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What features on a propelled mower?
#1
Y
Yardguy
Y
Yardguy
First time poster. Been using push Craftsman rotary mowers (two) for years. Our lawns are flat on a small lot of 5000 sq. feet including the house. Getting on in years so when our current Craftsman push rotary blade retainer stripped, have decided to get a self propelled rotary now.
The grass is zoysia and can be pretty tough to cut. I'm not a religious mower so the grass can get a bit tall (1.5 inches higher than normal) at times with some spots with different grass a bit higher.
When I mow the lawn, sometimes in spots I have to tilt the mower, push it over the tall grass and then slowly lower the mower to prevent binding up the blade and stopping the engine. Also since our front and back yards are relatively small, I need good EASY 180 degree turn ability.
Could you tell me if my current ideas for buying a mower are OK or bad? My ideas are:
1. I'm thinking that I need to get front wheel drive to be able to tilt the mower up, push forward over tall spots, and slowly lower the mower to cut the tall grass gradually. This would only be is some spots, not the whole yard. Since our front and back yards are flat, I don't need rear wheel drive. Would front wheel drive be best for this type of cutting situation?
2. When I handled two self propelled mowers in Sears, I noticed that the one with large rear wheels was harder to push the handle down due to the weight of the mower. It seems that with the larger rear wheels, the wheel pivot points are further back which increases the leverage of the weight of the mower making the mower appear to be heaver. So I'm thinking that when I make 180 degree turns, small rear wheels will be less work due to less weight when tilting the mower to make the turns. Are these correct assumptions?
3. I bought a Craftsmans 370660 front wheel drive mower with small rear wheels yesterday. I haven't unboxed it yet. When I did some research this morning, I saw that this model has plastic ring gears on the front wheels and small metal gears to drive the front wheels. Should I just return this mower or can this configuration last if I grease the gears well?
4. Which mowers have good variable speed mechanisms? The Craftsman 370660 appears to have a drive belt to a small pulley that's mounted on the vertical to horizontal gear box. Sears advertises this model as having variable speed but it seems it is misleading since variable speed appears to be just loosening the belt to let it slip. Seems like a trick advertising. How do other mowers achieve variable speed?
5. Which mower would you recommend for my situation? Would this Honda HRR216VKA at Home Depot be better even though it has rear wheel drive?
http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-Walk-Behind-Mowers-Self-Propelled-Mowers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbxc3/R-100617092/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UCnEDKP-3vw
Thanks,
Yardguy
The grass is zoysia and can be pretty tough to cut. I'm not a religious mower so the grass can get a bit tall (1.5 inches higher than normal) at times with some spots with different grass a bit higher.
When I mow the lawn, sometimes in spots I have to tilt the mower, push it over the tall grass and then slowly lower the mower to prevent binding up the blade and stopping the engine. Also since our front and back yards are relatively small, I need good EASY 180 degree turn ability.
Could you tell me if my current ideas for buying a mower are OK or bad? My ideas are:
1. I'm thinking that I need to get front wheel drive to be able to tilt the mower up, push forward over tall spots, and slowly lower the mower to cut the tall grass gradually. This would only be is some spots, not the whole yard. Since our front and back yards are flat, I don't need rear wheel drive. Would front wheel drive be best for this type of cutting situation?
2. When I handled two self propelled mowers in Sears, I noticed that the one with large rear wheels was harder to push the handle down due to the weight of the mower. It seems that with the larger rear wheels, the wheel pivot points are further back which increases the leverage of the weight of the mower making the mower appear to be heaver. So I'm thinking that when I make 180 degree turns, small rear wheels will be less work due to less weight when tilting the mower to make the turns. Are these correct assumptions?
3. I bought a Craftsmans 370660 front wheel drive mower with small rear wheels yesterday. I haven't unboxed it yet. When I did some research this morning, I saw that this model has plastic ring gears on the front wheels and small metal gears to drive the front wheels. Should I just return this mower or can this configuration last if I grease the gears well?
4. Which mowers have good variable speed mechanisms? The Craftsman 370660 appears to have a drive belt to a small pulley that's mounted on the vertical to horizontal gear box. Sears advertises this model as having variable speed but it seems it is misleading since variable speed appears to be just loosening the belt to let it slip. Seems like a trick advertising. How do other mowers achieve variable speed?
