Tiger Cat, Turf Tiger, Cheeta?

[jekjr]

Some of you guys on here I think have run Scag mowers for some years now.

I bought my first one in the summer of 2014. Then bought my second one this Summer 2015. I am strongly am considering buying a third in 2016.

Both of the mowers that I bought are 52" Tiger Cats with 22 hp Kawasaki motors on them.

We cut a very varied clientele. We cut property as large as 14 or 15 acres and property as small as 1/4 acre or less. We cut nice grass on weekly cuts and we cut Pensacola Bahia that is Bi-Weekly cuts. We cut some yards that are down right rough and some of about anything you can name in between.

What i am looking at is when i purchase another mower, which one to buy? Now I know I want Scag. That is not even in the equation. But do I want another Tigercat just like the two I already have? Do I want to get one with the 61" deck? Do I want to spend the extra dollars and buy the Turf Tiger or the Cheeta ect...?

The Turf Tigers and Cheetas are considerably more money. Of course in many situations the wider decks will speed things up some. In many other situations however I have found in my operation anyway the 52" Tigercat is so stinking fast and quick and maneuverable that I am not sure that the larger mowers will be that noticeably more productive.

As far as reliability will the Turf Tiger wth say a diesel be really make me that much more money over the lifetime of the machine?

People say all the time well they make so many different ones because everybody has a preference.

For me anyway I cut grass to make a living. When we put mowers on the ground the goal is get grass cut ASAP with a neat quality job, and get gone.

I guess what I am looking at is what is going to be the most profitable machines to run that will continue to give me the most productivity and quality of work?

Do any of you have any ideas as to what is most profitable and why?

Example: A 52" Tigercat with a 22 hp Kawasaki is in the $8500 range. A Turf Tiger with a diesel is in the $16K range. Will the Turf tiger ever cut enough grass to offset the differance verses the Tiger cat?

 

[Mad Mackie]

Scag doesn't have as many models in their line as some manufacturers do and the decision process is easier. Scag, like all the rest, do have variations of each model, so one needs to do their homework regardless.
There are several angles to look at your situation.
$16,000 is a chunk of change and you can buy almost two Tiger Cats for one diesel Turf Tiger.
Staying with Tiger Cats streamlines your maintenance with the exception of blades should you change from the 52" deck size.
The mower decks on Tiger Cats, Cheetahs and Turf Tigers are similar, the machines are somewhat different from each other.
Tiger Cats have pumps and wheel motors with a common oil reservoir as do the Turf Tigers. Turf Tigers have higher output pumps with matching wheel motors.
Cheetahs on the other hand have individual hydrostatic drive units, ZT3400 or ZT 5400 depending on deck size, the ZT5400 being a two speed unit. Engine options with higher HP are different on the wider deck Cheetahs. They also have a common hydraulic reservoir for both drive units with separate oil filters on each drive unit.
Tiger Cats and Cheetahs have vertical shaft engines whereas Turf Tigers have a horizontal shaft engine and this changes several things. The hydraulic pumps are sideways which is not a big deal and driven by a V belt that is accessible from above the machine frame and in front of the engine. The deck clutch is also on the front of the engine. The deck drive V belt drives a 90 degree gearbox, a drive shaft, another 90 degree gearbox, then a V belt to drive the deck and its V belt. Although this system has proven itself, there is more maintenance required and more parts should something fail.
The addition of a diesel engine adds another type of fuel is needed to be stored, identified and transported. Confusion between gasoline and diesel fuel has been a problem for some operators.
I see more Cheetahs on trailers recently, some operators have replaced older Turf Tigers with Cheetahs. I haven't heard any recent comments about Cheetahs verses Turf Tigers. There are still a lot of Turf Tigers in my area, some are older models, and I have repowered several for operators.
So do your homework, think about it and give yourself some time to make a sound decision. 48 month no interest financing is very attractive!!!!

 

[jekjr]

Scag doesn't have as many models in their line as some manufacturers do and the decision process is easier. Scag, like all the rest, do have variations of each model, so one needs to do their homework regardless. There are several angles to look at your situation. $16,000 is a chunk of change and you can buy almost two Tiger Cats for one diesel Turf Tiger. Staying with Tiger Cats streamlines your maintenance with the exception of blades should you change from the 52" deck size. The mower decks on Tiger Cats, Cheetahs and Turf Tigers are similar, the machines are somewhat different from each other. Tiger Cats have pumps and wheel motors with a common oil reservoir as do the Turf Tigers. Turf Tigers have higher output pumps with matching wheel motors. Cheetahs on the other hand have individual hydrostatic drive units, ZT3400 or ZT 5400 depending on deck size, the ZT5400 being a two speed unit. Engine options with higher HP are different on the wider deck Cheetahs. They also have a common hydraulic reservoir for both drive units with separate oil filters on each drive unit. Tiger Cats and Cheetahs have vertical shaft engines whereas Turf Tigers have a horizontal shaft engine and this changes several things. The hydraulic pumps are sideways which is not a big deal and driven by a V belt that is accessible from above the machine frame and in front of the engine. The deck clutch is also on the front of the engine. The deck drive V belt drives a 90 degree gearbox, a drive shaft, another 90 degree gearbox, then a V belt to drive the deck and its V belt. Although this system has proven itself, there is more maintenance required and more parts should something fail. The addition of a diesel engine adds another type of fuel is needed to be stored, identified and transported. Confusion between gasoline and diesel fuel has been a problem for some operators. I see more Cheetahs on trailers recently, some operators have replaced older Turf Tigers with Cheetahs. I haven't heard any recent comments about Cheetahs verses Turf Tigers. There are still a lot of Turf Tigers in my area, some are older models, and I have repowered several for operators. So do your homework, think about it and give yourself some time to make a sound decision. 48 month no interest financing is very attractive!!!!

