break in hints?

chainsaw69

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have a new kubota Z726X with a 24 hp kawasaki FX801V ? on it. manual says to change oil and filter after first 8 hours use. also to take it easy on the machine during break in period. back in the day, waaay back, when rebuilding engines for autos, we immediately ran new engine at about 3000 rpm for maybe a minute then new oil and filter. then again for 10 minutes, then repeat. purpose was to get all the burrs etc off the moving parts ASAP and out of the engine via oil changes. and to drive the vehicle fast/slow, fast/slow for even wear on cylinders via piston flex. i have asked several people why this no longer applies to new cars, mowers etc and the answer is always well oil is better now, or engines just don't need that break in period anymore. i think thats BS and defies the laws of logic BUT am willing to admit i'm wrong. so.....do i change the oil and filter now (2 hours on mower) or wait till the 8 hours is up? thanks
 

cpurvis

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You won't be gaining anything by trying to out-think Kawasaki. If their engines needed to be broken in the old fashioned way, that's what would would be in the manual.
 

mhavanti

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Since you've built engines, you understand they are as good as they'll ever be the first time they're fired. I have several race cars in museums around the globe and each engine was run WOT immediately after firing.

In the Hughes Machine Endurotech Engines that came out of my shop to the public. Instructions I gave were to make sure you do not baby the engines as they don't require it and neither do you. You paid good money for my shop to build an engine to do a job, go use it, it will do the job. Run it like you stole it.

Don't fall for any of these guys telling you to change the oil filter every other oil change either. Remember the most important thing about engine oil. It comes out of dirt. You filter the oil to get rid of the dirt to use it in your engines. You don't necessarily have to change the oil, you do have to change the filter. What is it you're trying to get rid of when you change the oil? Dirt ( carbon, metallic particles, fuel, etc.) so what is most important to change? Oil or filter? If the engine oil has raw fuel in it, drain it, evaporate the fuel off, run it through a filter and you can use it again. I don't suggest doing it, however, many companies have made billions doing that and reselling it to the same people that gave it away.

So, to close, change the oil and filter after 5 hours, then run the hell out of it for another 45 hours, change the oil and filter and do it again for another 50 hours.

My old saying still applies today: Run it like you stole it, if you break it, fix it. You'll be much happier with your machine if you run that Kawasaki engine WOT for mowing. Keep an ear open for the rocker arms getting loose. You'll be able to hear them. Adjust the valves, keep the air cleaner clean, oil clean, the engine will serve you well.

Good luck,

Max
 

bertsmobile1

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Running in is a process of parts wearing into each other and specifically the rings wearing into the bore and the rod wearing into the crank.
Other than that, the engine gets hot and then cools down so stretch & thermal expansion need to be taken into account.
On top of that burs & other detritis that fall off parts needs to be removed.
Thinks have changed a lot since the old days.
Metallurgy went forward leaps & bounds when you had to make engines that were faster than the enemies.
Machining also has come leaps & bounds so each & every part that is made is so close to identical you need a strong microscope to measure the differences.

So you need to change the oil and filter very early in the process to remove the crap that was left in there during manufacture.
To seal, rings need a lot of pressure to force them into the cylinder walls.
On a car or bike you do this by opening up the throttle wide then backing off several times and lots of wide open throttle, in lower gears with light loads on the engine.

However you have a governed engine so the only way to load the engine is to slow it down allowing the governor to open the throttle fully.
The best way to do this is to engage the blades, repeatidly and take light cuts for the first hour or so.
After that if it is not run in it never will be.

What you have to avoid at all costs is running no load at low speeds. This does not create sufficient pressure to force the rings into the bore so you end up with a glazed bore.

Now because you can not trust that the engine was properly assembled, it is important to check the valve lash, particularly on Kawasaki engine that use the single bolt to retain the rocker mechanism.
So on the first service, all fasteners should be checked for tightness, the valve lash reset the oil & filter changed.
After that maintenance according to the manufacturers recommendations should be fine.
It will not kill the engine or break the bank to shorten the interval but don't expect to get twice the life out of an engine because you changed the oil at 1/2 the recommended intervals.

Unless the crank runs on ball & roller bearings, the engine is a throw away and very little the owner can do will change this fact.
Nearly all mower engines are made like this because it is very cheap to make them without bearings and cheap s what the market wants.
If the market wanted good then Onan & Honda would still be making mower engines.

As a repair technician if I was to describe modern engine then it would be "almost good enough to outlast the warranty" and just barely good enough to do the job at hand.
Joe public want bigger cause bigger has to be better despite they all run at the same speed so what sells is the highest Hp : $ ratio, life span is never a consideration.
 