5. Which mower would you recommend for my situation? Would this Honda HRR216VKA at Home Depot be better even though it has rear wheel drive?
http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-Walk-Behind-Mowers-Self-Propelled-Mowers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbxc3/R-100617092/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UCnEDKP-3vw
Thanks,
Yardguy
#2
txzrider
txzrider
I think there will be plenty of guys with more experience than me... but for the record I hated front wheel drive. If your have any kind of incline... it gets old quick trying to push up on the handles to force the front end down so it gets traction! I love my snapper with rear wheel drive! Now my snapper does not have personal pace(toro) or whatever system the honda has... it has 4 or 5 speeds but I always leave it on 1st whereas my son will push it to high. In any case (and it may be my lack of experience with your type of grass) but I think you need a mower that will cut your grass. My snapper walk behind has never failed to cut (and mulch) anything I attempted, worse case was, I slowed way down. These days I mostly use my zero turn rider (bad back) and so I dont use the snapper near as much.
#3
exotion
exotion
I used a front wheel drive craftsman on my very flat lawn for a long time i loved it easy to turn around and the belt slipping variable speed is just how alot of transmissions work. I think you have the right idea about what you need. A high torque mower will help with thick grass as it wont bog down.
#4
Y
Yardguy
Y
Yardguy
Txzrider and Exotion,
Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences and suggestions. I'm kinda worried about the plastic ring gears on the front tires for the Craftsman mower that I bought since reviews on the Sears website indicate that the plastic gears strip in about a year. Also the slipping belt type variable speed. I'll try asking questions on specific brand forums to try to find out how other mowers work.
Best regards,
YardGuy
Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences and suggestions. I'm kinda worried about the plastic ring gears on the front tires for the Craftsman mower that I bought since reviews on the Sears website indicate that the plastic gears strip in about a year. Also the slipping belt type variable speed. I'll try asking questions on specific brand forums to try to find out how other mowers work.
Best regards,
YardGuy
#5
robert@honda
robert@honda
Yardguy:
Since you mentioned it, having to lift the mower to keep it from stalling in the tall grass is probably easier with a front-wheel drive, BUT, what if you were using a mower didn't stall? I think a better quality mower would probably handle taller grass and would not require you to lift it as you have done with other mowers before.
Those rear "high wheel" mowers are nice for rugged or rutted lawns; the larger wheels help roll the mower, and that's really the only reason to consider one.
Honda SmartDrive models use a slip-belt design to change the speed. Many mower makes use this method as it's proven and helps keep costs down.
Honda Cruise Control models change speed via a hydrostatic transmission. A belt runs from the engine to the transmission and is under constant tension and speed. The input pulley on the transmission runs a small hydraulic pump, and can apply pressure to turn a hydraulic motor that makes the drive axle spin. The operator just move a lever that controls the pressure to change the speed.
Honda Commercial model HRC216 also uses a hydrostatic transmission, but it runs off a driveshaft from the engine and not a belt. This is very durable, and suitable for many, many hours of regular commercial use.
Best of luck in your decisions; ask me anything you might want about Honda stuff.
Since you mentioned it, having to lift the mower to keep it from stalling in the tall grass is probably easier with a front-wheel drive, BUT, what if you were using a mower didn't stall? I think a better quality mower would probably handle taller grass and would not require you to lift it as you have done with other mowers before.
Those rear "high wheel" mowers are nice for rugged or rutted lawns; the larger wheels help roll the mower, and that's really the only reason to consider one.
Honda SmartDrive models use a slip-belt design to change the speed. Many mower makes use this method as it's proven and helps keep costs down.
Honda Cruise Control models change speed via a hydrostatic transmission. A belt runs from the engine to the transmission and is under constant tension and speed. The input pulley on the transmission runs a small hydraulic pump, and can apply pressure to turn a hydraulic motor that makes the drive axle spin. The operator just move a lever that controls the pressure to change the speed.
Honda Commercial model HRC216 also uses a hydrostatic transmission, but it runs off a driveshaft from the engine and not a belt. This is very durable, and suitable for many, many hours of regular commercial use.
Best of luck in your decisions; ask me anything you might want about Honda stuff.
#6
Y
Yardguy
In general, would a 190cc, 6.75 torque rotary mower be considered powerful enough to cut tall grass without lifting?
Thank you very much for this info. If Honda uses slip-belt for variable speed, then it seems it's an acceptable technology.
Thanks a lot for all of your information,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Yardguy:
Since you mentioned it, having to lift the mower to keep it from stalling in the tall grass is probably easier with a front-wheel drive, BUT, what if you were using a mower didn't stall? I think a better quality mower would probably handle taller grass and would not require you to lift it as you have done with other mowers before.
