Cylinder scratches & internal rust on new Vanguard

[I'llTakeTwo]

I just returned a new 18HP B&S Vanguard (came w/ no muffler) because I noticed rust spots on the exhaust valve stems and upon further examination with a borescope camera found internal rust and some cylinder scratches/scoring. One valve head had heavy rust, the remaining had either light rust or moderate rust spots. Also rust at the weldment points on the oil pickup tube. I would have been okay with the rust b/c the valve seats I could see looked clean and should have ended up fine, but I wasn't okay with the scratches.
I'm wondering how common scratches are in new engines. I couldn't tell if they were light or moderate, maybe they would be burnished out during break-in. I know I've taken down engines in the past that have had less scratches than these though. Anybody in the know have any thoughts?

FWIW, they didn't want to exchange/sell me another engine after this, they actually blocked my account from any further purchases from them, but I found a way to get another one ordered anyway. I'm hoping the next one will be in better shape but either way I'd like a feel for what I should put up with. I don't have much choice at this point b/c I can't find another engine at this price.

 

[Rivets]

To me they don’t look that bad and I would probably just used the engine and check again after breakin. Just looks like someone was turning an unlubricated engine over by hand. That being said, I would agree with you in returning it and getting a different engine, even though they didn’t like it, was the way to go.

 

[I'llTakeTwo]

To me they don’t look that bad and I would probably just used the engine and check again after breakin. Just looks like someone was turning an unlubricated engine over by hand. That being said, I would agree with you in returning it and getting a different engine, even though they didn’t like it, was the way to go.

Thanks for the feedback. I was also concerned by the little "chunkies" kinda spattered around the cylinder and additional wear that might occur after startup, then be stuck with an iffy engine. This is a company that sells online through their website and ebay. I purchased through ebay b/c this engine was listed with free returns within 30 days, but no free returns via their website. Oh, and no returns if fuel or oil is added.
I submitted all my pics asking about either a return or a discount and they would only offer $100 off. They also stated that B&S test ran them and that the engines wouldn't be "spotless", this after submitting pictures showing rust and scoring. lol, sigh...

 

[Rivets]

After reading your post, I have one suggestion for you and anyone else reading this thread. STOP USING THIS COMPANY. First, they don’t know what they are talking about, Briggs does not test run all there engines. Second, no returns after 30 days, or if oil or fuel is added, bullcocky. What do you do if there is a flaw in the engine. Third, selling returns with this warranty is someone trying to just make money with no customer service. Finally, please post the name of the company so others don’t fall into this trap. Edit: when you get the replacement, please take some pictures of the box and how it is packed. From those we can tell if it is an OEM shipped engine or a return from some other sources.

 

[I'llTakeTwo]

After reading your post, I have one suggestion for you and anyone else reading this thread. STOP USING THIS COMPANY. First, they don’t know what they are talking about, Briggs does not test run all there engines. Second, no returns after 30 days, or if oil or fuel is added, bullcocky. What do you do if there is a flaw in the engine. Third, selling returns with this warranty is someone trying to just make money with no customer service. Finally, please post the name of the company so others don’t fall into this trap. Edit: when you get the replacement, please take some pictures of the box and how it is packed. From those we can tell if it is an OEM shipped engine or a return from some other sources.

I would prefer to order from somewhere else, but $1200 is all I can justify spending. Next cheapest Vanguard I've seen is approximately $1600, not even sure if they are in stock. This engine is a replacement on an older DR wood chipper that I recently bought. The day after I purchased it, I discovered the engine is gonna die soon due to spalling on cylinder walls. Water got into the cylinders and rusted the rings. It started and seemed to run fine when I went to buy it, but it doesn't like starting when engine is hot. The seller is now ghosting me, allowing me to take the hit.
As far as B&S doing a test run, the B&S Vanguard tech support guy I spoke to the other day stated, yes, the engines (at least Vanguards) are started before leaving the factory and crankcases are then drained. I'm assuming they use an external fuel tank and connect directly to that at a test station as the fuel tank on the engine had absolutely no hint of any gasoline odor. I could tell that the engine had at least been started by looking at the spark plug tips when I did the borescope.
The first engine arrived in an original factory box. It had a large white sticker w/ the engine S/N and barcode from the factory. It had "Trust the Power" with "Vanguard" in large font underneath and I think an image of the engine. I'll post a picture of the box/packing when the second engine shows up.
As for the return policy, I've seen places over the years with the no returns once fueled up policy, so that's not that unusual to me. In fact, the dealer I recently purchased my Echo chainsaw from is that way. Actually they fuel them up and run it themselves before selling it. Any issues after the sale is a warranty claim. I figure they're trying to protect themselves from dumb and/or unscrupulous customers.
The B&S engine I returned is supposed to be looked at by their mechanics and a decision made whether it can be resold as new or will be sold at a discount. I was told that if they sold it at a discount, it would be from the local store so they could provide the warranty service.
The real problem I have with this company is that they initially tried to BS me with the "won't be pristine inside" statement, then ended up trying to refuse selling me a second engine. This tells me they had no problem selling this particular lot of engines, likely to also have rust, etc., to unsuspecting customers unlikely to notice or check for internal issues. Of course they knew I'd check and didn't want to risk having another return w/ them paying return shipping.

 

[I'llTakeTwo]

I forgot that I took a few pictures of the engine and box as proof of condition before the driver took it. I've attached them. The engine is secured in the box at the bottom with a thick piece of cardboard with a cutout for the crankcase to fit in. The top has a similar piece of cardboard that fits snugly over the gas tank.

 

[Rivets]

I believe what you posted, but don’t believe what you were told. Many years ago, before I retired, I had the opportunity to tour a Briggs and Stratton manufacturing facility and can tell you that NOT all engines are tested before shipping. Saw engines go directly from the manufacturing line into boxes. There evidence you posted of scratches show that the engine was rotated in a dry condition. The packaging you posted does look like manufacturing line packaging. There are many ways to read warranty statements and yes once INSTALLED you need to go through Briggs warranty claims. I still stand behind My statement, look for another supplier, but understand your reasoning to stick with them at this time. Good Luck in your venture.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

Riv, do you think those vertical lines maybe from honing, i.e. the hone was dragged out of the cylinder instead of collapsed or pulled out while rotating.. depending on how briggs does it.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

I would find it hard to believe that they add the proper amount of oil to every vanguard engine then add some liquid fuel then test run for X minutes then drain that oil AND drain ALL the liquid fuel from the fuel system including the float bowl. I would believe they assemble the engine with assembly lube and then fire the engine on a mix of air and propane for a couple seconds then put it in a box and ship it.

 

[sgkent]

I can't find another engine at this price

this says it all.