Billable Hours

KevIsland

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How would I find out the billable hours for a cam shaft replacement on a single cylinder Briggs 33R877-0008-G1.
 

StarTech

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Book time is 1Hr 30Min.
 

bertsmobile1

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When I kicked off I got my hands on a warranty repair scheduled fee book
Originally I billed these hours then eventually realised they were for nice new machines that were clean and being done in a workshop with every time saving special tool sitting within arms reach of the factory trained tech.
You can spend 1/2 hour just cleaning the mower enough to work on it .
Now I charge nearly double the scheduled fee , no one complains and I end up getting about $ 10 / hr actually spent on the job

There is a Tecumseh on on here https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/ which while not being B & S the times will be roughly the same engine type to engine type .
 

Hammermechanicman

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Like Bert said, the flat rate is for a clean machine in a well outfitted shop with every special tool known to man and includes no diagnostic time. No shop around me charges customer what the flat rate manual says. They charge the time the tech starts on it till they finish. The flat rape manual is for what dealer pays a tech. Not what a dealer will bill out to a customer.
 

bertsmobile1

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The afore mentioned Tecumseh manual also says 90 minutes for a large OHV single ( 14 to 18.5 Hp )
If you downloaded it then you would have noticed the * in the margin alerting you that it "might require R & R" so that adds another 60 minutes so now you are at 2.5 Hrs .
The companies down here who repower ride ons charge 4 hours for a strait engine swap, more if some "special fitting required " .
Stihl bless their helmet wearing hearts allow 15 minutes cleaning + 20 minutes for diagnosis .
The Stihl one is near impossible to work out because it breaks down the labour into tiny sections
Remove starter , remove blower, remove carburettor on manifold, remove carburettor alone etc etc etc.

It is a good idea when billing out your time to semi itemise
So if the mower was filthy and the owner brought it in for a service , rather than a repair
They get 1/2 hour cleaning the 1/2 hr diagnosis as the first 2 items in the labour section
The last item is always "test mow x minutes OK " , 1/2 hr for walk behinds & 1 hr for ride ons .
I am sort of lucky like this because the work shop is on a farm and I use customers equipment to do most of the mowing .
I get a lot of repairs in where the customer took the mower to a workshop, got it back & it was still not fixed.
Even then I get caught out
Just finished a warranty repair on a Billy Goat vacuum.
Ran a full tank through in the yard without a problem
Customer took it home &ran 5 minuets then it stopped
After multiple pull downs it finally twigged & I got him to bring the bag so the engine was under load .
After 5 minutes sucking up grass clippings from a pile waiting for composting it stopped .
Then undid the fuel cap and heard the big suck , a bad fuel cap
Prior to that it sat in the yard and ran through 2 full tanks of fuel without a hiccup .

So if you are being charged 4 to 6 hours that would not be unreasonable
Same if you are billing the time out.
 

StarTech

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I do forget techs can take 8 hours to do a 30 minute job as one of my customers found out when I was offline taking care of my mother with dementia which was a 24/7 jobs. He came by after the local JD charged him 8 hours of labor to change out a hydraulic K46 fan when all that had to be done was remove the battery to access the fan which I showed him.

Yes it take me up to 4 hrs but includes having to answer the phone and deal with walk-ins during the same time frame. Beside if I charge the 8 hrs at $100 that JD did I would be having the same complaints. Even at $45 it can get expensive when other work is required to be done. Inexperience techs don't get paid extra for being slow here.

When it comes to oils leaks there is usually extra time spent on cleanups which gets billed as additional labor time. Like the replacing of an oil seal that another shop failed to replace twice and customer ran the mower until there was gas and oil from front to back which made a 30 minute into a 4 hour job. That customer was a little ill about the cost until I explained why the charges were what they were.

I don't usually charge for cutting my own lawn with the customer's mowers. It usually needs it considering it is 6 acres.
 

cpurvis

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Broken bolts, stripped threads, or other such things that sometimes happen can blow the flat rate out of the water.
 

ILENGINE

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I do forget techs can take 8 hours to do a 30 minute job as one of my customers found out when I was offline taking care of my mother with dementia which was a 24/7 jobs. He came by after the local JD charged him 8 hours of labor to change out a hydraulic K46 fan when all that had to be done was remove the battery to access the fan which I showed him.

Yes it take me up to 4 hrs but includes having to answer the phone and deal with walk-ins during the same time frame. Beside if I charge the 8 hrs at $100 that JD did I would be having the same complaints. Even at $45 it can get expensive when other work is required to be done. Inexperience techs don't get paid extra for being slow here.

When it comes to oils leaks there is usually extra time spent on cleanups which gets billed as additional labor time. Like the replacing of an oil seal that another shop failed to replace twice and customer ran the mower until there was gas and oil from front to back which made a 30 minute into a 4 hour job. That customer was a little ill about the cost until I explained why the charges were what they were.

I don't usually charge for cutting my own lawn with the customer's mowers. It usually needs it considering it is 6 acres.
Sounds like one of those customers that brings in their mower and says that it runs for awhile and then dies. And you ask how long does it run before dying and they respond with 2 hours. And with that I might as well mow my lawn.
 

StarTech

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So far of the 30+ camshaft replacements on 310000 and 330000 series I had only one stripped screw on the crankcase cover and that was found while doing the thread cleaning procedure so I installed a Heli-coil. That particular screw was also leaking prior to disassembly. And it is clean job and one someone else has already screwed up. But most clean repairs are usually close to book times for a good tech to do.

When you got to deal other techs and DIYers that don't what a torque wrench you are going to find things like this. And yes on rare occasions there will additional work to be done because of a factory screw up. The book time is only for actual camshaft replacement along with the simple engine removal. It is just a guideline but I do find to fairly close to what is needed when you got the proper tools and knowledge. Yes the inexperience will a lot longer but it is an incentive to get better.

Heck the first time removal the rear axle assembly from a Cam Am it took me over 4 hrs without a service manual but a week later it only took an hour to do the same thing as I had to re-clock the drive shafts. In the coming weeks I got a Kubota RTV that gets a new u-joint which will be fun without the special three point jack. (just waiting on the aftermarket parts) Even that will take less than half the time it did the first time. This is where experience pays off.

One of my peeves is techs using SAE in place of Metric fasteners or vice-versa making a heck of a mess at times. DIYers are the worst at this. Just dealt with a Briggs engine that someone ran the 10 mm Kawasaki crankshaft screw up into the 7/16 hole and cross thread the heck out of it. I got lucky on it as it every second thread that got screwed. I most didn't get the 10mm out due the dang red lock tight use on top of things. Yes I charge extra for fight that problem.
 
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