In general, would a 190cc, 6.75 torque rotary mower be considered powerful enough to cut tall grass without lifting?
Honda SmartDrive models use a slip-belt design to change the speed. Many mower makes use this method as it's proven and helps keep costs down.
Thank you very much for this info. If Honda uses slip-belt for variable speed, then it seems it's an acceptable technology.
Thanks a lot for all of your information,
YardGuy
#7
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
The Toro personal pace mowers would fit your needs very well. Prices will vary depending on which model you chose. With your post I suggest that you purchase an extra blade at the time of purchase (no matter which brand) and always keep a sharp blade on at all times. You may have to change them often due to the way you do your mowing. That will make it easier on both you and the machine. Personally I would stay away from all sears models, they just don't stand up to your type of use.
#8
robert@honda
Lots of factors can come into play, turf conditions, grass type, height, mower settings, blade condition, etc. But, in general, yes, I'd say a mower with an OHV-type engine with at least 160cc displacement spinning a 21" blade should be up to the task.
Most of the front-drive units I've seen are side-valve engines, and it's my understanding they don't produce the same torque as an OHV engine. And torque is more critical for a mower's performance in challenging conditions than horsepower. At least that's what the engineers have told me.
robert@honda
In general, would a 190cc, 6.75 torque rotary mower be considered powerful enough to cut tall grass without lifting?
YardGuy
Lots of factors can come into play, turf conditions, grass type, height, mower settings, blade condition, etc. But, in general, yes, I'd say a mower with an OHV-type engine with at least 160cc displacement spinning a 21" blade should be up to the task.
Most of the front-drive units I've seen are side-valve engines, and it's my understanding they don't produce the same torque as an OHV engine. And torque is more critical for a mower's performance in challenging conditions than horsepower. At least that's what the engineers have told me.
#9
Y
Yardguy
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll do more research on the Toro mowers.
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Hi Rivets,The Toro personal pace mowers would fit your needs very well. Prices will vary depending on which model you chose. With your post I suggest that you purchase an extra blade at the time of purchase (no matter which brand) and always keep a sharp blade on at all times. You may have to change them often due to the way you do your mowing. That will make it easier on both you and the machine. Personally I would stay away from all sears models, they just don't stand up to your type of use.
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll do more research on the Toro mowers.
YardGuy
#10
Y
Yardguy
Hi Robert,
Thanks for sharing your in-depth knowledge with us. Very helpful!
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Lots of factors can come into play, turf conditions, grass type, height, mower settings, blade condition, etc. But, in general, yes, I'd say a mower with an OHV-type engine with at least 160cc displacement spinning a 21" blade should be up to the task.
Most of the front-drive units I've seen are side-valve engines, and it's my understanding they don't produce the same torque as an OHV engine. And torque is more critical for a mower's performance in challenging conditions than horsepower. At least that's what the engineers have told me.
Hi Robert,
Thanks for sharing your in-depth knowledge with us. Very helpful!
YardGuy
#11
Ric
Ric
Personally out of the mowers mentioned I'd go with a Honda like your link from Home Depot and I'd stay with the rear wheel drive. If you need good EASY 180 degree turn ability you mite want to look at something like this ( Walk-Behind Mowers by Cub Cadet ) it has the same Honda 160 cc engine as the mower from HD and you never have to pick up the front end to turn around. With the front wheels unlocked they turn in the direction you want to go and it's a variable speed.
#12
Y
Yardguy
Hi Ric,
Thanks for your suggestion. I'm thinking that I need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward, drop down slowly, move back and forth, on the "really tough" zoysia grass we have when it gets a bit tall in wet spots. Also to mow back and forth under my wife's potted plant stands. I'm guessing that FWD will be more compatible with doing those chores than RWD.
Our lawn is flat and relatively level so there's no concern for front wheel slippage on slopes. The RWD Club Cadet you linked to looks like it would be great for turns though.
Thanks,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Personally out of the mowers mentioned I'd go with a Honda like your link from Home Depot and I'd stay with the rear wheel drive. If you need good EASY 180 degree turn ability you mite want to look at something like this ( Walk-Behind Mowers by Cub Cadet ) it has the same Honda 160 cc engine as the mower from HD and you never have to pick up the front end to turn around. With the front wheels unlocked they turn in the direction you want to go and it's a variable speed.
Hi Ric,
Thanks for your suggestion. I'm thinking that I need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward, drop down slowly, move back and forth, on the "really tough" zoysia grass we have when it gets a bit tall in wet spots. Also to mow back and forth under my wife's potted plant stands. I'm guessing that FWD will be more compatible with doing those chores than RWD.
