17 years... it was a good run

-turner-

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Hi all,

Well... my 17-year old Lawn Boy Medallion is on its way out, I think... so this is a multi-part post:

First... what happened was that the drive wheels started "jamming". Going to post about that in another thread.

I've been looking and looking... two mowers in Home Depot stood out - a Toro "Personal Pace" ($400 with blade brake) and a Honda something-or-other for $700... and here's what I'd like that I'm not finding yet:

1) The Honda would be my choice if it weren't so hard to drop $700. No side discharge. I like the "standard" throttle controls...

2) The Toro looked ok, but I'm VERY wary of the "Personal Pace" system. Doesn't seem like it would work well on a bumpy yard (mine's got some pretty uneven parts) but based on reviews it looks like people are doing OK with it.

3) Is it old-school to like manual speed controls? If so... I'm old school, but I like my LB: lever throttle and speed, and a lift-up bail to engage the blade.

The blade brake is pretty important as my yard gets lots of debris from trees I often can't see until I'm near it.

I'd like your advice knowing these things... also, I'm in southern NJ and am open to a good used mower that will have these features and be reliable.

Other considerations welcome!

thanks,
Andrew
 

Arwing64

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Both Honda and Toro make great machines. I personally own several Toro push mowers and many of them work great. Choosing a push mower should be based on what you need to get the job done quickly and efficiently without any headaches.

First we'll start with the size of your yard. If you have a fairly small yard like in a small development, that you would really only need a 20 inch. In the middle you have 21 and 22 inch models, where you have a bigger variety of the types of mowers you can get. There is also a large 30" mower that Toro makes, and is a personal favorite of mine. Choose between needs and your budget.

Now we have to choose the self propelled system. First is the FWD, which is the most inexpensive option. It works great on flat ground and can work on small hills and some minor terrain. You also have the most maneuverability and is way more comfortably to turn since the front wheels are the only ones that move. However, they cannot climb steep hills or go over rough terrain because the wheels have a tendency to slip. Next we have the RWD. Slightly more expensive than the front wheel drive, the rear wheel drive models, provide better stability and control when going over hills or rough terrain, and does well on straight aways. Its maneuverability is lowered greatly since the rear wheels are in motion, so you would have to stop the propulsion, make your turn, and then re-engage the propulsion. With practice however, it gets a lot easier. Lastly, there are AWD models, which are relatively new. These are the most expensive option, but offers you the greatest stability on the roughest terrain or on steep hills. Maneuverability is in between the FWD and RWD. They are also great on straightaways.

The engine choice is usually a matter or personal preference but I would go with Briggs and Stratton. Thats just me. If you do get a Honda, your obviously getting a Honda.

The personal pace setup on Toro walk behind mowers work rather well. The faster you push, the mower will try to match your pace. To many it may seem a little cheap, and that was my first impression until I tried one and found out how well it worked. I do not think that anyone makes the manual speed selector for push mowers anymore. I used to have a Toro Super Recycler Pro II that had a 3 speed on it.

FWD Pros:Inexpensive, Excellent Maneuverability, Good for flat ground
Cons: Not good for hills or rough terrain

RWD Pros: Well balanced between FWD and AWD, Good for flat to moderate slopes or terrain
Cons: Difficult to maneuver

AWD Pros: Great Traction, Good for larger sloper and rougher terrain.
Cons: Expensive, maintenance, Slightly difficult to maneuver

Some mowers come with extra features that might make your mowing experience a lot better. Many today come out with a washout port, where you insert your garden hose into a plug and clean it while the mower is running. This works great with some mowers. Some have electric starters, where you just have a turn or a key. They are really handy, but keep in mind that the engine does not charge the battery, so you will have to charge it at least once a season.

Many mower have different discharge modes for different mowing conditions. Mowers can have a 3-in-1, a 2-in-1, are strictly muches. Toro mowers make it easy to quickly change from different modes. Pretty much every mower out there has the ability to mulch clippings. Some do it better than others. The Toro Mowers do this very well. This should only be done when the grass is no more than an inch taller than its cutting height. Mulching should not be done when the grass is wet, when there are leaves, or if the grass is too tall. This would bog the mower down and will cause great irritation. A side discharge is an option for 3-in-1 mowers. This is good for year round work. You can side discharge clippings if there is a lot of grass or if your lawn is super thick. A lot of mowers today have a bagging system, which will pick up clippings and put them into the bag. This will provide a much cleaner looking cut and is better for picking up leaves or lots of grass. You will have to go through the time of dumping the clippings somewhere, and the bags can fill up pretty quickly, especially when sucking up leaves. If you have a lot of leaves in your yard, I would recommend getting a leaf vacuum. Sucking them into those tiny bags is way to inefficient and irritating.
 

primerbulb120

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My Toro has the Personal Pace system. If the Toro you are looking at has the Personal Pace system, do not buy it.