chainsaw69

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bert & max....ur preaching to the choir i agree 100%. i bought a new toyota highlander in 2016 as we drive hour and a half each way to austin each week at 80-85 mph. i never ever let it get past the 3-5k mark before i change the oil and filter. i'm always amazed at how much flack i get from the younger (and a lot of older too) crowd that point to ads PROVING that brand x oil will last up to 100,000 miles or only has to be changed once a year. one guy even insisted that synthetic oil is so good these days it doesn't even start working until it has 5,000 miles on it. i asked the toyota salesman what "break in " oil was and how is it diff. from regular oil. he had no clue. neither do i. when did common sense and logic leave the scene?? friends of ours said recently they were watching t.v. with their grown kids during a visit and they either muted or skipped over the commercials and the kids said why do you do that how do you expect to learn anything about the product if you don't see the ads? and thats the problem. a friend said he only changes the oil when then maintence light comes on in his truck as the mfg. put a sensor in the engine block to sense dirty oil. the salesman told him so. my kids are now mostly city kids ****** but they know that if you don't know how long its been between oil changes go remove the dipstick and let it drip on ur finger and if it feels gritty at all rubbing ur fingers change the damn stuff. ITS DIRTY! common sense. anyways.......from as stated before, by having built very few 350 4 bolt mains and one 302 in the van i couldn't see how a new lawnmower engine could be diff. from a new truck/car engine. new parts with burrs on em, faster is better to remove said burrs, pistons flexing and rings sealing, etc etc adds up to one thing. frequent oil and filter changes. to me anyway, its not rocket science, its common sense.
 

bertsmobile1

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Actually mowers are cruder ruder & far more unsofisticated than any engine built after 1954.

Break in oil is thinner than running oil and has no anti corrosion addatives in it nor mush in the way of stabiizers as it is only meant to be in there for a short time.
Basically it is a one use really cheap oil.
As for not knowing , you are exactly right we are breeding the most pig ignorant useless arrogrant generations ever to walk the planet.
They don't need to know because the phone knows all.
We stopped teaching any useful science decades ago cause it was too difficult so the kids did not get a high enough mark to go to Uni and study economics & accounting, the stuff that is really important
 

chainsaw69

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now i know what break in oil is. thanks. i always figured it was regular oil with the name "break in" to make the customer feel better.
little hot stuff about 20 or so called me one day maybe 5 years ago from the next property down as her car wouldn't/turn over. i got there and the batt was dry. asked her why she isn't regularly checking the water level and the look on her face was priceless. total confusion. what? batterys have water in them are you SURE? i showed her the dry plates and she said WATER goes in there? i added water and jumped her (her battery) and she drove into town and got a totally enclosed battery. called me and said you were right! he said batterys DO have water.
daughter went to UT AUSTIN in the 90s and made a lot of friends cause she knew how to check air pressure, radiator level, change a flat etc. raised on a farm she even knew how to drive a stick shift! they were amazed. she never ever told em she only knew how to drive a stick shift if it was on a tractor.
but you are so right. if they don't read it on their phones, it doesn't exist.
 

Boit4852

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You won't be gaining anything by trying to out-think Kawasaki. If their engines needed to be broken in the old fashioned way, that's what would would be in the manual.

The owner's manual for my Kawasaki engine says to change the oil every 100 hours of use and filter every 200 hours. In my opinion, that is beyond insanely stupid! These engines are subjected to extreme duty with heat and dirty environment. If you want to follow Kawasaki's maintenance schedule, that's your choice. I would never want to buy a used machine from you. I don't want to be disrespectful, but to believe that a manufacturer is 100% correct 100% of the time defies logic. It that were true, there would never be recalls.
 

Boit4852

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Actually mowers are cruder ruder & far more unsofisticated than any engine built after 1954.

Break in oil is thinner than running oil and has no anti corrosion addatives in it nor mush in the way of stabiizers as it is only meant to be in there for a short time.
Basically it is a one use really cheap oil.
As for not knowing , you are exactly right we are breeding the most pig ignorant useless arrogrant generations ever to walk the planet.
They don't need to know because the phone knows all.
We stopped teaching any useful science decades ago cause it was too difficult so the kids did not get a high enough mark to go to Uni and study economics & accounting, the stuff that is really important

In the late 1990's I dated a woman who drove a '88 Mustang. She called me at work one evening upset that 'something' happened to her engine as she's driving along the interstate. After a few questions, she said that her engine stopped running and a man stopped to help her and told her it had seized. I asked her if any warning lights on her dashboard had lit. 'Yes, a red light. What letters are in the center of that light? 'T E M P'. What does T E M P mean? 'Uuuuuh...temporary'. How long had it been lit? I' dunno, a few miles'. When it lit, why did you keep driving? 'Uhhh....because it was still running'. Of course the engine was destroyed. When I questioned her about her maintenance habits, she replied that didn't know about those things. Her philosophy was that if she turned the key and the engine started, she was good to go. Her life revolved around hair, clothes, and makeup. I kicked her to the curb. Pig ignorant!!
 

bertsmobile1

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The owner's manual for my Kawasaki engine says to change the oil every 100 hours of use and filter every 200 hours. In my opinion, that is beyond insanely stupid! These engines are subjected to extreme duty with heat and dirty environment. If you want to follow Kawasaki's maintenance schedule, that's your choice. I would never want to buy a used machine from you. I don't want to be disrespectful, but to believe that a manufacturer is 100% correct 100% of the time defies logic. It that were true, there would never be recalls.

Try reading it again.
I says to change the oil every X hours and the filter every Y hours OR MORE OFTEN IF RUNNING IN VERY DUSTY CONDITIONS.
So 100 & 200 hours are the MAXIMUM oil change intervals, not the minimum intervals.
The intervals also change according to the size of the machine.
Push mowers usually have oil changes at 50 hour intervals, 50 hours being around an annual average mowing hours for places where it does not snow.
As for filters the only reason for replacing them is to prevent them going onto bypass.
Most could happily run a thousand hours being that many of them are identical to those used on car engines that do 9000 rpm and run a lot leaner than a mower ever will .
 
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