Our lawn is flat and relatively level so there's no concern for front wheel slippage on slopes. The RWD Club Cadet you linked to looks like it would be great for turns though.
Thanks,
YardGuy
#13
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Try the Toro. The personel pace feature is best on the market imo.
When you push harder on the handles it go's faster.
Go for one with a Briggs engine aswell. Best engine!!!
When you push harder on the handles it go's faster.
Go for one with a Briggs engine aswell. Best engine!!!
#14
Ric
I've used both (FWD and RWD ) and the FWD is heavier in the front than a RWD and for me was harder too use. As far as your concern for front wheel slippage on slopes goes I think that comes down to the operator presents. Self propelled mowers are designed to run basically by themselves whether the terrain is flat, hilly or if you're on slopes same as a RWD.
If you're thought is that you need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward and it would be easier than a rear wheel I would have to say it wouldn't be. It seems to me that a (FWD) would heavier in the front than a RWD and with a variable speed if released either becomes a push mower so the back and forth thing wouldn't be a problem with either.
I've run the Honda from HD and it's a good mower no doubt one of the best. I switched to the Cub Cadet 98H ( Honda Engine ) and have run it for two seasons, six days a week and have never had a problem. The nice thing about the 98H is you can do things like corners, following the couture of flower beds and such and do it easier than fighting a regular mower. I wouldn't go back to the Home Depot Honda.. If by chance you go to check out the 98H ask the cc dealer to check for the 190cc Honda engine and see if it's still available.
Ric
Hi Ric,
Thanks for your suggestion. I'm thinking that I need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward, drop down slowly, move back and forth, on the "really tough" zoysia grass we have when it gets a bit tall in wet spots. Also to mow back and forth under my wife's potted plant stands. I'm guessing that FWD will be more compatible with doing those chores than RWD.
Our lawn is flat and relatively level so there's no concern for front wheel slippage on slopes. The RWD Club Cadet you linked to looks like it would be great for turns though.
Thanks,
YardGuy
I've used both (FWD and RWD ) and the FWD is heavier in the front than a RWD and for me was harder too use. As far as your concern for front wheel slippage on slopes goes I think that comes down to the operator presents. Self propelled mowers are designed to run basically by themselves whether the terrain is flat, hilly or if you're on slopes same as a RWD.
If you're thought is that you need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward and it would be easier than a rear wheel I would have to say it wouldn't be. It seems to me that a (FWD) would heavier in the front than a RWD and with a variable speed if released either becomes a push mower so the back and forth thing wouldn't be a problem with either.
I've run the Honda from HD and it's a good mower no doubt one of the best. I switched to the Cub Cadet 98H ( Honda Engine ) and have run it for two seasons, six days a week and have never had a problem. The nice thing about the 98H is you can do things like corners, following the couture of flower beds and such and do it easier than fighting a regular mower. I wouldn't go back to the Home Depot Honda.. If by chance you go to check out the 98H ask the cc dealer to check for the 190cc Honda engine and see if it's still available.
#15
Y
Yardguy
I've only found Toro Personal Pace mowers with rear wheel drive. Do they make Personal Pace mowers with front wheel drive?
Thanks,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Hi pugaltitude,Try the Toro. The personel pace feature is best on the market imo.
When you push harder on the handles it go's faster.
Go for one with a Briggs engine aswell. Best engine!!!
I've only found Toro Personal Pace mowers with rear wheel drive. Do they make Personal Pace mowers with front wheel drive?
Thanks,
YardGuy
#16
exotion
I would not recommend the personal pace. It seems like he needs to be very maneuverable and the personal pace mower is definately not. I use it every day all day and its a fantastic mower but maneuverable is not a discriptive you need a mower you can beat up and get cheap parts for go get a cheap craftsman FWD the gears in the front wont strip unless you have the drive engaged and you stop the wheels from turning. and if you do break it craftsman parts are cheap because no one takes craftsman seriously
exotion
Try the Toro. The personel pace feature is best on the market imo.
When you push harder on the handles it go's faster.
Go for one with a Briggs engine aswell. Best engine!!!
