and see what happened. I tried to tighten the belts a little more and that was a disaster! It actually caused the belts to turn inside-out! That really does make it sound like the pulleys aren't properly aligned, doesn't it? I have to read the manual closely and see how much deflection I'm supposed to have when the belts are tighten as well as methods of insuring pulley alignment.
I may just take the Predator engine off this tiller and put it on the 1976 model that I have and see how that works out.. I will carefully check the pulley alignment, I promise..
Thanks for taking the time to answer, I had about despaired of getting a reply here..
Roger
#4
Roger B
Roger B
Here's the straight-skinny on the Troy-Bilt pulleys.
I very carefully checked and sure enough, if I really paid attention and look carefully, I could see that the pulleys were not exactly aligned one set above the other. In fact some careful measurements indicated that they were off by 3/16"! In this case the pulley need to be 3/16" further away from the motor. As I found five shims on the shaft of the Tecumseh engine, I measured three of the thickest ones and found they were 1/16" each, so I put all three on the shaft of the Predator. Then I put on the extra two belts I had ordered for the 1976 Tiller and put everything back together. A little tension readjustment for both the belts and the reversing wheel and it ran great!
I drained the break-in oil and refilled the Predator crankcase with a good 10W-30 oil and hopefully it will now work fine. When I finish refurbishing and repowering the 1976 Troy-Bilt, I can assure you that I will pay far closer attention to the pulley alignment.. I've always said, "If you don't screw-up once and a while, you aren't really working!" In my case I always seem to be working!!
I just ordered two new Kevlar belts using the same supplier but the other Troy-Bilt number. There is a GW-9245 and a GW-1128, I want to see if there is any difference between them.
I 'think' we're good to go with it now.
Roger
I very carefully checked and sure enough, if I really paid attention and look carefully, I could see that the pulleys were not exactly aligned one set above the other. In fact some careful measurements indicated that they were off by 3/16"! In this case the pulley need to be 3/16" further away from the motor. As I found five shims on the shaft of the Tecumseh engine, I measured three of the thickest ones and found they were 1/16" each, so I put all three on the shaft of the Predator. Then I put on the extra two belts I had ordered for the 1976 Tiller and put everything back together. A little tension readjustment for both the belts and the reversing wheel and it ran great!
I drained the break-in oil and refilled the Predator crankcase with a good 10W-30 oil and hopefully it will now work fine. When I finish refurbishing and repowering the 1976 Troy-Bilt, I can assure you that I will pay far closer attention to the pulley alignment.. I've always said, "If you don't screw-up once and a while, you aren't really working!" In my case I always seem to be working!!
I just ordered two new Kevlar belts using the same supplier but the other Troy-Bilt number. There is a GW-9245 and a GW-1128, I want to see if there is any difference between them.
I 'think' we're good to go with it now.
Roger
#5
BlazNT
BlazNT
Sweet. I know you can get it done.
#6
Roger B
Oh Chuckster!
I wish you could see what I'm into now!! I started to clean up the 1976 Troy Bilt tiller and discovered the oil in the tranny hadn't been changed since Hector was a pup! So to clean things out I removed the gear case cover, what a mess. I've spent the entire afternoon trying to wash that crap out. I finally ended up filling the entire gear case with "Purple Power" and then used brushes, sticks, rags, and anything else I thought would help. Then drained it out and poured it back in again time after time, each washing improving things a little bit. Finally I drained it all, and then discovered that WD-40 would break down the bubbles that were left behind. Following that I used HP air and blew what was left out.. When I came in the house I looked like I'd been mud wrestling with a couple of those girls that do that sort of thing and lost! But the gears look pretty good! I have to cut a new gasket for the case cover, but I have plenty of gasket material.
I'll bet that case will hold dang near two-quarts of 90W when it's all done. The same oil runs down the tiller drive shaft and lubricates whatever drives the tines at the rear of the machine. I gotta get that washed out too!
I got a couple pictures of the gear case.
Roger
Roger B
Sweet. I know you can get it done.
Oh Chuckster!
I wish you could see what I'm into now!! I started to clean up the 1976 Troy Bilt tiller and discovered the oil in the tranny hadn't been changed since Hector was a pup! So to clean things out I removed the gear case cover, what a mess. I've spent the entire afternoon trying to wash that crap out. I finally ended up filling the entire gear case with "Purple Power" and then used brushes, sticks, rags, and anything else I thought would help. Then drained it out and poured it back in again time after time, each washing improving things a little bit. Finally I drained it all, and then discovered that WD-40 would break down the bubbles that were left behind. Following that I used HP air and blew what was left out.. When I came in the house I looked like I'd been mud wrestling with a couple of those girls that do that sort of thing and lost! But the gears look pretty good! I have to cut a new gasket for the case cover, but I have plenty of gasket material.