1. The Personal Pace system is aggravatingly slow, and it you try to push it faster than its top speed, the mower will try to slow you down.
2. The engagement mechanism is too stiff, so instead of a "self propel" system, the mower has a "push assist" system, in which the mower only does half the work.
3. If you try to pull the mower backwards, its wheels will lock up and tear your lawn. This makes it very hard to mow in tight places.

By speeding up the engine's speed settings and adding a handle to bypass the engagement mechanism, I was able to solve the first two problems. The third still remains. As for engine brands, The Honda would be my choice. The gas tank of the Briggs and Stratton is shaped in such a way that gas must be put in very slowly to keep the tank from overfilling. The Honda has no such problem. Plus, aftermarket parts are more readily available for the Honda than for the Briggs and Stratton.
 

robert@honda

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Honda offers a number of models with manual throttle control and a blade-brake clutch (blade stops, engine keeps running). Honda calls their system Roto-Stop, and you'll find it on these models:

Honda HRR216VYA (list $579)
Honda HRX217VLA (list $749)
Honda HRX217VLA (list $799)
Honda HRX217HYA (list $829)
Honda HRX217HZA (list $899)

features_zps82a0a2cd.jpg


All other Honda models have a fixed-throttle (no manual control) and both the engine and blade stop/start at the same time.
 

Rivets

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My choice would be the Toro. Everything primerbulb said about the personal pace is due to improper setup. I'm 6'-4" and the Toro's I work on will out run me on any surface. It is NOT push assist, and lockup when trying to pull back, again is improper setup. The Honda is also good, but as you said $$$$$. My Toro 3-speed was manufactured in 1988, still going strong.
 

primerbulb120

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Rivets, I bought my Toro from an authorized Toro dealer, so I doubt that it was set up wrong. I took apart the gearboxes on the wheels to see if I could keep them from locking up, but I found that either it was a design issue, or a safety feature. There is no way to fix it, that is just the way it was built. You mentioned a Toro 3-speed. If it is a set speed transmission, it is not the Personal Pace. In my opinion, self propel is a system in which the mower pulls itself through the lawn without the user pushing the handle at all. There are mowers that do this. When you use the Toro Personal Pace, there is no way to mow without pushing the mower. There is actually a spring in the handle to make the mechanism stiffer and harder to engage. Specifications for my model say that it tops out at 4 mph - much slower than I like to mow.

My Toro was outperformed by a beat up Troy Bilt that I bought for $125.

Robert - If I were to buy another mower, I would either go with a Honda-powered Troy Bilt or a Honda. The gas tank of the Briggs and Stratton is shaped in such a way that gas must be put in very slowly to keep the tank from overfilling. The Honda has no such problem. Plus, aftermarket parts are more readily available for the Honda than for the Briggs and Stratton. Aftermarket parts are either rare or nonexistent for Kohlers.
 

Rivets

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Primer, I work for a Toro dealer and set up the PP mowers. Yours is properly if the wheels do not roll when pulled backwards. You need to loosen the PP cable to relieve press on the transmission. The spring on the handle you talk about is not adjustable, it is just a return spring to bring the handle back when you stop. I don't know of any gearboxes on the wheels. You just have a drive gear mounted to the shaft and a gear on the wheel. Obviously you don't know how the PP system works, all you need to do is start walking and the mower will move forward if adjusted properly. When the operator stops the mower stops moving forward, because the operator has released the tension on the transmission belt. I don't know how fast you mow, but no one has ever brought a PP mower back to me, saying it does not go fast enough. I have had customer ask me to set it to go slower, which can be done if you understand how it works.
 

primerbulb120

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You are correct, I do not know how the Personal Pace system works. However, the performance I am getting from it makes me think it should work differently.

1. I have a very awkwardly shaped lawn, and mowing it requires pulling the mower backwards.
2. I removed the spring in the handle because even one spring makes the handle harder to push down.

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/toro/20054_(250000001-250999999)(2005)_WW_17.gif According to the diagram, it appears that there are 20 various parts between the wheel and the mower besides the two gears which you mentioned.

As for mowing speed, I probably should not have purchased a self propelled mower. I will jog through my lawn if the mower will let me. I wear myself out trying to push the mower faster than its top speed of 4 mph, because as I stated before, if you push the mower faster than the self propel will go it will try to slow you down.

I mow my lawn with straight passes. Am I supposed to go in circles?
 

Rivets

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There is no self propel mower that will meet your needs while jogging. You said you don't understand the PP system, but continue to bad mouth it. That is totally unfair to the original poster and does not help him try to figure out which mower is best for his needs. Robert@Honda knows the Honda line and recommends them. I know the Toro line and recommend them. I think Robert will agree with me that both lines make good mowers and the OP will have to use the info we gave to help him make his decision. Your posts do nothing to help, because the mower you use is not setup properly and not being used the way it was designed to be used. I wish the OP good luck in his search and apologize to him to have to listen to your Fishy banter.
 

primerbulb120

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If you do not think that my mower is set up properly, please tell me how to adjust it so that it will perform better.
 
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