I would not recommend the personal pace. It seems like he needs to be very maneuverable and the personal pace mower is definately not. I use it every day all day and its a fantastic mower but maneuverable is not a discriptive you need a mower you can beat up and get cheap parts for go get a cheap craftsman FWD the gears in the front wont strip unless you have the drive engaged and you stop the wheels from turning. and if you do break it craftsman parts are cheap because no one takes craftsman seriously
#17
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
The Toro personal pace would be great for his use. Very easy to use going in and out of tight spaces. Won't even notice that it is rear wheel drive until he needs to go uphill. Then he will see how well it works. I've sold them to everyone from 20-81 and never had anyone return one. Most have brought me other customers. If you don't think it is maneuverable you aren't using it right or the traction cable is not adjusted right.
#18
exotion
exotion
when you get close to a wall or turning around in a tight corner i find myself pushing and pulling a couple times to get my lines straight and yes i agree its my favorite so far but it is kinda hard to get around in tight spaces. the handle seems really long or maybe not adjusted right? and because of the propel handle being on top when i have to turn around near a bush i will scrape it with my hand some times they are thorny :/
#19
Y
Yardguy
>> It seems to me that a (FWD) would heavier in the front than a RWD and with a variable speed if released either becomes a push mower so the back and forth thing wouldn't be a problem with either. <<
I watched a repair video for a "rear wheel drive" mower on youtube. It showed how, (when it's working normally), the rear wheel can be spun in one direction (with clicks) but not in the opposite direction. Apparently, the rear wheel has a ratchet arrangement which allows free wheeling in one direction only. It seems that this would not be conducive to manually mowing back & forth, even with the variable speed released. I have no idea whether that's how all rear wheel drive mowers work.
Thank you very much for all of your input,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Hi Ric,I've used both (FWD and RWD ) and the FWD is heavier in the front than a RWD and for me was harder too use. As far as your concern for front wheel slippage on slopes goes I think that comes down to the operator presents. Self propelled mowers are designed to run basically by themselves whether the terrain is flat, hilly or if you're on slopes same as a RWD.
If you're thought is that you need front wheel drive (FWD) to be able to lift, push forward and it would be easier than a rear wheel I would have to say it wouldn't be. It seems to me that a (FWD) would heavier in the front than a RWD and with a variable speed if released either becomes a push mower so the back and forth thing wouldn't be a problem with either.
I've run the Honda from HD and it's a good mower no doubt one of the best. I switched to the Cub Cadet 98H ( Honda Engine ) and have run it for two seasons, six days a week and have never had a problem. The nice thing about the 98H is you can do things like corners, following the couture of flower beds and such and do it easier than fighting a regular mower. I wouldn't go back to the Home Depot Honda.. If by chance you go to check out the 98H ask the cc dealer to check for the 190cc Honda engine and see if it's still available.
>> It seems to me that a (FWD) would heavier in the front than a RWD and with a variable speed if released either becomes a push mower so the back and forth thing wouldn't be a problem with either. <<
I watched a repair video for a "rear wheel drive" mower on youtube. It showed how, (when it's working normally), the rear wheel can be spun in one direction (with clicks) but not in the opposite direction. Apparently, the rear wheel has a ratchet arrangement which allows free wheeling in one direction only. It seems that this would not be conducive to manually mowing back & forth, even with the variable speed released. I have no idea whether that's how all rear wheel drive mowers work.
Thank you very much for all of your input,
YardGuy
#20
txzrider
txzrider
I would like to go back to a point I was trying to make and others have said as well. A high quality powerful modern mower should cut anything you can get it to drive through. If I was even remotely concerned the 6hp mower I was buying would need to be lifted and slowly moved forward like the OP is stating ... I would get a bigger friggin' mower! My 60-70's 3.5 / 4.0hp mowers all suffered from the need to push through too high of grass that required back and forth and lifting and such! That all ended by the late 90's when I bought my Snapper 21inch 6hp. At the time it was the most I had ever paid for a mower... but it cut and mulched darn near anything! Wet/dry it does not matter. It goes as slow as I need or as fast as my son wants it to go... to turn corners I let off the drive lever and it turns easy. They offered a front dolly wheel option like the cub cadet that others have mentioned but I never needed it. I have to believe anything toro or honda or cub cadet with 6.something engine and a sharp blade will cut what you need. If it does not, you need more motor anyway which puts you in the 8.75 toro timecutter 30 inch type mower for twice the price. I dont know anything about the current snapper equiv of what I have ... but if it is as good as mine, I would recommend it as well. I also believe rear wheel drive will push through tall grass better than front wheel drive as well... just my personal experience for what its worth.
#21
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Both the Honda and Toro mowers have racheting rear wheels that allow the operator to pull them backwards as if there was no self-propel. Both work very well and last a long time if kept clean.