I'll bet that case will hold dang near two-quarts of 90W when it's all done. The same oil runs down the tiller drive shaft and lubricates whatever drives the tines at the rear of the machine. I gotta get that washed out too!
I got a couple pictures of the gear case.
Roger
Attachments
#7
Boobala
Just by looking at the pics of that tiller, you can tell it's old and made from the great metals of days gone by, EVEN the tires
as dirty as they are APPEAR to be made of the "good" rubber of the "ol-days". Meanwhile the spider invited a friend....
Boobala
Oh Chuckster!
I wish you could see what I'm into now!! I started to clean up the 1976 Troy Bilt tiller and discovered the oil in the tranny hadn't been changed since Hector was a pup! So to clean things out I removed the gear case cover, what a mess. I've spent the entire afternoon trying to wash that crap out. I finally ended up filling the entire gear case with "Purple Power" and then used brushes, sticks, rags, and anything else I thought would help. Then drained it out and poured it back in again time after time, each washing improving things a little bit. Finally I drained it all, and then discovered that WD-40 would break down the bubbles that were left behind. Following that I used HP air and blew what was left out.. When I came in the house I looked like I'd been mud wrestling with a couple of those girls that do that sort of thing and lost! But the gears look pretty good! I have to cut a new gasket for the case cover, but I have plenty of gasket material.
I'll bet that case will hold dang near two-quarts of 90W when it's all done. The same oil runs down the tiller drive shaft and lubricates whatever drives the tines at the rear of the machine. I gotta get that washed out too!
I got a couple pictures of the gear case.
Roger
Just by looking at the pics of that tiller, you can tell it's old and made from the great metals of days gone by, EVEN the tires
as dirty as they are APPEAR to be made of the "good" rubber of the "ol-days". Meanwhile the spider invited a friend....
#8
BlazNT
Roger,
Nice job. I would have used a can or 2 of carb cleaner my self but to each his own.
Do not worry about thoes spiders. A little pepperment oil in a sprayer will make them find a new home.
BlazNT
Oh Chuckster!
I wish you could see what I'm into now!! I started to clean up the 1976 Troy Bilt tiller and discovered the oil in the tranny hadn't been changed since Hector was a pup! So to clean things out I removed the gear case cover, what a mess. I've spent the entire afternoon trying to wash that crap out. I finally ended up filling the entire gear case with "Purple Power" and then used brushes, sticks, rags, and anything else I thought would help. Then drained it out and poured it back in again time after time, each washing improving things a little bit. Finally I drained it all, and then discovered that WD-40 would break down the bubbles that were left behind. Following that I used HP air and blew what was left out.. When I came in the house I looked like I'd been mud wrestling with a couple of those girls that do that sort of thing and lost! But the gears look pretty good! I have to cut a new gasket for the case cover, but I have plenty of gasket material.
I'll bet that case will hold dang near two-quarts of 90W when it's all done. The same oil runs down the tiller drive shaft and lubricates whatever drives the tines at the rear of the machine. I gotta get that washed out too!
I got a couple pictures of the gear case.
Roger
Roger,
Nice job. I would have used a can or 2 of carb cleaner my self but to each his own.
Do not worry about thoes spiders. A little pepperment oil in a sprayer will make them find a new home.
#9
Roger B
Chuck,
Boo is the one with spiders and I may try to finish the job up with some gasoline.. that cleans old oil up very well! I want to make sure I get all the Purple Power out of the gear case.
Roger
Roger B
Roger,
Nice job. I would have used a can or 2 of carb cleaner my self but to each his own.
Do not worry about thoes spiders. A little pepperment oil in a sprayer will make them find a new home.
Chuck,
Boo is the one with spiders and I may try to finish the job up with some gasoline.. that cleans old oil up very well! I want to make sure I get all the Purple Power out of the gear case.
Roger
#10
BlazNT
BlazNT
Ok so now im confused. It is not the first time nore will it be the last.
#11
Roger B
Chuck, sorry about that, I read the posts here before the MTD forum posts and thus I was confused about the spiders... Confusing you was not my intention.
Rog
PS I didn't get around to the final washing out of the gear case, too many other things came up.
Roger B
Ok so now im confused. It is not the first time nore will it be the last.
Chuck, sorry about that, I read the posts here before the MTD forum posts and thus I was confused about the spiders... Confusing you was not my intention.
Rog
PS I didn't get around to the final washing out of the gear case, too many other things came up.