Thanks for your input. That is a good read and some good info on these mowers.

I went with my first Tiger cat last summer. It now is coming up on 600 hours. Was so impressed with it that i bought the second this April. It has about 450 hours on it now. i was running a ZD326 Kubota. It had about 700 hours on it and was going out of warranty shortly when I got rid of it.

I got to looking at how much simpler the Tiger cat was to work on. How many fewer parts it had, and various other things you mentioned in the comparison of the Scag mowers and realized that so much of that stuff translated into dollars I had to make just to have the mower not put in my pocket. Plus I got to thinking that once the machines went out of warranty should something unforeseen happen and cause a catastrophic engine failure the price of getting back up running was going to be another fraction of what the diesel was going to cost me.

I guess most of us doing this for a business have to have a different business plan in some way because the areas we work in vary so much and the conditions we have to work under vary considerably as well, (some guys only cut weekly cuts in high end neighborhoods while others cut only 2 week cuts in rough rural areas many times with acreage.) Therefore what will work best or most economical for one won't do so much as well for the other.

I truly can't say that the Scag is the best commercial mower on the market for the dollar. I have not operated many other brands or models a they are not available easily in my immediate area. I do know that hands down it cuts grass better than anything I have seen run that is comparable in price.

My goal right now is to run mine 5 years and then replace them. If I have the success with them that some people operating them seem to have had I am not sure that I won't run mine longer.

The differences in the prices of the Tiger cat, Turf Tiger, and Cheetah plus the variables thrown in for different engines ect is definitely mind boggling. What is even more interesting to me though is the bottom line of what that machine has made when it is ready to be replaced. For instance, an $8500 machine that has run virtually trouble free for 5 years plus verses say a $16,000 machine that has run virtually trouble free for the same length of time. In my particular application both will be cut approximately the exact same amount of grass and turned the same gross income. With that said that is an additional $1000+ per year in my pocket.

It is a lot to think about. I guess that is the reason they make so many different variables. So that everybody can work out what is best for their particular application.

 

[Mad Mackie]

In recent years I was contracted to quick response service for several large cemeteries. They each 5 or 6 ZTRs plus other equipment, both had diesel powered ZTRs. With a few full time workers and summer workers, there was and still is a learning curve every spring with these folks.
The diesel machines were run out of fuel, gasoline was put into the diesel fuel tanks some times, diesel fuel was put into several gasoline powered machines. Diesel fuel was put into red jugs and gasoline put into yellow jugs even when the gas station attendants commented about it.
These diesel powered machines are liquid cooled which presents another problem with the untrained and or uninterested operator beyond the fuel problems.
And then the miss-diagnosed situations and lack of post operation maintenance that cause unnecessary and costly down time.
Every machine at these cemeteries was a different make and with every major brand of engine possible. I no longer have these contracts and have a lot less stress!!!
My point being that keeping your machines the same will put more money in your pocket and you will have a much lower stress level, both of which are good!!
One of my fellow operators that has Turf Tigers keeps a spare engine in stock at my recommendation. He has not as yet needed it, but has sold and then restocked a new spare engine several times over. The problem with ordering new engines is that they must be shipped by truck to a normally open business address and this is not easy for operators to deal with, or go to a dealer and pay the higher prices.
Just a few more thoughts from Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Mad Mackie]

I haven't as yet warmed up to Scag Cheetahs, not sure why, could be because I'm and old hard headed Swamp Yankee that did 24 years in the military!
When they first arrived, folks that bought them either loved them or strongly disliked them, but neither really expressed why. It will take time for the Cheetahs to establish themselves to be favorable or not.
Turf Tigers have improved over the years as the early models had some frame structural defects. But for the most part, Turf Tigers have been very durable with relatively few problems.
Bear in mind the Scag warranty is not transferable to subsequent owners, consider this when thinking about trading in machines that are still on warranty to you. Check to see if Scag has a fleet program, I have heard some operators speak favorably about the fleet purchasing programs.

 

[jekjr]

My point being that keeping your machines the same will put more money in your pocket and you will have a much lower stress level, both of which are good!!

That was my intention when I swapped over to Scag Tiger cats. I have two identical ones. I don't have to guess. Blades, belts, parts........... SAME. Plus for the length of time we have been running them anyway they appear pretty much bullet proof and idiot proof.

Keep the oil checked and the gas will take care of its self and when refilling there are only two cans on the trailer and they are both the same.......... Except for mixed gas and it is clearly marked........