#22
exotion
exotion
My little 20'' RWD toro with a 7.0 torque motor never bogged down and always left a clean cut and i put it through hell wet grass up to 8''+ and it only cost me i think around $200 new it was also the best mulcher i ever owned
#23
Y
Yardguy
From your info, I'll probably find that a 6.x torque mower with a sharp blade will mow through our tough zoysia grass without all of the gymnastics. It only grows tall in spots so it wouldn't be worth buying a 8.75 mower at twice the price. I guess I should have bought a new 6.x mower years ago rather than do all of the contortions with our underpowered push rotary mowers.
Thanks for the help,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
I have to believe anything toro or honda or cub cadet with 6.something engine and a sharp blade will cut what you need. If it does not, you need more motor anyway which puts you in the 8.75 toro timecutter 30 inch type mower for twice the price.
From your info, I'll probably find that a 6.x torque mower with a sharp blade will mow through our tough zoysia grass without all of the gymnastics. It only grows tall in spots so it wouldn't be worth buying a 8.75 mower at twice the price. I guess I should have bought a new 6.x mower years ago rather than do all of the contortions with our underpowered push rotary mowers.
Thanks for the help,
YardGuy
#24
Y
Yardguy
Hi Rivets,
To mow back & forth with those rear wheel drive mowers, does one have to:
..... 1. Release the drive.
..... 2. Let the mower move forward a bit.
..... 3. Pull backward (ratcheting action).
..... 4. Engage the drive to move forward.
..... 5. Repeat steps 1-4 to go back & forth.
I assume that the ratcheting action will prevent "pushing" the mower on the forward stroke so the drive has to be engaged for each forward stroke. Is that correct?
Thanks,
YardGuy
Y
Yardguy
Both the Honda and Toro mowers have racheting rear wheels that allow the operator to pull them backwards as if there was no self-propel. Both work very well and last a long time if kept clean.
Hi Rivets,
To mow back & forth with those rear wheel drive mowers, does one have to:
..... 1. Release the drive.
..... 2. Let the mower move forward a bit.
..... 3. Pull backward (ratcheting action).
..... 4. Engage the drive to move forward.
..... 5. Repeat steps 1-4 to go back & forth.
I assume that the ratcheting action will prevent "pushing" the mower on the forward stroke so the drive has to be engaged for each forward stroke. Is that correct?
Thanks,
YardGuy
#25
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
With the Toro PP mowers it's just like having no self-propel action. You have to try it to under stand. You want to go forward, start walking forward. You want to go backwards, stop and pull back. It's just that simple.
#26
Y
Yardguy
OK, thanks. :smile:
Y
Yardguy
With the Toro PP mowers it's just like having no self-propel action. You have to try it to under stand. You want to go forward, start walking forward. You want to go backwards, stop and pull back. It's just that simple.
OK, thanks. :smile:
#27
Y
Yardguy
Y
Yardguy
Bought a John Deere mower.
Hi folks,
I ended up returning the Craftsman mower (without even opening the box) and buying a John Deere JS28, 22", FWD gas mower from Lowes. I posted a review of the JS28 in the John Deere forum for anyone interested.
Thanks for all of your help,
YardGuy
Hi folks,
I ended up returning the Craftsman mower (without even opening the box) and buying a John Deere JS28, 22", FWD gas mower from Lowes. I posted a review of the JS28 in the John Deere forum for anyone interested.
Thanks for all of your help,
YardGuy
#28
D
DDS
!) IMO rear wheel drive is a must have for steep hilly yards. You get extra traction simply by pushing forward. There is a naturally occurring vertical downward force component from the forward push. This downward force on the rear wheels is amplified further as you push down and remove weight from the front wheels. The exact opposite occurs with front wheel drive - you loose traction. Also front wheel drive normally does not have differential drive. Maybe the newer mowers do. However front wheel drive is fine for flat level lawns. There is no reason why you can't also raise the front of a rear wheel drive mower in order to get over high grass. All power propelled rear wheel drive mowers have differential drive on both rear wheels.
2) The geometry and weight of a mower are the main factors that effect the handling (or lack of) on any mowers and it is getting harder to find lightweight mowers that come in small packages. I have a Toro that is one of the most reliable mowers I have ever owned but it is monster in size and weight and handles like an antique car. In days gone by manufactures boasted of their powerful small lightweight mower designs. Today it is hard to find a mower that you can even lift up on the work shop table without help. I have an old 20" Homelite mower (now) with a 6 3/4 hp motor that has a small aluminum deck only 20 1/2 wide x 25 1/2 long that weighs only 63 lbs full of gas. @ 68 years old I can still lift it up to the work bench by myself. It's all engine! They simply don't make a mower like that anymore. Above all else you must consider size, geometry and weight.
3)My old Homelite also has internal plastic drive gear wheels driven by metal pinions. I have bought only three sets of wheels over the past 21 years and have retreaded the wheels several times. (You can actually buy the rubber retreads and replace the rubber). The point is the plastic internal gears molded into the wheel hubs have lasted very well - I just retreaded my very first set again this year the plastic gear teeth are still fine. The one thing you might consider, however is the bore hole through the wheel. The bore thru my Homelite wheels were plastic and the bore deteriorated long ago - they wear into some sort of an uneven ellipse and the wheel starts wobbling on the axle. I have a little lathe and I simply re-bored and reamed a new mtg hole and then hammered in a 1/2 bore steel bushing. These bushings have lasted well. I realize not everybody can accomplish this so you might want to look for a mower that comes with steel bushed wheels. Toro has steel bushings in their wheels as well as steel gears and pinions. However the plastic part of the Toro wheels does not last - cracks after a few years, so the high quality aspect of the steel bushings and gears is worthless.
4)The design of the transmission varies between manufactures. And the design make s huge difference in the handling. My Toro has a transmission gear box that has lasted for years, however the dam thing is NOT a positive drive. It is a "tendency" drive meaning it is designed to slip. They give you a set amount of torque that the gearbox will transmit and that is all you will ever get. The problem is the amount of torque they give you is simply not enough except for level flat lawns. I have steep areas in my yard and I soon discovered that the Toro would not pull up the hill and cut at the same time. I tried to take it back but I was told that the mower I had chosen was for residential use and that it was clearly stated in the sales brochure (which it was) and that I should have bought their commercial mower (that weighed hundreds of lbs). My old Homelite has a positive drive gearbox, which has worn out about every 7 years and is a pain to rebuild, but when I want it to go - IT GOES! You are right about the variable speed - it is simply a slipping action that is finicky and which can be a major drawback. This aspect of choosing a mower will be the most difficult to discover and come to a decision because even the sales people don't usually know and if they do they won't tell you the whole truth. The engines used on all mowers are a separate consideration and IMO not very important to consider simply because they are all good and reliable. They are seldom a problem other than maintenance and when something breaks you can purchases any part directly from the engine manufacturer and there is ample diagrams and parts list available to help.
5) Sorry I can't actually give any comparison of other mowers but maybe the discussion will be of some help. I hope your new John Deer works out fine. I recall when I purchased my Toro (model 20036) 10 years ago that I stayed away from the John Deer's because they offered nothing but very heavy mowers, albeit high quality.
'residential
D
DDS
First time poster. Been using push Craftsman rotary mowers (two) for years. Our lawns are flat on a small lot of 5000 sq. feet including the house. Getting on in years so when our current Craftsman push rotary blade retainer stripped, have decided to get a self propelled rotary now.
The grass is zoysia and can be pretty tough to cut. I'm not a religious mower so the grass can get a bit tall (1.5 inches higher than normal) at times with some spots with different grass a bit higher.
When I mow the lawn, sometimes in spots I have to tilt the mower, push it over the tall grass and then slowly lower the mower to prevent binding up the blade and stopping the engine. Also since our front and back yards are relatively small, I need good EASY 180 degree turn ability.
Could you tell me if my current ideas for buying a mower are OK or bad? My ideas are:
1. I'm thinking that I need to get front wheel drive to be able to tilt the mower up, push forward over tall spots, and slowly lower the mower to cut the tall grass gradually. This would only be is some spots, not the whole yard. Since our front and back yards are flat, I don't need rear wheel drive. Would front wheel drive be best for this type of cutting situation?
2. When I handled two self propelled mowers in Sears, I noticed that the one with large rear wheels was harder to push the handle down due to the weight of the mower. It seems that with the larger rear wheels, the wheel pivot points are further back which increases the leverage of the weight of the mower making the mower appear to be heaver. So I'm thinking that when I make 180 degree turns, small rear wheels will be less work due to less weight when tilting the mower to make the turns. Are these correct assumptions?
3. I bought a Craftsmans 370660 front wheel drive mower with small rear wheels yesterday. I haven't unboxed it yet. When I did some research this morning, I saw that this model has plastic ring gears on the front wheels and small metal gears to drive the front wheels. Should I just return this mower or can this configuration last if I grease the gears well?
4. Which mowers have good variable speed mechanisms? The Craftsman 370660 appears to have a drive belt to a small pulley that's mounted on the vertical to horizontal gear box. Sears advertises this model as having variable speed but it seems it is misleading since variable speed appears to be just loosening the belt to let it slip. Seems like a trick advertising. How do other mowers achieve variable speed?
5. Which mower would you recommend for my situation? Would this Honda HRR216VKA at Home Depot be better even though it has rear wheel drive?
21 in. Steel Deck Smart Drive Variable Speed Self-Propelled Gas Mower-HRR216VKA at The Home Depot
Thanks,
Yardguy
!) IMO rear wheel drive is a must have for steep hilly yards. You get extra traction simply by pushing forward. There is a naturally occurring vertical downward force component from the forward push. This downward force on the rear wheels is amplified further as you push down and remove weight from the front wheels. The exact opposite occurs with front wheel drive - you loose traction. Also front wheel drive normally does not have differential drive. Maybe the newer mowers do. However front wheel drive is fine for flat level lawns. There is no reason why you can't also raise the front of a rear wheel drive mower in order to get over high grass. All power propelled rear wheel drive mowers have differential drive on both rear wheels.
2) The geometry and weight of a mower are the main factors that effect the handling (or lack of) on any mowers and it is getting harder to find lightweight mowers that come in small packages. I have a Toro that is one of the most reliable mowers I have ever owned but it is monster in size and weight and handles like an antique car. In days gone by manufactures boasted of their powerful small lightweight mower designs. Today it is hard to find a mower that you can even lift up on the work shop table without help. I have an old 20" Homelite mower (now) with a 6 3/4 hp motor that has a small aluminum deck only 20 1/2 wide x 25 1/2 long that weighs only 63 lbs full of gas. @ 68 years old I can still lift it up to the work bench by myself. It's all engine! They simply don't make a mower like that anymore. Above all else you must consider size, geometry and weight.
3)My old Homelite also has internal plastic drive gear wheels driven by metal pinions. I have bought only three sets of wheels over the past 21 years and have retreaded the wheels several times. (You can actually buy the rubber retreads and replace the rubber). The point is the plastic internal gears molded into the wheel hubs have lasted very well - I just retreaded my very first set again this year the plastic gear teeth are still fine. The one thing you might consider, however is the bore hole through the wheel. The bore thru my Homelite wheels were plastic and the bore deteriorated long ago - they wear into some sort of an uneven ellipse and the wheel starts wobbling on the axle. I have a little lathe and I simply re-bored and reamed a new mtg hole and then hammered in a 1/2 bore steel bushing. These bushings have lasted well. I realize not everybody can accomplish this so you might want to look for a mower that comes with steel bushed wheels. Toro has steel bushings in their wheels as well as steel gears and pinions. However the plastic part of the Toro wheels does not last - cracks after a few years, so the high quality aspect of the steel bushings and gears is worthless.
4)The design of the transmission varies between manufactures. And the design make s huge difference in the handling. My Toro has a transmission gear box that has lasted for years, however the dam thing is NOT a positive drive. It is a "tendency" drive meaning it is designed to slip. They give you a set amount of torque that the gearbox will transmit and that is all you will ever get. The problem is the amount of torque they give you is simply not enough except for level flat lawns. I have steep areas in my yard and I soon discovered that the Toro would not pull up the hill and cut at the same time. I tried to take it back but I was told that the mower I had chosen was for residential use and that it was clearly stated in the sales brochure (which it was) and that I should have bought their commercial mower (that weighed hundreds of lbs). My old Homelite has a positive drive gearbox, which has worn out about every 7 years and is a pain to rebuild, but when I want it to go - IT GOES! You are right about the variable speed - it is simply a slipping action that is finicky and which can be a major drawback. This aspect of choosing a mower will be the most difficult to discover and come to a decision because even the sales people don't usually know and if they do they won't tell you the whole truth. The engines used on all mowers are a separate consideration and IMO not very important to consider simply because they are all good and reliable. They are seldom a problem other than maintenance and when something breaks you can purchases any part directly from the engine manufacturer and there is ample diagrams and parts list available to help.
5) Sorry I can't actually give any comparison of other mowers but maybe the discussion will be of some help. I hope your new John Deer works out fine. I recall when I purchased my Toro (model 20036) 10 years ago that I stayed away from the John Deer's because they offered nothing but very heavy mowers, albeit high quality.
'residential